iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Who do you sell to?

Started by KjBarnwood, April 04, 2008, 01:47:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

KjBarnwood

I am just getting goning on cutting the new logs (barnwood before) and was wondering who do you all sell to.  I'm going to produce large amounts so I assume big companies are out of the question.  I really don't want to deal with the guy who comes out and sorts through a whole stack just to get one board. 

Cabinet makers? 

I'd like to cut and stack and once I get a certain amount sell it off.

Any suggestions?

Keith

beenthere

Finding the buyers before investing in producing the lumber....would be the safest.

Have you investigated local cabinet shops?

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

KjBarnwood

That's kinda where I'm at now, looking for places to go and investigate.  I guess I'm just kinda looking for ideas of places (types of businesses) I should go to.

As for the product, it will be sporadiclly coming in.

Ron Wenrich

You might want to describe your operation a little bit.  If you're cutting barn timbers into lumber, then I would suggest you look at something like flooring as one possibility.  I know of some guys who have produced some pretty decent product like that.  You would have to go an extra step, but the value added might be well worthwhile.

One problem that can come out of barn beams is that you are dealing in a lower quality of wood.  Usually, the beams were made from the hearts, and that's where most of the defect is at.  A lot would depend on how old the beams are and the species of wood. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

solidwoods

You invest in logs/labor before you have a customer base?
Is this a new American business concept?
(just pulling your leg).

Before you mill you need to know how to dry properly (unless you mill others logs and leave only).
Putting lumber on sticks doesn't dry wood that a woodworker would want to purchase.
Air drying wood is harder than kiln drying.
Most pro Woodworkers aren't interested in 15%mc air dried lumber, and if you find one that is,, be carefully because you may be blamed for future lumber physics.

So how to make $ from saw milling?
Saw other peoples logs.  That is the no inventory lumber answer.

If you saw your own logs then you have to sell each slice.
Sell all the green slices together = less $
Sell some green and some "Value added" (to quote others "new" concept) lumber products and make a few more $.

Your business model depends on more info-
You want to mill only or further process the wood into products?
Have your own logs or purchase (and having your own logs isn't a big $ maker)?
Got other woodworking tools?
How many people working?

I think some of the best $ made from cutting the least amount of lumber comes from kiln drying and making flooring/molding/wallboards/KD grade lumber. 
#3 grade cuttings (cull your #3 into flooring cuts+drops) goes to air dried and makes outdoor furniture.
That does require more tools/brain though.  So it depends on your assets/business direction.
jim



Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

woodmills1

here is a list of potential customers for air dried or green native wood


high school shop.....most are on bid/PO

dump truck sides.....if you price right you can get much of this market

trailer decking....ditto

horse fence.....wish everyone needed these

steel companies for dunnage

garden centers.....display stands, garden benches, pergelas(sp)

a few local woodworkers or contractors who understand air dried lumber
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Kelvin

Howdy,
Assuming you are kiln drying your lumber, i've found cabinet makers to be impossible to please.  My local guys have not bought one thing from me in 10 years.  Here is what they want in general by me.  The absolute most perfect, consistant wood, dimensioned to say 1x6" or some consistant size, delievered in a day or less in 500-1,000 bd ft lifts for the cheapest amount possible.  We have many wholesalers around me that are willing and able to deliever, mostly for free, most places in the state exactly that.  Prices are about 1/2 of retail and material is S4S and mostly perfect factory made stuff, maybe sent through a wide belt sander.  Right now they can buy, last i checked, red oak (which most still use predominately) for about $1.25 a bd ft as delievered above.  I can't, and don't want to compete with these guys.  I compare this to competing with walmart if you were to open a little store.  WHy would they go with you unless you can deliever a better product for less money?  Its very hard.  THey have their sources already for many years.  I've called and talked with many cabinet makers.  They are also extremly concerned with consistancy.  Many have said they've bought from small guys who burned the bridges.  They will only buy exactly 6% MC lumber... and so on.  I'm not saying there isn't a way, but its been impossible for me so i've had to explore other avenues. 

If you don't have a kiln, building things is a good idea.  Garden sheds and what not.  Its amazing how much low grade wood you get stuck with being a small mill. You will produce lots of No. 2's and 3's when sawing lumber, think about where to go with this or it will pile up around your neck.  I know, i've got piles around my neck!!!  People seem to pay about $.25 a bd ft for this type material in my neck of the woods.  Which is about my cost, so i've been leaving in the cant and piling them up.  better to not even saw then make more work for myself.  Which brings me to log supply.

Its amazing how perfect logs need to be to make any amount of yeild, unless you persue weird things, which i recommend, like spalted maple, and other non-commerical wood.  THis is my only niche market so far and i have to deal with the little guys coming out and looking at one board.  I'm a little guy and you will find this out when you do get calls from big guys. 

"yes, i'd like your price on S4S cherry in 10' lengths, 1,000 bd ft for tomorrow delievery."
Me...  " ha!"
Him "oh, well i guess i won't be calling you again" 
Me.... ' i didnt' think you would, sorry" 
(not actually what i say for you literal types out there)

Good luck, this is a good place for ideas.  Explore them all.
Kelvin

bandmiller2

A market is the fly in the ointment,you need a nitch.Value added is usally good, say tool houses ,develop a simple plan for one a dimension you can haul on a small trailer.When things are slow on the mill use inventory to build and rotate your stock.Precut pieces a pneumatic nailgun they  go up like mushrooms.Give them to local garden centers with your name on them or let the center be the dealer. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

metalspinner

Just had a thought as a small time wood customer...

Most woodworkers shy away from green or AD lumber because they do not understand how to dry.  Including the small garden sheds mentioned above, why not design and sell small solar kilns to dry small loads..say 500-600BF? The material cost in a solar kiln would be just as small as a garden shed. Small enough to pull onto a trailer and deliver to the customers house. Have one or two on display in the log yard, and teach them how to use it.  That way, they can have their dry lumber and will use you to fill it back up when neccesary.  You know how most people are... they talk about building a kiln, but for some reason never get around to it.  You can even have a "buy back" plan for when they are done with it.  They get lots of dry material for a small investment in the kiln and you cultivated a working relationship with a customer.  The single biggest contributing tool to my woodworking shop is the solar kiln that I built 5 years ago. ;)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

WDH

If you cut standard vanilla lumber, the big guys will kill you.  You cannot compete with their cost structure.  For example, my company has many mills cutting pine dimension lumber (2 x material) for general construction.  Our biggest mills cut 1,000,000 board feet per day.  Nope, that is not a typo, that is 1 million feet per day, and they do that every day for 250 days per year. 

The larger users of lumber want the consistency and predictability of delivery from one of the large producers that sell tractor trailer minimum volumes to get the lowest cost.

You have to find a way to add value to compete, and that means having some type of competitive edge.  Developing a niche market is one way to do that.  What would be your niche? 

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Well put WDH.  In other words, "Sad, but true."
:'(
Too bad, really, 'cuz that "vanilla lumber" does smell good when you saw it.
;D
Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

ARKANSAWYER


  I sell to;

   North Pacfic Lumber
   Armstrong Flooring
   Giles & Kendall
   Thompson Industries
   Ozark Timbers and Treating
   American Cedar
   And any ole soul who comes through the gate.  One board or a tractor trailer load it makes us no never mind.  I will cut a board in half just so long as you buy one board.  It can be Southern Yellow Pine, red oak, white oak, walnut, cherry, ash, sickymore, hacked berry, osage, hickory, gum red or black, sassy, cottonwood, Eastern red cedar, maple hard or soft and any other DanG log we can get our paws on.  Flatsawn or quartersawn, thick or thin up to 32 ft long and as large as the logs will allow us to cut.  Your logs or mine either way suits us just fine.
ARKANSAWYER

Cedarman

In very general terms there are 2 markets we sell to.  One is the high end specialty markets, custom markets  in other words.  These people want certain sizes, lengths, thickness, dryness, planed, T&G etc.  They are looking to supply their needs, price is almost always secondary consideration. 
The second market is the generic market or say 4/4 x wide x mostly 8'.  Any mill can supply this material, so cost is the main consideration.  Lumber is generated for this in the process of making the first type of lumber.  Also 5/8 x 3 1/2, 4, 5 and 6" x 4,5,6 and 8' lengths.  This is fencing lumber.  Jacket boards from sawing 4x4 and other posts.  Margins are slim, but these are not our main product.  Same as mulch. Couldn't make money if primary product was mulch or fence boards, but selling these moves product and adds to the bottom line and allows us to make more high end items.
It is the total value from each log that is important, not so much a profit from each part of the log.
We also market specialty cedar sawdust by the tons.  We take low grade lumber and make shavings and continue the process to make a specific size particle which makes good money.

We must be niche players because of our size.  Therefore we must find those markets that play to our strengths. 

Our product is in ceilings in DisneyWorld, Wolf Lake Lodges around the country, fancy homes, pergolas, decks, flute, farmers fences, privacy fencing, closets, any place treated wood will work.

How many of you advertize on woodfinder.  About 300 bucks a year. 

I don't care to primarily make generic lumber because any cedar mill in the US can do that.

Read trade journals, visit trade shows, log cabin industry uses a lot of rustic looking wood.

We are having our best year ever and we are doing it on half the volume we did 5 years ago.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Thank You Sponsors!