fast money selling timber from my property need info

[margaret]

Hi I am a female needing some honest opinions and the best way to go about selling timber from my property.I am needing money fast for driveway repair and have 5 acres of fir.I heard the market is hot right now ?I am wondering if there is such thing as a timber loan.It seems like it can be a long process logging than selling.... I am hoping to find a faster remedy.Any info would be highly appreciated I live in BC.Margaret

[Phorester]

The best way to sell timber is to take your time. Trees are not like money in the bank that you can withdraw quickly.  If you try to sell timber fast, you open yourself up to getting a lower price that it's probably worth, and possibly getting a bad logging job in the process.  The tendency will be for a logger to take your highest value trees to get you the most money,leaving the low value trees  for your future forest. Like weeding a flower garden by taking out the flowers and leaving the weeds.

Also, 5 acres is not much timber.  So even under ideal circumstances you might not even have enough trees to interest a timber buyer.

I would either take the time to do it right, or look for other ways to get the money you need quickly.

[thecfarm]

margaret,welcome to the forum. You will get honest answer,but not the answers you want to hear. Sorry. Listen to Phorester,he knows. I understand money problems way too much. First off any GOOD logger will be busy. Just like a mechanic,if they can get you right in to do a job on your car,why ain't they busy? They ain't no good. Some logger might loan the money before logging,but I doubt he would do it without knowing you. If you had them cut on your land before and they know you,it might happen.

[Gary_C]

I would either take the time to do it right, or look for other ways to get the money you need quickly.

That's good advice. I just hope you are not falling for one of those fix your driveway scams and trying to pay for the high cost of the driveway repair by jumping into another scam with your timber.

Please get some local help and advice.

[WDH]

I would not recommend selling any timber until you had it appraised as to value.  You need to know what you are selling so that you can evaluate offers.  A Forester can help you do this. 

[thenorthman]

Hello...  five acre's isn't much, but a small scale logger should be able to cut and make a profit, that is if you really want it logged, and if there really is some valuable timber on there...

Hiring a forester may be cost prohibitive in the long run, (sorry guys but not much room to work in five acres). 

As far as Fir being up right now that is all relative to being low, I can remember $1800. per 1K...

one last thing if you forgo the forester, than be very clear with the logger what you want done, mark the trees yourself if need be.  Just don't turn em lose and say "cut whatever you think is best".  Selective cutting can be done well if there is some kind of plan to go along with it.

Also I don't know what the laws in BC are as far as getting permits and what not but down here in warshington it takes at least a month if you dot all you're t's and cross all your I's.... and then you have to wait x amount of days for the locals to whine about it

[ST Ranch]

Hi Margret - wondering if you can give us a little more info- where in BC are you from? - Value, markerts and economy to scale of operation vary quite a bit by region [coast vs interior, remoteness etc].
What are you timelines? If you own the land outright [your name on the title] a timber mark from the Ministry of Forests is required before timber can be moved [usually 1-2 week application process]
I also suggest you try to get a bit of outside advice from more than one party[ie other than the logger]  It can range from a reputable small scale logger to a semi-retired forest professional who may have reasonable rates.
There is also a network of small scale operators in the Province that have woodlot operations and you might be able to hook up with one of them for advice.
Look forward to hearing more about your situation. Tom

[gspren]

  I can tell you how I did something similar to what you are asking but keep in mind this was 17 years ago on 20+ acres and in Pennsylvania. I had just bought the neighboring farm and the house was in need of drastic repairs, I had a local Forester mark the trees and put it out for bids, after I accepted a bid the loggers had up to a year to cut so I then went to a Farm Credit office and took a loan against the logging contract which meant I needed to pay when I collected on the log sale. Good luck and be carefull!

[ID4ster]

Margret,

Please tell us where in BC you are. 5 acres of west side fir could have a lot more volume and be a lot more valuable than 5 acres of interior BC fir.

Selling your timber fast is usually a bad way to go to solve an emergency. Other posters have already pointed out that having a forester to help you with the sale will net you more money and result in a better job than just going with the first offer that comes along. If you have uncut west side timber than you have a pretty valuable asset. If you need money in a hurry get an appraisal from a consultant forester and then go to a bank or insurance company that will make loans on bare land or on timber assets. Use that money to make your repairs and than have a professional harvesting job done by a good logger under the supervision of your forester and use the revenue from that sale to repay the loan. If your 5 acres of timber is a valuable or integral part of your residential property you do not want to have a rape and run harvesting job done by someone that may own logging equipment but is not in any sense a professional logger.

Look to your BC Ministry of Forestry for a list of consultant foresters in your area. Also, wait for a suggestion from Swamp Donkey who is a frequent poster in this forum and is more knowledgeable about Canadian forestry regulations than I am.

Good luck and DON'T cut your timber in a hurry.

[beenthere]

Margaret hasn't been back since her post last night. Hope she does and reads some of the good responses so she gets her "fast" money.  Or is it too late now?

[Old Iron nut]

   Margaret, be very careful dealing with these asphalt driveway paving boys. Very often they show up saying they were in the neighbourhood and had some left over from another job and will give you a break on the price, My mother fell for this line of BS and they scammed her for ten to fifteen times what the material was worth. It wasn't even installed thick enough. I have worked with a construction company that done asphalt and know what is involved price wise and labour  wise. Better to stick with a crushed stone driveway, easier maintenance. Cheers, Old Iron nut.

[clww]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
As others have written, I would talk with a professional forester first.

[margaret]

Oh did I luck out by coming to this site you all have no idea how HELPFUL this is for me..I will keep you updated on how it goes I live in the Vancouver Island area.Sincerely Margaret

[margaret]

Anyone know who gives loans for timber assets?

[thenorthman]

Kind of a silly question but what kind of repairs does yer driveway need?

Seems to me that a load of gravel or two and a weekend tractor rental shouldn't cost to much say around $1000. (kanadia may be different on prices but that should be close).

If'n its just a matter of filling in some pot holes that should be more than enough...
of course if there is major damage say a culvert needing replaced or a washout of some magnitude than cost will certainly go up from there.

[WDH]

You could have the timber cruised and appraised, and offer it lump sum payment up front in full.  The logger cuts the timber, and you have your money.  The other possibility is to sell by the unit, and you get payed on each load that is cut and hauled.  At least in the South, it is not uncommon to get an advance of up to 50% of the estimated timber value up front.  No money is paid to you for each load that is cut and hauled until the advance is satisfied.  After that, you begin to receive payment for each load cut and hauled until all the timber is cut and hauled. 

You want to get full market value for the timber, and you want the logging to meet certain standards of quality.  This is why a Forester would be very helpful.  The Forester would handle the sale and manage the logging for you. 

[petefrom bearswamp]

I am a retired consultant forester and have managed timber lots for sale as small as 3 acres with excellent results.
I concur with the advice to get a good forester who is familiar with markets in your area.
Yes, the big boys may not be interested in 5 acre lots, but a forester can point you in the right direction
Good luck.
Pete.

[thecfarm]

I have no idea where the five acres is on your land. There was a guy at work that had some land cut in view of his house. All that he complained about was the mess. I never saw the job,but I guess he some how thought that it would not change his view of the woods.  :

[gspren]

Anyone know who gives loans for timber assets?

If there is any agricultural land near you ask who makes farm type loans.

[FirewoodResource]

Making a such a quick decision about harvesting your timber just sounds like a bad idea that you will regret in the future. One thing to consider is whether the amount you get for the timber will be worth the depreciation cutting all the timber off the place will cause to the property value.

[ST Ranch]

Margaret - I think there is a theme in most of the messages above - do not do any logging in a hurry and look at other options to pay your bill - that said, a second common theme is to get your timber looked at and appraised.  You will need an appraisal regardless of whether you go to a lending company, or eventually get someone to harvest the trees if needed. You probably do not need a full blown timber cruise [measurement and assessmant of trees on site] to get an evaluation , but rather a quick walk thru with a couple of sample plots to get an estimate of volume, grade and subsequent value.
You say you are from Vancouver island, so I can say your options are look a bit brigther than other parts of BC. [West Coast timber is usually of greater value and there is more market opportunity in your area, so I would expect a better selling price]. In terms of getting a second opinion, as previously suggested, finding a forest tech or forester to help you is also my advice.
You also might consider doing an internet search of the North Vancouver Island Woodlot Association or the BC woodlot license Ferderation - they both should have good links and contact info. These Woodlot folks are a made up of like minded folks that manage small tracts of privatre and crown forest land. Some are forest profesional and some not, but to me a good place to start. Good luck.  Tom

[Green Acres]

Here is a link for the bc Goverment providing small scale logging practices and info. It is a bit of reading but very interesting and you could better manage your property by having some unbiased knowledge.   Others that replied to your topic were not kidding about not letting unresponsible loggers on your property. They will totally distroy your property so you will be no farther ahead. I live on the east coast Canada and have been doing small scale logging for 35 years and seen some beautiful property destroyed.

Ps. I lived in surrey bc for 2 years. I beautiful province indeed.

Here is the link. http://www.woodlot.bc.ca/swp/Downloads/files/MYW.pdf

[margaret]

Thankyou all for your help When your house is appraised they do not take timber into value.Question do you think it would devalue the price on my property?The land isn't useable thick forest looks nice for some folks I guess.I think some would prefer it clear all depends on the use of the property. I am wanting to sell my house this is why I am needing the money to do my driveway  and few more things.Is it better to sell your house with trees or not?I may just clear a small area I think 5000.00 would be enough to cover what I need done.

[Sprucegum]

Would clearing it give you an ocean view?

I would list it with trees on and offer to have them removed for an additional $10,000.00 if they wish.  ;)  :D

[Ron Scott]

Yes, your house property may be more valuable and marketable with the trees on it. You need to determine the preferred aminities of your property with or without trees and current market options. Small land areas often aren't inviting for a quick sale after the trees have been cut. This is where a professional forester can help you in determining a preferred alternative as to whether to cut or not cut.