What to do with 45 acres of woodland?

[wesdor]

I just discovered the forestry forum and have spent several days reading a great amount of information.  You folks certainly have a vast background and I'm hoping you can give me some guidance.

I own several acres of land in northwestern Illinois.  Approximately 45 acres are forest or pasture land. A professional forester did a walk through last November and identified many trees that need to be culled.  He felt that there were no trees currently at maturity although he did identify several that needed thinning around them in order to improve their growth potential.   

The culls include cherry, walnut, oak, hickory, elm, hedge, mulberry, and probably a few other species.  I hate to think of just making a big burn pile for the wood and am looking at selling firewood next winter.  Although not big enough for commercial saw logs, much of the wood looks very good.  I am wondering if it would be worth sawing small dimension lumber and drying it.  Is there any market for such wood?

I am 58 years old, in good health and retired.  Although I have a reasonable retirement income, it will not allow for large investments in this operation.  This operation needs to  be self funding, although I do have a lot of time to devote to the project.

Any suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated.

[Texas Ranger]

Some one on this forum will be from Illinoise and tell you the climate up there, but, that being said, find your self a portable saw miller and invite him to look at the timber.  Have it marked where he can see the stems to be worked.  He will be able to tell you more than we can site un-seen.

"He" in this discussion is no specific, kinda like "you guys", there are a few lady sawyers.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hi there!
Of course you'll get a LOT of lumber out of a 45 acre thinning....In my opinion, it would be a crime to burn it up.(though it happens many times every day :-[)
You sound like the guy that is the target market for the sales rep at the band saw shops!!!
All the species in Illinois can be sold if cut into lumber, and if dried all the more saleable.
As mentioned you could hire a local band sawyer...or if ya like wood working GO FOR IT...you could justify the purchase of an inexpensive saw and very possibly return a profit.....if you have the gumption to find a market and sell what you cut.
Sounds like a fun situation to be in! Also you probably have a good bit of standing dead wood and blow downs that would suprise you , how much limber they hold.
What is considered commercially saleable size is a different story than USEABLE SIZE, in other words what I buy from loggers is logs that are sized so THEY can make a profit hauling and reselling.....usually, 18-20 dbh (at breast height) is as small as they wory about for common logs........BUT you can cut stuff down to 12 - 16 inches and get some decent lumber plus ties and cants for resale.
Buzz

[Kirk_Allen]

GO FOR IT!

I have spent only a single day skidding some logs with my brother in his woodlot that was just harvested by a timber outfit.

They left LOTS of great logs.  Sure, there not veneer but I bet there is over 5000 bf of logs that are clear on 3 faces.  Not sure why they left so much but were not complaining. 

One of the trees they left was a sacrificial Cherry that was hit by a white oak on its way down.  It uprooted the cherry and that was all.  Its 30" DIB from the root ball with no limbs for 40 feet. 

No Log to small!  Think about turning blanks!  Pen Blanks etc. 
I have sold some pen blanks for a $1 a piece.

[leweee]

wesdor .. welcome to the forum. Sounds like lots of potential in that 45 acres. Planting trees(reforestation) of the pasture land could be a possiblity.Firewood is always a good use of cull trees that are under size. Look into contacts with woodworkers, (woodturners & hobbists ) they love to buy small logs of hedge, mulberry.cherry & walnut to cut on their shop bandsaws to make projects. Most of all enjoy the outdoors,play safe & take care.

[wesdor]

I'm glad to see that some of you think I should look for a sawmill and do it myself.  I'm leaning towards finding a reasonably priced mill and trying to learn the trade.  That thought scares me a bit - if it was so easy, everyone would be doing it.

I recently attended a farm show and looked at the Hudson sawmill.  Their small mill seems like it would do everything I need, but I am really green at this and don't want to throw away $3,000 on something that in the end won't serve me well.  Unfortunately, that kind of money is serious to me so I can't just buy it on a whim.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Since you said you have more time than money (I can relate)
Spend a long time looking at things like used mobile dimension saws, swinger mills and more user friendly band saws....(oscar is ALL about the labor!
Buzz

[rebocardo]

Wesdor,

Buy a good saw with some power (ex. Husky 372 ) for about $400-$600 that is not too heavy. Then buy a throw away "rescue" saw such as a Poulan Wildthing for $150 with an 18 inch bar. Then all the safety gear, a winch, cant hook, logging chains, etc. Taking training lessons is worth the money. Total investment about $1200.

Then start culling the trees most likely to only be good for firewood and sell the firewood to help fund buying a mill. Myself, I bought a chainsaw mill on a trailer with my firewood money. Once I make enough money using that I will upgrade to a bandsaw or circle saw, if it is justified.

There is always a market for 2"x12"x16' oak planks for trailers. That is something a chainsaw mill is ideal for making in the middle of the woods. Especially for immature trees.

Start with firewood to make sure you are up for it and will enjoy it. Then use that money to fund a larger project. The more wood you cut and harvest or turn into lumber yourself, the more money you save and make.

[Corley5]

Talk to your local university extension office, FSA, and NRCS.  There are programs out there that will pay you to improve your woodland 8).  I'm working with the NRCS on a conservation plan for the farm and part of that is doing a small TSI on an annual basis.  In other words I'll get paid to cut my own trees for my own firewood 8) 8)

[J_T]

Talk to Music Boy  :D If you get hooked on this sawmill buisness you'll be wanting to trade up in no time. check out sawmill exchange someone may post a link. I got a circle saw because I like to hear them run. Know a guy him and his wife run a M14 bellsaw been sawing tyes on it over eleven years .Do you got a 4x4 tractor yet ???

[wesdor]

Yes, I bought a new John Deere 4310 with the heavy duty 300CX loader.  Seems to work fine and I've already hauled a lot of wood with it.  Spent three days this week cutting trees from around a field and then chipping the branches.  Everything 4 inches and up was saved for firewood or possibly lumber if I can find a sawyer that I can afford.

Yes, I'm going slow on purchasing a sawmill.  I like the idea of selling firewood to finance the sawmill.  You're talking my world - don't over extend.

[J_T]

Yep you got the bug :D :D

[DanG]

Welcome Wesdor!  If you're looking for somebody to talk you OUT of buying a sawmill, you've dialed the wrong number. ;) :D :D :D

It is a lot of work, but it is a lot of fun, and you can make a little money at it.  Mills are a little like cars and trucks....there's some depreciation on the new ones, but older ones hold their value pretty well if you take care of them.  Do a bunch more reading here, and go to   www.sawmillexchange.com   to do some perusing and dreaming. 

[sandmar]

J_T.....I think it's more like the bug has GOT him  :D
Welcome wesdor....you will have lots-o-fun at this site and learn things you never even dreamed of.

Sandmar

[wesdor]

Thanks DanG.  I just went to the sawmill exchange.  Never heard of it before and it looks like a wealth of information.

I'm not trying to get into this as a full time business - but want to find a way to use the rather large (to me at least) amount of wood that would otherwise just be burned up.  I don't like wasting things.

I think I realized before posting anything here that I wasn't at a place that would try to talk me out of this. 

I'm not sure if I got the bug or the bug got me, but I think you fellows have summed things up rather well.

[HORSELOGGER]

Hi Wesdor, Where are ya at in Illinois? I am in Stoc kton, have logging horses , sawmill, dry kiln and flooring shop. Stop over if ya want to see what yer in for ;D

[J_T]

hey Wesdor stay away from that Horselogger :D :D Cause if you got time there is nothing like watching those horses work. You'll be hooked for sure . Nothing like it wish I was closer :D :D

[rebocardo]

> I bought a new John Deere 4310 with the heavy duty 300CX loader.

Since you have a loader why not buy a "beam machine" ($40) and Bailey's end sealer ($40) and cut your stuff to 4"x4"x16' and 6"x6"x16' and store the wood under cover until you buy a mill and can resaw it later?

I would have started with a beam machine if I could have moved a green 6"x6"x10' myself.

[wesdor]

Thanks Rebocardo.

I had never heard of a beam machine.  Sounds like I need to look seriously at that option.  If it doesn't work well, I'm only out $40 and I can take that kind of risk

I really appreciate your response.  This gives me some options beyond fire wood for the short term

[HORSELOGGER]

The beam machine dont drive itself, so figure a good chainsaw... 45 acres of culls is alot diferent than the occasional urban tree. Dont seem plausible to me ???

[Buzz-sawyer]

Well here is how it will work.......
You feel a little tight on funds buy a beam machine..strap on the poulan and all of the sudden a beatiful, wonderful thing appears...........a BOARD , how did this happen ? I must do this more!!!!Soon the sawdust is flying and the chip pile is larger than the lumber pile....MUST cut MORE boards....then ALL the piggy banks break old ex wives are sold off...It just makes sense to get a used sawmill ;) :D :D :D

[wesdor]

At  this point, I'm thinking that having a custom sawyer do the work might be my best avenue.  Drying is another problem for me (since I have no experience). 

It seems to be me, that if I can be successful with a small amount of custom sawn wood, then I can make a wiser decision on whether it is worth the money to buy a sawmill.

As someone posted earlier - I probably have the bug.  However, since I haven't won the lottery yet, I need to go at this slowly.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Well then
If you wanna go on the cheap...(less than nothin) then heres what ta do. Search high and low for a sawmill owner, who has more time than money, probably a retired guy with a band saw , part timer like many on this forum. Then explain to him how you will SHARE your wood with him .....its called cutting on shares; and is very common,.
you can cut all your "fire wood" into lumber  for free.

You make 2 piles as he and you cut up the logs.
At the end of the day he loads his pile in his truck and leaves you a pile ..... ;)
As far as drying....God does that for free.
Stack the lumber with 1 inch square wood stickers bour 4 feet long....space them evenly and cover the stack with old tin roofing in a year it will be between 9 and 12% moisture (if cut into 1inch stock) .....suitable for all but the tightest fitting and drying requirements.

[ronwood]

wesdor,

Have you considered finding a sawyer that might be willing to cut on shares? I am currently working on a deal with a gentleman in Mo. who is cutting the cull trees out of his woodlot. For instance if I cut him 500 bd ft. of oak I will get 500 ft. of maple in log form utilizing the Doyle scale.  Maple trees are not of real good quality but the individual that sells my lumber has a good demand for it.

Ron

[HORSELOGGER]

Buzz said:As far as drying....God does that for free

Thats what I was thinkin... Evaporation never takes training :D