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Thinking about a grapple skidder...

Started by danbuendgen, June 06, 2016, 07:59:59 PM

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danbuendgen

Do you hand cut, or follow a buncher?
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

finding the trail


Mike_M

We have a TJ 360 single arch grapple with a winch. We try to shovel log everything with our log loader, but when the ground is favorable and skid distance is long a grapple skidder moves logs fast. In my humble view I wouldn't get a grapple skidder without a winch for reasons that others stated and for that situation where you need to winch yourself out. I have worked in hand fallen thinning units and have pulled logs to a staging location until I have enough wood to skid to the landing. It works well for us and sure does save jumping on and off the machine to set and unset chokers. A swinging grapple would definitely be a bonus at least in our area. Its hard to say what works good in your neck of the woods vs where we log. I again am just basing my opinion on what works for us and our terrain. After having a grapple skidder it would be hard to not have one. Just my 2 cents.

loggah

Dual arch grapple with winch, on real long pulls you can use the winch to bring in a bigger hitch,when your fairly close to the yard use the grapple and get back and forth quickly. Dual arch to get you thru those steep ,or wet spots by pushing your skidder thru them. I had that setup on my 660 Franklin and it worked great.I also made a tree pusher on top of the grapple beam ,you could really reach up a tree to help directional falling.
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

xalexjx

i have a timberjack 450c with a dual arch cutting by hand, I also had a small cable tree-farmer that i planned on keeping, after it sat at my shop for 6 months without moving i sold it. Im in upstate ny and cut some pretty gnarly ground and havnt had much of a problem getting to stuff with a grapple, just have to plan your cuts on really steep ground. I would not go back to pulling a cable after having the productivity of a grapple. If i didnt have an excavator or dozer available i would had kept the cable skidder incase of getting stuck. My 450 is a 94- or 95 with the joystick controls and everything is very simple to work on, (not much for electronics)
Logging and Processed Firewood

danbuendgen

Thanks for the replies. I am torn between a grapple skidder or a forwarder. I think a grapple skidder would be simpler to work on and fast, but my landing is small ( I have 3-4 years of work on this job for one guy ) and we sell a fair amount of split firewood, forwarding would keep wood clean and convenient to set wood in front of the wood splitter.

The forwarder I posted about earlier, Nortrax would take 22k for it bottom dollar. They also have 2, 4 wheeled Rottne harvesters that were traded in along with the Rottne forwarder, one is a parts machine and the other is ready to cut wood. For all three machines Nortrax would take 50k delivered to my job site. I am waiting to hear back from the last owner on the condition of the machines. They are all look kinda rough.... but I have to start out some where right? At my current job, there is a ton of low grade wood to mow down, and all the other jobs I am bidding on are not much different.

Again, thanks for all the replies so far.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Plankton

I can't help you on grapple skidder advice I just run a cable skidder but if you haven't already seen it there's a 450 dual arch grapple with a winch for sale in the central mass craigslist popped up when I was searching something yesterday and I thought of this post. Might be worth a look.

I was very close to calling about that forwarder you had for sale but I couldn't scrape up the money :(

chevytaHOE5674

Trouble with an old high hour/low price "modern" forwarder with electric over hydraulic controls is they can be electrical nightmares. If you can afford a bit of downtime and are good with a multimeter then maybe it won't be so bad...

RHP Logging

Danb- how did the Franklin handle 16s and hills?  Was it pretty stable yet or could you pop wheelies pretty easy if you had it packed tight?  I happened to look at your add when you had it for sale and noticed the bed extension.
Buckin in the woods

danbuendgen

I think the old Franklin 132 did real well. Holds long wood good, I would try to keep firewood under 20 foot but it could handle 22s if you load it right. For doing CTL the cab would have to be fairly level, otherwise if you try to pick something heavy up on the down hill side you would just lift up the opposite side tire. Does that make since? I was thinking about loading the front tires, but that would add 10k pounds to the machine, and I thought it would tear it up too much. Going up steep hills was slow, First gear wide open, if its was wet, the diff lock needs to be on up steep hills. I had put on new rear tires and that helped out a lot. Loader had a ton of power, it would lift anything. Good machine for 25k. I had to do a LOT of little TLC projects the first month I got it, after that I was fairly reliably, and had tight pins with low hours. I would suggest a 132 with the dual bunks to anyone, if you can load on flat ground.
I the reasons I sold it was because it was too time consuming bunching for it with my 240 TJ, and I actually got it for my wife to run, when shes not doing firewood, and she hates it! She constantly felt like it was going to tip over (but it was fine, shes just not used to it), I would chop and bunch and she would forward, it didnt work out. Plus she it sensitive to exhaust and she was getting bad head aches with the open cab and exhaust not far away. Then I tried CTL working alone, and it works in a heavy cut on flatish ground, but limiting to where it can get traction. Plus, I log everyday and it would be nice to have a cab with heat in winter, and help to stay out of the rain. If I could get a grapple skidder or forwarder with a cab I think I could get my wife to operate it now and then. I think a newer forwarder would "feel" more stable. Same with a grapple skidder.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

danbuendgen

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on June 09, 2016, 08:33:11 PM
Trouble with an old high hour/low price "modern" forwarder with electric over hydraulic controls is they can be electrical nightmares. If you can afford a bit of downtime and are good with a multimeter then maybe it won't be so bad...

Exactly, this it my biggest fear.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

RHP Logging

22s?  You could really stack wood on that thing.  Did you add the extension ?  It looked like it extended beyond the back tire and not from the center to back axle?  My bed is only 9 ft long so 16s can be a pain.  you have to make a bed for them to lay in if you don't put em in the bottom. Mine is open cab too but I made plexiglass for it.  The heater will cook you out of there.  Yeah they take some getting used too.  I've done some pretty crazy hills with them.  Standing on the dash kind of stuff where the blade ram won't extend far enough to dig.  As long as you keep em straight up and down.  They can climb forever but will dig a hole in a hurry.  Like you said you really wouldn't want to add weight to the tires.  I've really only had a close call or two of tipping over and I'm usually on some kind of hill.  The one guy I hired to run her a few years ago nearly tipped her over twice  in 3 weeks.  He lost his nerve after that.  A great solid machine in my opinion.  It's put a lot of wood out for me in the last five years.  Pretty easy to work on.  No way could I put my wife in it tho.  I've seen grown men terrified when picking up a good sized log 😀.
Buckin in the woods

danbuendgen

Quote from: RHP Logging on June 10, 2016, 07:49:53 AM
Did you add the extension ?

No the wagon is factory from Franklin, they are hard to find with a 16 foot wagon.

Nortrax just gave me the number of the last owner of that 95 Rottne Rapid SMV and I just had a positive conversation with him. I told him the price we agreed on (22k) and he nearly crapped his britches! He said a year ago he had 2 guys interested in it, but it was not for sale, one guy offered him 55k the other 60k. But it was not for sale at the time. Then a year later, the forwarder, and two cutters were traded in for a new excavator. The owner claims the hydrostatic pump and hydraulic pump and been done, new tracks, tires and chains 1000 hours ago, and all new electronics. He said for 22k thats the best deal for a 6wd forwarder he has ever heard about, he also said he would send me the operators manual, parts manual, and repair manuals for the machine. It does have some leaks that need to be addressed, and I need to get the a/c working asap, but I decided to go with this machine, not a grapple skidder.

Thanks to all who responded to my post!
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

killamplanes

Let us now how it goes. And getter hot :D
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

danbuendgen

Sure, I can keep you posted, The machine should show up Tuesday to Wednesday. But before I run it much, I will need to do some tlc work to it.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

chep

Dan
The company I work for has 5 Rottne forwarders.
I ran a 99 rapid last summer with no ac and it was around 110 degrees in the cab... adds some frustration. The Scandinavians don't have much use for the a.c and they designed a weak system.
Our service guy is just starting to get the Rottne ac systems figured out. PM me and I can get you in touch with him if you want. Working ac will make your life so much better!

Ben

chevytaHOE5674

Not sure how the cab on the Rottne's are but on my Ponsse I start using the AC when the outside temp is above 40° and the sun is shinning. The sun beating through all those windows warms it up quick. If the AC quit working that would be the exact time I would quit working as well :D.

danbuendgen

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on June 11, 2016, 03:05:00 PM
The sun beating through all those windows warms it up quick.

Oh, I know it can be brutal. When I looked at the machine, it was 60*F and cloudy outside, when I was playing around with it, I was sweating bullets... I cant even imagine how terrible it could get if the sun was out! I need to fix the a/c asap. Until then, I'm going to get to work at daylight and run it until it gets to hot.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

danbuendgen

Is any one around in southern Vt or western Ma, that is familiar with these Rottne Forwarders that wouldn't mind going over the machine with me once it shows up? This is my first 6wd Rottne and I know very little about them, some hands on pointers would be very helpful, I can provide a 6 pack and some cash, or split firewood in trade for your time.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

chep

Like I said send me a pm. My buddy is near the bellows falls area

danbuendgen

I tried to PM you already, I guess I did it wrong... I will try again now. Never done one before. If you don't get it, fell free to PM me.. Thanks.

Is that Long Views Rottne in your pictures? Do you work for them? I met with Jack and looked at there Rapid that's for sale, but it was out of my price range. Nice machine though.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

snowstorm

as far as the ac if it hasnt been replaced with a red dot do it. the rottne heat ac are together in the right front of the cab. as the rottne rep told me dont spend and money on the ac that it came with. as he put it we have 2 weeks a year in sweden that the temp gets to 70 then it cools off. its a bit of work to change. you can use the compressor thats there if its ok. new hoses if you run them where the factory did then into the cab you cant use precrimped hoses you will need the fittings and the crimp tool. hose wont fit with the fitting on it.    the link you had shows a ford motor a few years later rottne used iveco. they are not the same. if you ever need engine parts you must know what farm tractor used that motor then you can get them from new holland. rottne will not be able to help.     buy some fusses the old vw style. there are a couple fuse panels. the 3 circuit boards on the right. and the top of the cab next to the radio. have fun

danbuendgen

Honestly, I don't know whats wrong with the a/c system. All I know is that it does not work. For all I know it just needs to get recharged and has a leak. How much is a Red Dot a/c? Just so I got this right...If I upgrade to the Red Dot, I need to have new hoses made up? This is starting to sound pricey. If I stick with a stock a/c, it wont work good because in Europe, it doesnt get into the upper 90s in the summer, so I would still cook myself in the cab? Thanks for all the info, and help!
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

wannaergo

If it doesn't already have it, I would look into a roll down window shade kit. Our ponsse's both came with roll down reflective window tint that makes a huge difference. You would probably have to talk to rottne about it
2016 Ponsse ergo 8w
2014 Cat 564
Husky 385

snowstorm

the factory ac is very small. it was several years ago that i put a red dot in mine. ac unit was 600 or so another 200 for hoses you need a new dryer and hope the compressor is good. its a common sanden compressor. i bought a new one. its only money 

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