car axle wood splitter???

[shinnlinger]

 Ok,

Why wouldn't this work?  weld this all together, Gear the engine down enough to pull the wedge thru the wood or vv.  wrap some cable around an old tire rim and and have a spring or two to return it.  Apply the opposite brake on an open differential axle.

[beenthere]

Gonna try it?

Seems a cable would lack some "umph" to pull a wedge through a block of wood.

[shinnlinger]

I might try it if you guys don't talk me out of it.  I figure I can gain power to split either in gear reducing  the engine/pto to the axle or using a transmission or rigging the cable block and tackle  style back and forth a few times or all three.  The springs would return it pretty quickly I would think.

[Al_Smith]

My father ,may he rest it peace built a screw spitter from the axle  and transmission of a Jeep using a power take off from a tractor .14 HP Allis Chalmers model B could split anything you stuck on the screw .

[shinnlinger]

I actually have a PTO screw splitter from back in the day, but that is a trip to the emergency room.  What I am envisioning would function much like a supersplit or DR rapid split.  As soon as you release the brake handle the wedge would quickly retract.

What I could use some help with is is should the ram or the wedge be powered? Could a 7-8-or 9 horse briggs get it done thru a transmission or some other gear down?  flywheel?  is there a recommended gear ratio for the axle?  Would I just shred the cable by running it at 90 degrees around a pulley?  Am I wasting my time and should I just buy a supersplit?


Dave

[Hilltop366]

I seen one on you tube once, looked but I could not find it again.

[Al_Smith]

Well a super  split is fast .Now if a person were 20 years old you just might be able to keep up with it--for 15 minutes.

Too much hoopla about cycle time .Regular splitter ,old dude,2-3 cords a day .How much you want unless you try to make a million selling firewood .Never happen .

[shinnlinger]

It could potentially be faster, but I hear ya on hyrdraulic being fast enough for a person only looking to put up wood for themselves. 

The most intriguing aspect of this idea to me is cost over all else.   

I have a few old Briggs laying around and axles, H beams, transmissions, etc.   I do not have hydro pumps and pistons.   

[pineywoods]

Might work, just a couple of observations..You gonna need some some cable rated at 30-40 tons. Anchoring the parts down gonna require some serious metal work. Definitely be very short lived, car axle and rim nowhere near capable of withstanding 20 tons of force. Just bite the bullet and go look at surplus center

[Joe Hillmann]

I have seen a video on youtube of a set up kind of like you describe.   On that set up he had the cable running through a couple sets of pulleys to reduce the strain on the rear end and the cable.  I tried searching for it but couldn't find it.

[petefrom bearswamp]

this type of things  were sold about 30 years ago maybe longer to be attached to a car axle.
Just a spiral wedge.
Put the stick on and stand back IMO.
Dangerous and gas guzzlers even in the 70"s.
A good but somewhat slow hydraulic is better IMO
My home built is still functioning which I built in 1979 altho with the second engine.
Has split may KS  of cords.

[shinnlinger]

As previously mentioned, I am not interested in a screw type splitter as I already have one and their safety concerns are obvious.   Although mounting it on my post hole digger and splitting log length has crossed my mind from time to time.  If I had a skid steer and a hydro motor this would be a no brainer. 

I could see running the axle at 90 degrees to the beam as that would remove one 90 and snaking the cable to both sides and back block and tackle style would lower speed/reduce strain/increase power.  I could also use the other wheel as a shear/chunker.   

[Brucer]

... You gonna need some some cable rated at 30-40 tons...

Or you could use a much lighter cable and a multiple-line block and tackle arrangement. You would end up running the axle much faster.

... Anchoring the parts down gonna require some serious metal work....

With the block and tackle arrangement the key is to have the block and tackle mounted on the I-beam and just the single cable going to the axle.

... Definitely be very short lived, car axle and rim nowhere near capable of withstanding 20 tons of force...

Which would be a lot less with the block and tackle  ;D.

I've got a 4 ton electric log splitter that I use for splitting wide slabs. I've used it on some 20" plus Douglas-Fir rounds and it rarely gets bogged down. The only downside is, it's slow.

The point is, you could get away with a smaller cable and put less strain on your axle & wheel assembly if you were to sacrifice some speed. The trick is to have something that's weaker than the cable in the system. Stalling out the motor before the cable breaks would work.

this type of things  were sold about 30 years ago maybe longer to be attached to a car axle. ...

Still being sold, too. It's called "the Stickler". You can Google it on the web.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Oops, well shut my mouth.
Shinnliger, I Looked at the pic too quickly.
your design is nothing like the "stickler" that brucer posted.

[Brucer]

Actually, you reminded me about it. I remembered reading about it years ago in Mother Earth News. Couldn't for the life of me remember the name. I just did a search on spiral cone logsplitters and there it was ;D.

If they're still making and selling them after all these years, there must be something to them. Personally I think it would kill my back.

[LeeB]

Looks rather slow to me.

[711ac]

As previously mentioned, I am not interested in a screw type splitter as I already have one and their safety concerns are obvious.   Although mounting it on my post hole digger and splitting log length has crossed my mind from time to time.  If I had a skid steer and a hydro motor this would be a no brainer. 

I've been looking for one of those screw splitter for exactly that, to put on my hyd. p.h.d on my skid steer. I have a few hyd. pumps, trade? BTW, I've been wanting to build a small skidding winch with an axle. Your idea made me think of it again.

[shinnlinger]

I'm heading to Maine in 2 weeks, maybe we should trade some stuff.  I actually drew up a plan for a farmi style 3pt winch first when this splitter idea came to me.  There was a guy on farm show who had a wood processing trailer he hooked to his tractor pto that had a splitter that was axle and cable powered but with other stuff like an unloading feature and winch to load big hunks, it worked well for him so I know it can be done.   

I will probably try it and if it doesn't work out use the axle for the winch idea.  I went out back to check on my axle collection the other day and it aint what it used to be.  I will try to get a heavy duty low gear unit with intact brake system to make life easier.  My current inventory is  pretty hammered however a few have offset pumpkins.   If I took a short side axle shaft from one unit and cut the long side tube on another to match I would have a narrower unit that would sneak thru the woods better.   

[thecfarm]

I like this axle winch.  Reply #16.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,46929.0.html

[shinnlinger]

I like the idea of letting it slip via the other drum in lieu of using a transmission.  I wonder how the diff will hold up continually slipping but think the wear will be on the brake pads vs the oil bathed ring and pinion....

[711ac]

I'm thinking that a small industrial forklift axle might just be the ticket. Narrow and I would imagine, very stout.
Shinn, I sent you a PM about a swap if interested.

[shinnlinger]

Forklift axle is pre narrowed I suppose, I wonder if open diff, but probably yes.  Of course if I go to a junk forklift place ill probably end up with the piston and if I swap you for a pump this is a mute thread at this point, but I am intrigued.

I also don't imagine it needs to be more than a car axle.  27 PTO horses going thru a setup designed for 120 plus and it should be fine.  Having seen how a differential works and is constructed, I don't see any problem running one side consistently more than the other if it is a decent axle in the first place and the fact they live in 90 wt oil makes me feel even better.  I am debating wether I want to deal with drum brakes or disc.  the drum gives the option of a simpler cable emergency brake operation were the disc would require a master cylinder and do any cars today have unboosted units?  Would a clutch slave cylinder work?

[SwampDonkey]

If you can build that contraption, might as well build a proper one with a hydraulic pump. We had one built home made locally including the old snow blower engine for around $500, has a hitch and wheels and back leg to. Heavier and cheaper than ones in the box stores. ;D

[r.man]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIAWfzcTc8o

Behold, the wheel.

[beenthere]

rman
That vid sure answers a lot of questions about the potential for the OP's idea.

Looks like a nice setup, and think he mentioned it uses a 1/2" cable. But running slower than the OP plan, or not?

[shinnlinger]

Great find on that video.   That's the one I had seen a few years back, but couldn't find it recently.    As for speed, the big advantage I see is the cycle back.   Some decent garage door springs or a counterweight could make that pretty quick.   He mentioned how he geared it so any tractor could spin it and obviously the engine wasn't revving very high, so it could be faster but for safety that seemed about right.  That said, using a transmission AND pulleys with the 3/4 ton axle does speak to the gear reduction that will be needed. 

Another intriguing aspect is using the opposite wheel as a winch as he does, but it could also be made into a shear or chunker for the smaller stuff. 

Wheels turning in my mind anyway....

[Hilltop366]

That's the one I could not find!

Thanks r.man, I wanted to watch it again.

[shinnlinger]

This guy uses an axle setup with supersplit parts and the other side is a chunker shear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RhucNDc3aM

[r.man]

Wow, I don't consider myself a safety freak but that guys fingertips and or fingers are not long for this world if he doesn't change his habits. I am not a huge believer in over-guarding but that machine needs something to keep his fingers back from the chunker and he needs a table so he will let go of the blocks being split.

[shinnlinger]

Agree with you on that guys safety setup but It showed it is possible.  In researching  this  on line,  There are lots of guys  that take a 2 speed rear and spin it with a tire driven by a pipe welded to a small engine.  I think I might try that first as a power  source.   One of those  chunker guys stuck a large propane cylinder over the whole thing and made it much safer.  Unless I get into the smoker/charcoal/gasifier biz, I don't want to chunk but see it as a way to quickly cut up smaller branches.  I would mount a standard rim on it as well to use it as a capstan for bigger blocks of wood. 

[r.man]

There are european machines that do the same as the chunker but also use a 90 degree piece on the cutting wheel that splittes the chunked piece as it cuts it. They are used for branchwood and polewood and look to be fast and low maintenance.

[Hilltop366]

Those euro chunkers are slick, I seen a few tube clips of some that fed the stick in from the top so that gravity does the work for you once you get the stick in. I think one was mounted on a excavator boom.

Now if a person needed a heavy flywheel could you fill a tire with fluid, and would it self balance once spinning?

[beenthere]

self balance once spinning

??  What does that mean?

[Hilltop366]

If the tire would balance it self as it is turning by the fluid going to he outer part of the inside of the tire evenly.

[beenthere]

Might depend.

Likely the fluid would just sit in the tire and not spin with it at lower rpm, but at some point the friction may increase as the rpm of the tire picks up. However, before centrifugal force  could move the fluid out to the outer part evenly, there likely would be a very unstable rpm that would throw things out of kilter.

Such happens with tractor tires that have fluid in them. People have experienced the unstable effects of the fluid when the speed of the tractor (such as if coasting down a hill fast) reaches the point that the fluid starts moving around and over the top inside the tire. If that makes sense, there have been some bad accidents as a result.

[Hilltop366]

I see what you are saying, that in between speed before it gets balanced could be quite scary.

[ely]

a guy here used a transmission off a tiller to build a winch loader for a pulp wood truck. he had two forward speeds and one reverse speed. people have also used the limited slip rear ends for loaders on the same trucks.
the tiller loader would pick up the world if you could hook it up. he pulled the truck out of the mud before with it.

[Peter Drouin]

Why would you want a chunkier? And have to fool with all the little pieces.
Do you shovel the stuff in the wood stove?
Anything smaller than 4" OD I leave in the woods. :D :D

[DeerMeadowFarm]

Why would you want a chunkier? And have to fool with all the little pieces.
Do you shovel the stuff in the wood stove?

My question too. Obviously I must be missing something....?

[WmFritz]

Unless I get into the smoker/charcoal/gasifier biz, I don't want to chunk

I'm guessing the chunks are mostly getting used for gasifier boilers. Those stoves like low moisture content and the chunking would get em drier.

Storing them seems like a pain though.

[DeerMeadowFarm]

This guy uses an axle setup with supersplit parts and the other side is a chunker shear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RhucNDc3aM

I really like the spiltter portion of this guy's set-up; very fast! I wonder what it would do in stringy white oak though?

[pineywoods]

Man, If I ran that thing, within a week, I would be shy at least 2 fingers.  ;D
Some thought went into the design tho..

[shinnlinger]

I believe he bought the essential parts for his splitter from supersplit.   Evidently they will sell the rack and pinion separately but a student of mine is scrapping a 3/4 ton Chevy and I'm getting the rear axle so my original idea might just get a try yet. 

[r.man]

To me there are two uses for the chunker style cutter, the first is to make true chunks of wood for a gasifier but the second is to use a larger drum that would allow you to cut usable pieces quickly out of small trunks or branch wood. The European branch wood or pole wood style processes small diameter wood fast and semi-automatically. The first is the best video I have seen that shows the inner cutting head. The second video shows the more compact style that uses toothed rollers to feed in the workpiece. Unfortunately you have to watch for over three minutes to see the infeed set up in the second video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMn6C007VnI#t=61
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbcUu0TW11s

[ChopChopTimber]

It's been done

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIAWfzcTc8o#action=share

[starmac]

Just some food for thought for building things from old rearends. I doubt it would be heavy enough for this application, but the rears out of 280Z datsuns have flanges where the axleshafts bolt on just an inch or so from the pumkin. The 3rd member flanges and all in only about 16 inches wide. I saved a couple of them for several years, thinking they would be handy to build something out of.

[Kbeitz]

I think this is the best splitter that you can make....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVAAx3mMKY