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Rebuilding 18 volt batteries for cordless tools.

Started by Dave Shepard, November 07, 2015, 05:16:30 PM

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Dave Shepard

Has anyone done this? I lost one of my Milwaukee batts this summer, and I was going to retool with Makita, as they seemed to be the popular choice at work. My boss gave me his old Milwaukee tools, with a bunch of dead batteries, so I bought a couple of new ones and now seem to be committed to Milwaukee tools. The more people I talk to, the more support I get for Milwaukee, although I think Makita would be fine, too. I now have a bunch of batteries that won't take a charge, and I was thinking of rebuilding them.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Magicman

I have bought new batteries and rebuilt a few, but finding high ah replacements is a chore plus expensive.  After you add shipping to that, I felt that I was better off buying a warranted replacement.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

clearcut

Last time I went to try this I found pre-built after market batteries on eBay were about the same cost as buying the cells. That was for a Dewault.
Carbon sequestered upon request.

Dave Shepard

There used to be a business near me that rebuilt batteries, but I think they moved. The 3ah batts from Home Depot are $140/pair, and the new 5.0 are $129 each. I'd like to know why the Festool 5.2 are only $45 each. ??? I guess if I can get a couple of years out of a pair that may just be a cost of having the convenience.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

snowstorm

i bought the big mikta set 8 yrs ago 18v most of the tools were pretty good. the drill has been fixed several times. new gear box new  chuck gets hot but it still works. the flash light needed a new circuit board. the plastic ring that holds the lenses and bulb in. if you get it tight enough to hold the bulb in it breaks. batteries might last a yr at best.  i have some 12v Milwaukee. the greese gun is over 3yrs old still running on the battery that came with it 

Kbeitz

Been there done that...
Some things I learned.
Most all take the same cells inside.
So what I do is search E-bay for cheap battery's of any make.
Then I take them apart for the cells and put them in my battery case.
You can reprieve old battery's by hooking a high amp battery charger to you old dead battery's.
I only do this for a few sec. Be very careful. I was told they can come apart doing this.
It has never happen to me and I've done a lot of them.
They will then again take a charge.
The newest battery's have electronics inside. I have not messed with them.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

JB Griffin

Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 07, 2015, 05:42:10 PM
I'd like to know why the Festool 5.2 are only $45 each. ???

I guess they feel sorry for the people that spend $300-$600 on a bare tool. :o
Supposed to be the best there is though.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

jcbrotz

Quote from: JB Griffin on November 08, 2015, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 07, 2015, 05:42:10 PM
I'd like to know why the Festool 5.2 are only $45 each. ???

I guess they feel sorry for the people that spend $300-$600 on a bare tool. :o
Supposed to be the best there is though.

They make their money on the tool not the batteries if I had the money all my tools would be festool no comparison to quality. That said I own lots of dewalt and they don't want to support 18v anymore but are finally making a 20v-18v adapter.

To answer the question they are tough to get right with most better know how to soider sending them in to be rebuilt is also an option dewalt isn't to bad with that.;
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

Dave Shepard

I have four of the small batteries that won't charge. I might look into sending them out if it's not too expensive. After looking around, I might just buy a new tool with the big batteries, some kits are not much more than two 5.0 batteries outright.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Peter Drouin

Quote from: Kbeitz on November 08, 2015, 09:58:32 AM
Been there done that...
Some things I learned.
Most all take the same cells inside.
So what I do is search E-bay for cheap battery's of any make.
Then I take them apart for the cells and put them in my battery case.
You can reprieve old battery's by hooking a high amp battery charger to you old dead battery's.
I only do this for a few sec. Be very careful. I was told they can come apart doing this.
It has never happen to me and I've done a lot of them.
They will then again take a charge.
The newest battery's have electronics inside. I have not messed with them.





I have some I'm going to try that on. Just have to see which one is + and-- on the batt.
Thanks.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Kbeitz

Quote from: Peter Drouin on November 09, 2015, 08:58:18 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on November 08, 2015, 09:58:32 AM
Been there done that...
Some things I learned.
Most all take the same cells inside.
So what I do is search E-bay for cheap battery's of any make.
Then I take them apart for the cells and put them in my battery case.
You can reprieve old battery's by hooking a high amp battery charger to you old dead battery's.
I only do this for a few sec. Be very careful. I was told they can come apart doing this.
It has never happen to me and I've done a lot of them.
They will then again take a charge.
The newest battery's have electronics inside. I have not messed with them.





I have some I'm going to try that on. Just have to see which one is + and-- on the batt.
Thanks.

Put it back on the charger for a few min. That will give it enough charge to put a meter on it to find the post post.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Jim_Rogers

I had two batteries rebuilt for my portacable power drill at Batteries plus place not to far from me.
One of them I had to take back twice to get them to fix an internal connection that kept breaking off for no reason.
But since they were replaced they seem ok.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

21incher

I purchased a Makita 18 V Li Ion set a little while ago and would never purchase another. The batteries just die with no warning. You place them in the charger and lights start flashing and they will never charge again. This was after just owning the set for a little over a year. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Kbeitz

Quote from: 21incher on November 10, 2015, 07:57:23 AM
I purchased a Makita 18 V Li Ion set a little while ago and would never purchase another. The batteries just die with no warning. You place them in the charger and lights start flashing and they will never charge again. This was after just owning the set for a little over a year. :)

If they do that put them on a car charger for a short time.
That will fix that problem.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

snowstorm

Quote from: 21incher on November 10, 2015, 07:57:23 AM
I purchased a Makita 18 V Li Ion set a little while ago and would never purchase another. The batteries just die with no warning. You place them in the charger and lights start flashing and they will never charge again. This was after just owning the set for a little over a year. :)
mine did the same thing. if i am real lucky they last a year

clearcut

QuoteIf they do that put them on a car charger for a short time.
That will fix that problem.

Have a fully charged fire extinguisher at hand. Overheated Lithium Ion batteries can burst into intense flame. Lithium ion chemistry is more complex and potentially dangerous than Nickel Metal Hydride or NiCad.

LiOn batteries are also more difficult to rebuild. Each has a charge controlling circuit board that is matched to a brands charger.

Carbon sequestered upon request.

scsmith42

Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 07, 2015, 05:16:30 PM
Has anyone done this? I lost one of my Milwaukee batts this summer, and I was going to retool with Makita, as they seemed to be the popular choice at work. My boss gave me his old Milwaukee tools, with a bunch of dead batteries, so I bought a couple of new ones and now seem to be committed to Milwaukee tools. The more people I talk to, the more support I get for Milwaukee, although I think Makita would be fine, too. I now have a bunch of batteries that won't take a charge, and I was thinking of rebuilding them.

Dave, I have rebuilt several battery packs.  Here is what I've learned:

1 - you can rebuild NiCad and Nickly Metal Hydrade battery packs.  You can't rebuilt Lithium Ion packs because the electronic circuitry inside must be matched to the batteries.

2.  Cells are pretty inexpensive, but it's hard for an individual to solder them in such a way that the connections don't take up more room than OEM.  If the pack has some room inside, this is not a problem.  However if the pack is very tight, it can be a pain.  I recently had to discard a battery pack because I could not get the connections as tight as what came in it to where the new pack would fit back inside the tight housing.

3 - Buy the batteries that have the tabs on them - much easier to solder them together.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

gspren

   I have had good luck getting batteries rebuilt at a local shop, 14V Makita, both times the rebuilt battery was better than the original. (more Amp-Hrs).
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Dave Shepard

At this point, I don't think I'll bother. HD has an M18 Fuel kit with hammer drill, impact driver, and two 5.0 batteries for $399, with $150 credit towards another Milwaukee product. That is to enticing to pass up.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Brucer

Don't mess with Lithium Ion batteries.

- They are meant to be charged in two stages ... constant current to start with, then constant voltage.
- If you overcharge them, you are risking thermal runaway which will destroy the battery and will often set it on fire.
- If you expose them to excess heat, they will short internally, causing thermal runaway.
- If you short them, they will overheat, causing thermal runaway.

Each battery contains an electronic circuit that is tuned to that specific battery. This is what controls the charging.

The batteries will deteriorate over time, even if you don't use them. You can slow this process down by keeping them cool. I store spare batteries in a plastic container in the fridge.

Ordinary Lithium Ion batteries shouldn't be charged in temperatures is below freezing. Doing so will cause a metallic barrier to form inside the cells, greatly decreasing the life of the battery.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

r.man

One interesting thing I can say about older Dewalts is that the 12 volt batteries will fit in the 9.6 drill, although you have to give the battery a firm hit to make it go in.  The drill works about the same as with a 9.6. I was looking at the fit of an 18 volt battery in a 12 volt drill and I expect if a plastic shoulder was removed from the battery that it would work. My wife jump started her E-reader that wouldn't take a charge. Used a 9 volt battery and a paper clip for a brief jolt. Sounded like the charging system didn't recognize the battery because it was so dead.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

LeeB

My SIL hooks up his 18V stuff to a car battery all time. May run a little slower but runs just the same.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

John Mc

Quote from: Brucer on November 12, 2015, 01:13:07 AM
Ordinary Lithium Ion batteries shouldn't be charged in temperatures is below freezing. Doing so will cause a metallic barrier to form inside the cells, greatly decreasing the life of the battery.

That's a point I didn't know.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Brucer

Well most of the time we'd probably keep the charger in the house or the shop, so it wouldn't be an issue. I have been known to charge batteries in my unheated garage (but not in winter).

I did some research last year on Ni-Cad versus Lithium Ion batteries. The head of the tool department at the local building supply store was telling me stuff about Ni-Cads that I knew was complete nonsense.  :P It turns out that what he was telling me about Lithium Ion batteries was complete nonsense as well ::).
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Dave Shepard

I haven't found a company that will rebuild my old batteries, but have been doing a lot of research into Milwaukee's Fuel line of 18 volt tools. I will only be buying Fuel tools from now on. I have a hatred for power cords, and have always wanted cordless tools that would rival the corded versions. The Fuel tools do that, from everything I've seen, which is multiple reviews and videos from different sources. I have the 1/2" Fuel impact wrench, and I believe it will completely eliminate the need for my air impact, which was no slouch. Battery technology is advancing very fast. You can already get 5.0 ah batteries, and in January, Milwaukee is introducing 6.0 and 9.0 versions as well. So the relevance to the thread is that with enough different tools in the M18 line, I plan on adding 7 1/4" circ saw and sawzall, fairly soon, I figure that having to spend a certain amount of money on batteries per year, (or every few years and spreading it out to a yearly value), is probably reasonable in comparison to the amount that I will be using these tools. Not having to have a generator, cords etc. has a petty significant value as well.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

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