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first time doing live edge

Started by petefrom bearswamp, December 26, 2018, 04:27:22 PM

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petefrom bearswamp

I have these 2 cherry slabs that I planed today and want to make benches.


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I am going to use Kevin's Legrite legs.
First question, bark on or bark off.
Cherry bark is very rough, but how can I take the bark off easily if I want to.
Next taper up as on the left one or taper down as on the right.
I took a wire brush to the bark on a sample to smooth it somewhat and sprayed with spar urethane and it looks OK to me.



 

Next should I use tongue oil, or spar varnish for finish or perhaps you fellows or gals have other suggestions.
Also I was rather disappointed as MC is still at 14-16 percent after being cut in the summer 0f 2016 and stickered in my pole building with good air circulation.
Any help you can give is appreciated
Pete
>
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Bruno of NH

Pete
I remove the bark with a small drawknife.
I put the wide part of the slab down for a bench.
I use spar varnish cut 50/50 with mineral spirts.i flood the surface with it then wipe it with a clean white rag.I buff between coats with synthetic steel wool.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Brad_bb

Draw knife, then orbital sander on the live edge. 
Are these going to be indoor or outdoor benches?  If indoor I'd use a water based urethane.  I love the general finish line of products.  If indoor you can also finish with an oil.  Besides being indoor or outdoor, choice also depends on if you want it slick or not.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

low_48

If you would have asked about the bark last year, removal would have been a dream. Very easy to remove fresh bark. Now you will need a draw knife. Are these going to live outside in the weather? 14-16 is close to a normal air dried moisture level. You can't get 6-8% sitting in a pole building.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Bruno of NH on December 26, 2018, 07:07:31 PMI put the wide part of the slab down for a bench.

+1 on that.  When you sit on something, you want a curved edge for your thighs to rest on, not a sharp edge.  On a table top, you might do the reverse to maximize the surface area but would still want to break over the edge a little for a pleasing feel.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Magicman

Personally I would leave the bark on.  You can always take it off but you can't put it back on.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Downstream

I started out using spar urethane for outdoor pieces, but found if they were constantly exposed to sun/moisture then the urethane fails between year 1 and 2 and starts to flake off.  This forces a complete sand to bare wood process that is no fun at all before re-applying the finish.  Lately I have been using timber oil made by thompsons.  Still fades over time but does not flake/peel so re-fnishing is much easier.  I use the natural or clear version.  I agree with others on bench in putting wide edge down.  As far as bark goes to each his own.  I generally take it off on my stuff because I only air dry so I always find live critters under the bark when draw knifing it off.  By the way those will make beautiful benches.
EZ Boardwalk Jr,  Split Second Kinetic logsplitter, Granberg Alaskan Chainsaw Mill, Stihl 660 and 211, Logrite 60" cant hook, Dixie 32 Tongs

doc henderson

hey Bruno.  What is synthetic steel wool?  Scotch bright?  We have done live edge with spar poly but only on things outside intermittently, or if we do not mind rugged look.  It depends on what it is used for and if it has to remain pristine.  If you want the bark on, some will eventually come loose and you can just glue it back on.  Tite bond 3 can sub for the cambium layer.  Flat surfaces are tough like tables and benches.  They hold the water and tend to get lots of sunlight.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

YellowHammer

We most often take the bark off, just because I don't like running barky slabs with embedded dirt through our planer.  It will dull the knives as fast as it dulls a sawblade.

We remove bark very quickly with the claw of a hammer.  Turn the slab wide side up, aim the claw a little outside the cambium layer and whack it.  We can debark pallets of slabs pretty quickly this way.  The claw will usually dislodge the bark easily, or dig in where it can be levered off.    

Then I prefer to burnish the naked slab edge with the palm of a heavy leather glove.  Rubbing vigorously with the glove on will quickly smooth out and burnish the edge, without causing any damage to the delicate surface.  Then I will take a little 220 grit and ease the sharp edge and remove any splinters.  I have used a 1/4" radius ball guide router bit for this, too.

When we do bark on, I flood the bark with polyurethane, paint it on thick, but not the slab itself.  The object is to make the bark into a piece of plastic. So that when or if it falls off later, it can be glued back on.  Then I'll continue to urethane the slab for a final finish.  I don't really do much bark on though.  

Since we prefer to finish with an oil and wax, I can't plasticize the bark with urethane, so that's another reason I claw hammer th bark it off.  It's very therapeutic.  

The Legrite legs are great, use the proper screws, either from Legrite or from Lowes or Home D.  They sell them. Even though then screws are self tapping, I still like to predrill, if nothing more than because I like to mock the bench on the legs, and sit on it, look at it, and make sure it looks right before I attach them.  After everything looks right, I reach under and drill a couple pilot holes, and then move the whole thing to the work take where I flip it upside down and attach the legs, using the pilot holes as guides.  

Cherry will darken considerably with age so if you use a dark oil it will turn a few shades darker over time.  Our customers and I generally also prefer to cut the raw oil with 50% paint thinner or mineral spirits to really drop its viscosity so it will soak and seep into the wood deeply.  Then extremely lightly sand with 220 to remove the oil off the parrallel grain while not going so deep as to remove it from the direction changing figured grain. That way there is two coats of oil in the curly or figured grain, while only one coat on the parrallel grain.  
Add a second coat of thinned oil and the figure will really pop.

I'm a big fan of paste wax, we have a bench that's been in our showroom for a couple years now and I can't tell you how many rear ends have sat and polished it up.  It still looks great, except where I left a coffe cup on it over night and it left a ring. Oops.

Anyway, this is how we do it, maybe some of this will be useful for you. Heres a picture of a bark-off maple bench I did using this technique.  


Here's me sitting in it at the end of a long day, among the other wood we sold, I think we sold 27 live edge slabs that day, I was tuckered out. 




YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

doc henderson

I have done several indoor benches for wedding gifts.  Wood burn the names in the font from the invite and of course put the date on so the man does not forget his anniversary.  I usually use a cut off and square up the ends (chainsaw/chop saw) and sides (sawmill) and leave bark in what will be the underside.  Half inch round over on all flat surfaces.  You can sand a bit of an arc to the top much like a road to help the water run off. I have a Mikita 4 inch hand power planer I use to flatten the surfaces.I will try to add a few pics later.  
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WDH

I use pure tung oil mixed 50:50 with 100% clear mineral spirits. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

petefrom bearswamp

Thanks everyone lots of food for thought.
14 to 16 % is probably normal although I usually get 12 in my Hemlock and pine 4/4.
Not sure yet whether they will be inside or outside benches.
Yellowhammer what do you consider to be the proper screws?
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Bruno of NH

Doc synthetic steel wool/scotch brite pads.
I would use grk screws with washer heads no.10 or bigger.
YH I also use paste wax buffed in with the synthetic pads.Then buffed with clean white rags.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

WDH

Pete,

The 1/4" bronze exterior construction lag screws shown here. 

https://ritelegco.com/Category/hardware
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

xlogger

I bet you rear end hurt also sitting on your thick wallet at the end of the day. smiley_biggrin01
I messed up on this post it goes to YH post showing him sitting down at the end of the day after selling all those slabs in one day.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

WDH

Sitting on that thick wallet will cause back problems  :)  
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

scsmith42

 



Good advice from others in this thread.

My comments.

1 - be sure to finish all sides of the slab - same number of coats of same finish.  If you only finish the top side, you may end up with a cupped slab over time.

2 - be sure to use legs that have slotted holes to allow the slab to expand and contract a bit.

3 - I prefer hanger bolts for attachment.  These are fasteners where one end looks like a lag thread, and the other end looks like a normal machine thread.  Install them in the center of the slots so that the wood can go either way.

4 - if used outdoors use a good marine varnish or exterior finish.  Epifanes is a great marine varnish, and General Finishes 450 is a great exterior finish.

5 - if you use an oil based poly expect it to develop a yellow tint in a few years.

6. As other have advised, put the wide part down.

7 - if the bark is still tight after 2 years it may stay in place if you soak it with finish.  If it's starting to loosen up, a bark spud is a good start followed by a draw knife.  A wire cup brush on a hand held grinder does great work of cleaning up the surface below the bark.

The photo above is of a 20' long bench that we made a couple of years ago. Finish is Heritage Natural Finish Original Landark Finish.   It's an inside bench.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Brad_bb

I've used the Epifanes water thin epoxy on bark, multiple coats that soak in.  It's what is sometimes used to fill rot to firm it up.  I want to make the bark one solid piece so you don't get any flaking, and you want it to soak through to bond it to the slab.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

petefrom bearswamp

So far, claw hammer, and draw knife as I want the bark gone.
Both work and then wire cup brush to remove the rest, seems to burnish slightly too.
I hope to sell these and will finish appropriately for exterior use.
Thanks everyone.

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WV Sawmiller

Doc,

   Pretty benches. Did you put them back on the mill to cut the legs all off at the same length and angle? That works well for me. Only thing is mine don't have the same quality of finish work you display on yours.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

doc henderson

thanks.  i have done it with rubber bands with line levels on them, marked and used a pull saw.  also made a jig with 2 square pieces of plywood 16 inches square.  fastened at 90 degrees to each other to cut all legs 16 inches up from top of seat (with bench upside down on flat surface) to make cuts same length and parallel with floor.  scoot the jig up next to the bench and leg and use the 2 surfaces to guide the saw.  sorry no pic to better explain this way.



 

You are correct and I would do some on the sawmill but don't want the clamp to damage the side of the bench.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

We have made some thing for the ride for hope in our area to auction off for charity for about 7 years.  The big double wide cedar book matched cookie bench brought 750 dollars. :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WV Sawmiller

   Pretty nice technique. I don't think I have ever seen that done but glad it worked for you. If you use the sawmill you could pad the clamps. Mine are live edge and not much to worry about damaging. Besides I do the final sanding and tung oil application after the legs have been cut to height. On my 2" thick benches the leg extends through the bench and I cut the excess off there on top with a Japanese pull saw then use the mill for the bottoms. Again, your finish work is far superior to what I do.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

doc henderson

Thanks again.  I have a wood jig I use to secure logs upright to cut cookies and have thought about trying it.  i worried if the legs got to vibrating, it might all fly off the mill.  I don't like to start over.  Sound like you do it about like I do.  I use tongue oil on walnut al the time and sometimes the watco finishing wax.  I use a lot of spray spar poly.  Helmsman comes in gallons and spray cans.  rough stuff i start with brushing to fill then a final few coats with a spray gun after sanding,  for the little stuff I use the rattle cans.  this is walnut with a coat of Watco danish oil mad for my wife for Christmas




 


Sorry if I am overdoing the pics, finally figured out how to get them in the gallery from my phone :P
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WDH

That is a cookie love seat ;). 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

petefrom bearswamp

Nice stuff doc.
I hope to have mine done by week's end and will post pics.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Ljohnsaw

Doc, what is that walnut thing with the 5 big and 4 small holes you made for your wife?  I can't figure it out.  But the wood sure is pretty!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

doc henderson

Thanks Gents!  That is a tea light holder and a place to put nick nacky decorations like pine cones and small bulbs or marbles depending on the season.  Put a runner under it and wah la, your wife is happy.  The pic is sideways on our table.  Just to the Right is a more rustic one just for tea lights out of old barn siding.  My wife made runners out of old gunny sacks for her sister and sister-in-law.  The one in the middle is on rags since it was just finished with watco danish oil.  She had stuff in it with a red Christmas runner for Chrstmas, but I did not have that pic.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

petefrom bearswamp

Well here we are 6 weeks later and finally finished.
bottom 2 coats of Man O War spar varnish, top and ends 4 coats 220 in between.
Tammie and Kevins Rite Leg underpinning attached with 1/4" x 2" const. screws.



 

 

The bark off one was very hard to do as the bark was really tight and thick.
I used the claw hammer method followed by wire brush.
The bark on one is partially removed with my wire cup brush and i stopped when this pattern emerged, but it is hard to see because of the glare.
They are 2-1/2 thick and HEAVY.
I'm hoping to get more efficient if I do more of these.
The bark off one had a slight rocker to it so had to shim the legs.
If I am so foolish as to make this an ongoing winter project I will try the router method of flattening.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

doc henderson

pete, that looks great.  I think even if you do it the same way you will get faster and more efficient.  partly cause you can't really screw up rustic.  I know some mentioned to put the edge bark up, but I usually put mine down to give a wider top surface, but i round over the sharp edge with a 1/2 " round over.  many of mine as you can see also have 5 flats with a 1/2 round bottom with or without bark.  depends on if the bark is tight and the look you are going for. If the bark is or becomes loose, I have glued it back with titebond 1 or 3, and pinned with 23 g pins. if I put it up, I would remove the bark so it does not scratch legs.  people in shorts and or kids.

What up Benches?
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

WV Sawmiller

   Looking back at the start of this thread (I can't go back far enough to insert the quote here) from Bruno and LJohnsaw I saw comments about putting the wide side down so you have a round surface to rest your thighs on. I usually try to do that, especially on ash so the EAB tracks show, but actually I just select the best surface to display and sometimes that has the wide side up. I think I saw somewhere that someone did not like the sharp edge up but seems to me it does not make mush difference as the sharp edge is rolled under and does not cut into your leg anyway IME. I guess we just have to be flexible.

  Nice bench there Pete. I am really impressed with the quality of the finish work. Keep up the good work.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 27, 2018, 06:06:00 PM
Quote from: Bruno of NH on December 26, 2018, 07:07:31 PMI put the wide part of the slab down for a bench.

+1 on that.  When you sit on something, you want a curved edge for your thighs to rest on, not a sharp edge. 
Howard, I am curious about your "(I can't go back far enough to insert the quote here)" comment?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

Lynn,

When I start to reply to a thread it opens a new "page" for me type on and I can scroll to the bottom of and click on the "Insert Quote" button to add the text I am replying to but if it is a long thread over multiple pages I just reach some point where I can't go back further so that is the end for me. If I have not yet reached the comment I can't access the button. I don't see any way to go back further

 Okay this disappeared - I deleted too much. Was Doc's post of 31 Dec at 10:09

 For example in this thread this is the last comment I can access. If there is a way to get further back I am willing to try (Although as I have said before for me to learn something new I have to clear some space on my mental hard drive and my wife's birthday is Thursday so I hope that is not what I end up forgetting).
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

High-lite and click on the quote bubble first, or click on quote if you want the entire post.  The quoted text will automatically open up a posting window even if it is several pages back.  ;D

If I want to attach multiple quotes, I may have to open another tab, open the FF, and then do some copy & paste back to the original tab.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

doc henderson

MM is a master sawyer and a computer genius!!! 8)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

petefrom bearswamp

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

WV Sawmiller

Lynn (And others who PM'd me),

    Thanks. I will keep that in mind next time this issue comes up.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Bruno of NH

Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

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