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Neeman Chisel

Started by BCsaw, December 21, 2014, 12:47:23 AM

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BCsaw

I am looking at acquiring a Neeman chisel. I was wondering if somebody has purchased their products. Just wanted to know how their service was. Were you happy with the ordering process and their tools?

Thanks.
Inspiration is the ability to "feel" what thousands of others can't!
Homebuilt Band Sawmill, Kioti 2510 Loader Backhoe

Rait

I bought 1.5 inch framing chisel (not beveled). As I live next to Latvia the whole submitting order, paying and receiving the chisel took about week and half or so, the shipping costs was about 10 euro (15$ or so). The chisel was (very) properly sharpened and leather sheath included.

If you live in US, most likely used tool from Jim Rogers is more economical, however I live close by and I do like their marketing approach and don't mind paying few euros more if it feels "right thing" to me. I'd say you get high end tool for premium money (though $ difference without shipping is not That much), no problems with service, and I am planning to buy 1 inch chisel from them too.
Circular saw, chainsaw, drill, non electric hand tools.

MattJ

Not sure if you mean john neeman tools or autine the shop where john neeman is now at (he also supported the forum with a few auctions). I just posted a broadaxe I ordered and received from Autine. It's a bit of a wait but it's art in steel. You can't go wrong with him, if you need it quick though get ahold of Jim Rogers as his antique tools are top notch. He sold me a framing chisel that's pure love in a tool.

123maxbars

I have two John Neeman draw knifes, corner chisel, mallet and slick. Great products and worth the money when you figure in how they are crafted.  I will post a pic later of them. 
Sawyer/Woodworker/Timber Harvester
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Jeff

Yes, get them from Autine that is actually John Neeman, John Neeman company is not.
http://www.autinetools.com/en/articles/John-Neeman-leaving-Neemantools
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

BCsaw

Well there you go.......I learned something today! Thanks for the heads up on the business change. ;D
Inspiration is the ability to "feel" what thousands of others can't!
Homebuilt Band Sawmill, Kioti 2510 Loader Backhoe

Roger Nair

There is another side to the Neeman vs Autine story.

http://www.neemantools.com/en/about-us/story

Judge for yourself.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

Dave Shepard

If I was going to buy one, then I would buy it from the talent, not the marketing agency. ;)

None of the Neeman or Autine tools that I have seen have the finish of an antique American tool. There is certainly the potential for them to be good, but they have fallen short by just a smidge. If you are going to copy the American design, you need to follow through.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jeff

Let me help this along with the only truth that matters here on the Forestry Forum.  Autine is the company that supported the forum. Janis Nimanis, who also goes by the Americanized name, John Neeman made a series of axes to donate in thanks for this forum's help we gave in a time of trouble he had when hurt in an accident while working for the company John Neeman whose name was derived from his. We helped without expectation because it was the thing to do. He decided he wanted to do something for a way of "paying it forward."  He did this of his own accord simply because he is the man he is.  You go ahead and believe what ever side you want, but this is the fact in regards to the Forestry Forum and how it has been supported by our friend Janis.

I put my loyalty in actions and personal associations, not on second hand stuff I read on web pages.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Dave Shepard

Quote from: Dave Shepard on December 23, 2014, 01:44:08 PM
If I was going to buy one, then I would buy it from the talent, not the marketing agency. ;)

None of the Neeman or Autine tools that I have seen have the finish of an antique American tool. There is certainly the potential for them to be good, but they have fallen short by just a smidge. If you are going to copy the American design, you need to follow through.

I would like to clarify that it was the chisels that I thought that needed a little refinement, in particular, the sweep along the back, which could be considered a subjective complaint. The axes were really spectacular, and at some point I would like to buy a hewing axe. Maybe even a goosewing, if I had extra money to spend.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Magicman

Quote from: Roger Nair on December 23, 2014, 12:52:17 PM
Judge for yourself.
It just so happened that I had ordered my Carpenters Axe just before Janis (John) was burned.  I was dealing directly with Jakob (Jacob) and corresponded many times by email with him. (and I still have them)  No blacksmithing work could be or was done until John recovered.  Jacob only did the handles (carpentry). 

Yes, the stories are different, but the real story is not as Jacob relates.  I know, I was dealing and corresponding with him.

Here is a copy of an email that Jacob sent to me relating to John's accident:

Thanks Lynn for your humanity.

If you wish to help John donating him - the amount you wish to donate will of course cover the expenses and the shipping of the axe you ordered. The engraving can also be done by your wish. Thanks to God John is getting better.

We will make the axe for you as soon as the John will stand on his feet.

Donation can be done in our paypal account. It is my email address: logjacob@gmail.com.

Thank you very much from John and me for your support in that situation.

All the best

Jacob


Yes, I will judge for myself.
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BCsaw

Dave, can you expand a little more on what YOU like to see. I read a post recently where you mentioned that a particular chisel was not to your liking because of the back. You had said it was because it was used so much for paring. Is this the case here?

I am interested in different points of view, as I do not have the hours behind the chisels as some on here.
I have a few vintage chisels and am pleased with their performance. But, I think hearing different and personal points of view help someone like me to relate in the future.

Does anybody have favourite brands as far as vintage chisels? Why?

I know a fellow that swears by his PS & W chisels.

In the end, no matter what I buy, I feel that I am at a disadvantage as I can't try them first. I believe that we all gravitate to something different at times for different reasons.

Tools are like guns. We have our favourites for different reasons. When I shoulder mine, it is like coming home. Comfortable, familiar and predictable.

Thanks for the input so far. :)

AL.
Inspiration is the ability to "feel" what thousands of others can't!
Homebuilt Band Sawmill, Kioti 2510 Loader Backhoe

Jeff

I too had plenty of contact with Janis during those times, I also have some emails with details that I promised not to share.  I do know that when he was hurt, no tools were produced. That kind of throws a wrench into some of the stories.  Also, plenty an article was written about the original partnership such as this one:
http://www.humansinvent.com/#!/9326/the-birth-of-a-handmade-tool/

Everything that comes from Janis coincides with events we watched unfold, and a few we were connected to. Some of the other stuff out there seem to have several contradictions. I've seen the jab at Autine on another topic here. I decided then I'd let it alone, that everyone has an opinion but when it came up again here, it was time to put that to bed. So, goodnight on this part of the topic.

Carry on with the almighty chisel information. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Dave Shepard

BCsaw, I like to have a sweep along the length of a framing chisel or slick. Most European chisels, as well as the Barr chisels, are machined very flat. If that is what you are used to, then they feel right. I do a lot of paring with my chisels when cleaning up a mortise or finishing a tenon, so I prefer to have that little bit of sweep on the back. I don't doubt the quality of the chisel as far as workmanship and the heat treatment of the steel. I'm not in the position to buy any tools right now, but I would love to send Janis detailed drawing with photos of some of the old Witherby chisels I have to see if he would make them like that. I fully support the Autine story and Janis. ;)

There are quite a few names in old timber framing tools that people like to collect. I have Swan, Witherby, PS&W/PEXTO, and a few others. The most important thing in my mind is to have the file test done on any used chisel that you want to buy. If you can mark the hardened steel on a framing chisel with a steel (not diamond) file, it will not hold an edge. Most people don't want to do that, but if the steel is properly hardened, then it won't mark the edge. If it does mark the edge, then the chisel needs to be heat treated again. I have a few beautiful framing chisels that have a lot of length left to them, but won't hold an edge. There are a number of reason a chisel might be soft. I think that overheating from machine grinding is the number one culprit. Some people think that the tool steel is not hardened all the way back from the cutting edge, and that eventually you wear away the hardened part which is plausible. It's also possible that it was never properly heat treated in the beginning.
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Roger Nair

I would like to expand on Dave's point on vintage chisels.  Socket framing chisels were produced in two different fashions laminated and solid steel, with laminated as the less expensive, not inferior, and more popular.  I have a few old solid steel chisels and they have a fairly flat blade.  The laminated chisels are to a various degrees sweeping.  The reason behind the sweep has perhaps both design and material properties as factors.  The material property to keep in mind is that a lamination is a bimetal construction of wrought iron body with carbon steel bit.  So if the chisel is forge welded flat, when quenched, the iron and steel contract at different rates leaving a curved blade.  The resulting blade has desirable character for the workman.  In performance, imo, the curve has a subtle effect on heavy mallet blows by introducing a counter force to the chisel tip that will tend to dig in with a straight blade.   So I have found a curved blade to be more controllable than a straight blade.

The second feature of sweep is that it offsets the handle, sometimes enough to allow paring cuts with tip parallel  to the surface without interference form the socket and handle.  I have found that a minority of laminated chisels have sufficient sweep to make good paring chisels. 

A third character i find valuable is taper in width in tip to heel, I just checked a random sample of seven chisels and the difference in width varies in the range of .03 to .05 inches.  The advantage here is the old framing chisels are less likely to jam while deeply mortising.

So by my use and experience I find the well made old chisels more artfull and subtle in design than to modern alternative.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

Dave Shepard

The tool steel in a laminated chisel has a high coefficient of expansion than the wrought iron. When you quench the chisel, it will actually bend in the opposite direction, as some of the blacksmiths in my group have found out. Most of the sweep I have seen was much more than you would get just from quenching anyway. I much prefer sockets to tangs.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

MattJ

From being a recent customer of Janis and Autine I can pass along he and his family/friends that work with him are superb people who really care a lot about their customers and the quality of what they are building.  Also you can see from his facebook posts he happily takes on custom jobs and likes to learn about different types of tools.  If you are serious about getting a different design from him send him an email, I'm sure he would be interested.  You'll just have to exercise a little patience as the list of customers is getting long, but he will be upfront and honest on the wait.  Any questions feel free to PM me.

Matt

Magicman

Here is a video of John building one of the axes that Jeff described above that John donated to the Forestry Forum:
http://vimeo.com/64534154
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Roger Nair

Quote from: Dave Shepard on December 24, 2014, 12:05:58 PM
The tool steel in a laminated chisel has a high coefficient of expansion than the wrought iron. When you quench the chisel, it will actually bend in the opposite direction, as some of the blacksmiths in my group have found out. Most of the sweep I have seen was much more than you would get just from quenching anyway. I much prefer sockets to tangs.

I cannot account for the blacksmith experience but material property data indicates an opposite result.  The vintage chisels supposedly used wrought iron (close to pure iron) or simple mild steel (carbon iron alloy with scant trace metal alloy) and cast steel or a simple iron carbon alloy, so I'll present CTE data on pure iron, mild 1020 steel and high carbon 1095 steel.  The higher the carbon content the lower the CTE.

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=654ca9c358264b5392d43315d8535b7d

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet.aspx?matguid=10b74ebc27344380ab16b1b69f1cffbb&ckck=1

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=8bab8f67515740b0af82c9b119259b80
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

Dave Shepard

Regardless of the CTE, the shape of a chisel or slick is deliberate. You would sell a tool shaped the way you wanted it shaped. If it moved during quenching, you would account for that in the forging.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

123maxbars

I got my tools from Neemantools, not Autine.  I purchased two draw knifes, one for chair making and the other for log peeling. I also got their corner chisel, mallet made from Elm and Slick. The only tool not in the picture is the slick. These are great tools that I have been using since March of this year.  They hold an edge very well and are easily honed.  Regardless of the story on the name origin, I am sure both companies make great tools. I am completely satisfied with mine and felt they where worth the asking price. You couldn't go wrong with anyone of the makers,

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Woodmizer LT70 Super Wide, Nyle L53 and 200 kiln, too many other machines to list.
outofthewoods
Youtube page
Out of the

BCsaw

Thanks for the input everybody. I love to hear others opinions and experiences. Always something new to learn.

:new_year: :new_year:
Inspiration is the ability to "feel" what thousands of others can't!
Homebuilt Band Sawmill, Kioti 2510 Loader Backhoe

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