Parts and opinions for CTL iron.

[Cub]

Might be a silly question but why follow a buncher with a harvester? Can't you just use the harvester to cut the tree down cut to length and make nice piles for the forwarder to pick up? Logs in one pile pulp in the other? That's the way 99% of guys around here do it? 

[Southside]

Much faster having the buncher in front of the processor, especially when dealing with small stuff mixed in.  I also found that the buncher did a better job with getting oversized stuff where I want it. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

A lot of local guys have found that even though they produce more with the bunchers out in front the increase isn't enough to justify the operator, fuel, payments, maintance, insurance, transportation, etc of that 3rd machine on the job. Some still do it but many have went to just a processor/forwarder setup.

[barbender]

One of our processor contractors tuns a buncher in front of his processors in the winter on clearcuts. It's a lot easier on the processor when the wood is prefelled, less bent bars, thrown chains, and hoses tore up. The increased production easily offsets the added cost in some situations. They were on one large aspen clearcut last winter, it was really big clean wood. 2 processors, I don't know how long of day they put in (probably 12 hours) 450 cords of wood processed! It was huge aspen, they said that some of it was around 30" on the butts, 9-10 sticks  I wasn't there personally but don't doubt them, when they tell me they cut 125 cords I pick it up and it's spot on. Don't get me wrong, this isn't typical production- the stars were aligned for that day😊 150 to 175 cords per processor is fairly typical though, in wood that would usually be 100-125 without the buncher (with a lot more maintenance).

[mike_belben]

So in that case we are talking about a circle saw fixed head buncher laying wood down for a ..  Dangle head processor? Are both machines on tracked or wheeled carrier?  Is the buncher spreading the logs out or piling them in clumps? 

[BurkettvilleBob]

This has no real bearing on the topic, but I was looking over a 4 roller head the other day and the places that thing had been broken were ridiculous.  It was hard to find a a spot that hadn't been broken, welded and was cracked again. I can only assume it had  a pile of wood run though it.

[barbender]

Mike, that's a tracked feller with a circle hot saw laying the wood in bunches for rubber tire dangle head processors (Ponsse Ergos, one 8 wheel and one 6 wheel both with H7 heads). The heads have special knives for picking stems out of the piles. 
   Bob, all processor heads take a beating. However, a lot is dependent on the operator, and the wood. Our machines break a lot more stuff when we get into hardwood. Crooked stems and big limbs take their toll. 

[snowstorm]

i can see putting wood on the ground with a hot saw if you have brush to deal with. but bardge has a bar chain head. i would buy a used head and put on the timco he has. and it would be a dangle

[Southside]

You are right -the advantage is with the hot saw.  Around here when you say buncher, nobody would ever think of a bar saw, so I was thinking of the speed a disc gives you.  I have tried to cut brushy, narly stuff with the bar saw on my 4 roller - it pinches, binds, and causes all kinds of issues - with the buncher it just goes "zing".

[Riwaka]

disc saw (quadco) FB etc usually have the wrong boom geometry to put dangle heads on them.
Do any swamp loggers use processors on hardwood? or does the mud ruin them? Does a saw bunk last longer in muddy hardwood?

I wonder if a West Coast BC trip would be an alternative to the UP trip?
e.g Axis are making their own head and electronics, write the field service manuals to fix it yourself. After 7 years fixing and making parts for the waratah 622b heads etc , axis have the rebel x25 (could be termed a 622b evolution plus, slightly heavier than the 622b ) to correct the repetitive faults of the 622b design with stronger rams etc.

Axis forestry
Axis Forestry - Rebuilt Waratah & New Rebel CTL Heads - YouTube

Axis forestry electronics - wiring that can work in the cold, easy changeout components.etc
CYPRESS ROBOTICS - Taking over the world, one processor at a time.

Your Axis Forestry Rebel x25 dealer for Michigan, Wisconsin & Minnesota - AXIS FORESTRY DEALER FOR MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN & MINNESOTA
rebel x25 intro
Axis Forestry at the CNRE 2017 - YouTube      


4 wheel skidder BC on the wet hills- ecotracks front and rear
Logging and Sawmilling Journal December/January 2012 - Eco-Wheel Tracks deliver traction on B.C.?s steep slopes

[Cub]

I was thinking that having the expense (operator,Ins,payment,fuel,maintenance,etc) of a 3rd machine on the job wouldn't pay but if you get an extra 50 cord a day in the right wood I guess it would pay. I suppose everything has to align to get that though. I personally wouldn't want the extra. But I'm a 1 man show with saws and an old forwarder. 

[mike_belben]

....was looking over a 4 roller head...  was hard to find a a spot that hadn't been broken, welded and was cracked again.

Some fault may lay with the weldor in that scenario.  If the heads are made from a high chrome alloy or some type of wear/abrasion resistant material they will not tolerate a hot multipass weld getting laid right onto stone cold plate, especially in winter.  Itll be chasing cracks thereafter.



Not a completely comparable example but i was repairing very high carbon Labounty shear knives that had been cold welded by a "just trust me" weldor.  Huge chunks would tear out and it would just gum the metal without severing.

  No matter how deep i chased those cracks or how many hours of preheat, postheat, interpass heat, interpass peening.. It didnt matter. My edge stayed sharp even after it chunked off and landed on the ground.  The stress was in there forever from the last guy.  Maintaining these very expensive knives became a fools errand. 

[Mike_M]

I shopped for a while before I found our TJ 608. It had an older TJ 762C dangle head on it and we knew the head would need lots of work or replaced. The base machine had about 6800 hours on it and was taken care of so we felt pretty good about it. You always take the risk of something going wrong when buying used, but so far no major problems. Our machine spends half its time cutting trees and the other half sitting on the landing processing out of a pile. We don't cut enough volume to justify a buncher yet, so we hand cut and use our processor when size and terrain allow. When we were looking for a replacement head I wanted something that had good service and support. In our area that was Waratah and the reason we went with a 622B. So far it has met our expectations and with the addition of a top saw I wondered how I ever used a processor without one. The head is pretty easy to operate and doesn't take long to get comfortable with. My 18 year old son recently started running it and picked right up on not just processing on the landing but cutting trees. He hasn't even bent a bar yet. Like everyone else I would love to have new iron, but we aren't at a place to buy new. I think if you look around and take your time you can find good used equipment.

[mike_belben]

Is swapping out the buncher head on his timbco for a processor head not an option?

[barbender]

I remember Barge looking into that at one time, I think maybe his particular machine doesn't have  enough hydraulic flow.
  Mike M, it sounds like you found a sysem that works for you. The problem with the new (or newer) iron is the amount of wood you have to move.  Just one of our CTL crews will typically move 3-400 cords a week, that's a lot of wood to find a home for.

[BargeMonkey]

@ 400 cord a week I'm only going to work 3 months a yr 🤣 The volume you guys must cut is crazy. My Timbco lacks the HP to run a Rolley2 or a big hotsaw, it can run a dangle or 4 roller. I would rather stare at an extra machine on the job than deal with more employees. Been haggling on a low hr nice 450J and that's going to come first I think. 
 Anyone have a "Timberheads", out of WI ? looks like an FT240, it looked pretty rugged. 

[Corley5]

I've got just what you need   I'll make you a heckuva deal and the Forestry Forum will get it's cut 8)











  

[Southside]

I am not buying Corley5 - but what are you asking?

[Skeans1]

Heck I've got a ton of spare parts and two heads I need to get rid of.

[Corley5]

I know what I'd like to get out of it ;) ;D  But a realistic price :-\  Well...  It has a BRAND NEW Kawasaki hydraulic pump.  Hasn't cut a tree since it was installed.

[Riwaka]

After the 450J , might find a tier 3 650J XLT and chip to 115hp or more, tow a bit bigger log.
650J Deere pulling logs in Southern WV - YouTube

[Corley5]

I see Pat's in Da UP has a similar machine that they're asking 79,900 for.  I'd sell this one for less than that....

[Mike_M]

That's a real nice Fabtek. My dad had a JD 490 Fabtek conversion with a 4- roller head, used it with a forwarder until the mills started cutting the short log pricing in the late 90's.
    Our biggest struggle is we log a variety of stand sizes. both clear-cuts and thinning operations. Its tough to have just the right machines when your a small operation that is so diversified, but we manage to make it work. Right now we are thinning 100 acres of what would be best logged with a cut to length machinery, but are processing most of it on the landing. 
    Having machinery with some flexibility helps us a lot. When the ground isn't too steep we can use the processor to cut with. Our dozer is used to cat log on the steeper ground and our grapple skidder is used most of the time when its not too wet. In the near future we are planning on adding a larger log loader with double drums to skyline short distances and then use it to shovel log and load trucks.
     Its always interesting to see how other people our making things work for them.

[Cub]

Sure is a nice fabtek machine there Corley. If I had enough work lined up for that and had the cash flow for it i would have it on it's way here!! I've always wanted 1 of those. Hopefully someday. Until then I'll keep running the Stihl's. 

[Skeans1]

That's a real nice Fabtek. My dad had a JD 490 Fabtek conversion with a 4- roller head, used it with a forwarder until the mills started cutting the short log pricing in the late 90's.
   Our biggest struggle is we log a variety of stand sizes. both clear-cuts and thinning operations. Its tough to have just the right machines when your a small operation that is so diversified, but we manage to make it work. Right now we are thinning 100 acres of what would be best logged with a cut to length machinery, but are processing most of it on the landing.
   Having machinery with some flexibility helps us a lot. When the ground isn't too steep we can use the processor to cut with. Our dozer is used to cat log on the steeper ground and our grapple skidder is used most of the time when its not too wet. In the near future we are planning on adding a larger log loader with double drums to skyline short distances and then use it to shovel log and load trucks.
    Its always interesting to see how other people our making things work for them.

Mike for years we used a 4 roller doing exactly that for years before getting a forwarder, now we're long log thinning with a forwarder and dangle head.