Been a while since I have been on the board.
Was wondering if there are any TJ guys out there that have dove into a differential on one of these.
I have a new to me 1976 TJ 450 skidder. Problem is that the right rear wheel is dead. Pulled the axles, they are fine. Needs a set of planetary on the same wheel but that is not the issue, they still spin when wheel is rotated so they are not binding (just one tooth broke off one gear and the pin is shot). I have gone through enough planetaries in a 518 to know that the drive axle does not stop if they bind and it tears them all apart. This axle did not do the same thing.
No weird noises I can hear when it rotates(but I don't hear much with the screaming jimmy) or even feel.
This has the Eaton axles in it and the "NO Spin" My guess is it is similar to CAT design.
This leaves me with the differential. My guess is that the problem lies in the "No Spin" Anyone ever had one apart?
Can you get parts?
I am currently also looking for a whole 3rd member to swap in for time sake, but am having trouble locating one. Suggestions on suppliers?
If I can't find one I will have to fix the one I have I guess.
Any help would be great.
Thanks
The cheapest problem would be a broken spring in the no-spin. so one side stays out.
I'm guessing that a forestry scrapyard would be your best bet for a third member, you will need to know the ratio( stamped on the end of the pinion). I have had lots of those apart, sounds like the locker is stripped out on one side or as neilo said spring broke. They are not hard to do don't touch the pinion and pull the center section replace the locker and set to .010" backlash and your good to go again. Last one I installed I think was around 1200.00 bucks Canadian.
Thanks guys.
Where would I get a spring or a locker for that matter? Who sells those Eaton parts?
Quote from: Spartan on September 02, 2015, 11:51:32 PM
Been a while since I have been on the board.
Was wondering if there are any TJ guys out there that have dove into a differential on one of these.
I have a new to me 1976 TJ 450 skidder. Problem is that the right rear wheel is dead. Pulled the axles, they are fine. Needs a set of planetary on the same wheel but that is not the issue, they still spin when wheel is rotated so they are not binding (just one tooth broke off one gear and the pin is shot). I have gone through enough planetaries in a 518 to know that the drive axle does not stop if they bind and it tears them all apart. This axle did not do the same thing.
No weird noises I can hear when it rotates(but I don't hear much with the screaming jimmy) or even feel.
This has the Eaton axles in it and the "NO Spin" My guess is it is similar to CAT design.
This leaves me with the differential. My guess is that the problem lies in the "No Spin" Anyone ever had one apart?
Can you get parts?
I am currently also looking for a whole 3rd member to swap in for time sake, but am having trouble locating one. Suggestions on suppliers?
If I can't find one I will have to fix the one I have I guess.
Any help would be great.
Thanks
hey man, long time no see. like these dudes said, its prolly the no spin. you will need the model number of the rear, inot sure what else the eaton came in.......maybe a franklin? replace the planetary to as that broke tooth will surely tear up the rest of it.
good to see ya, and pics of the skidder :)
Schaefer enterprises in wolf lake Illinois forestry salvage yard.
Quote from: treeslayer2003 on September 03, 2015, 07:08:14 AM
Quote from: Spartan on September 02, 2015, 11:51:32 PM
Been a while since I have been on the board.
Was wondering if there are any TJ guys out there that have dove into a differential on one of these.
I have a new to me 1976 TJ 450 skidder. Problem is that the right rear wheel is dead. Pulled the axles, they are fine. Needs a set of planetary on the same wheel but that is not the issue, they still spin when wheel is rotated so they are not binding (just one tooth broke off one gear and the pin is shot). I have gone through enough planetaries in a 518 to know that the drive axle does not stop if they bind and it tears them all apart. This axle did not do the same thing.
No weird noises I can hear when it rotates(but I don't hear much with the screaming jimmy) or even feel.
This has the Eaton axles in it and the "NO Spin" My guess is it is similar to CAT design.
This leaves me with the differential. My guess is that the problem lies in the "No Spin" Anyone ever had one apart?
Can you get parts?
I am currently also looking for a whole 3rd member to swap in for time sake, but am having trouble locating one. Suggestions on suppliers?
If I can't find one I will have to fix the one I have I guess.
Any help would be great.
Thanks
hey man, long time no see. like these dudes said, its prolly the no spin. you will need the model number of the rear, inot sure what else the eaton came in.......maybe a franklin? replace the planetary to as that broke tooth will surely tear up the rest of it.
good to see ya, and pics of the skidder :)
Hey there, hope things are well for you.
Quote from: ga jones on September 03, 2015, 07:08:14 AM
Schaefer enterprises in wolf lake Illinois forestry salvage yard.
I gave them a call at the end of yesterday, so we'll see if they get back to me. Thanks
Golden rule equipment has them also. There in pa
goggle general truck in Chicago il i bought one from them 3 yrs ago for a 30,000lb rockwell rear. about 1200. what used to be called a detriot locker is now a eaton no spin. they had the parts in stock to fix my old one but it was only 200 less
Quote from: ga jones on September 03, 2015, 11:00:43 AM
Golden rule equipment has them also. There in pa
where at in Pa? north, south? are they a jack place or got other stuff?
A Detroit Locker is a No-Spin with its own hemisphere, generally fitted to small applications like your 4x4. The No-Spins in skidders were always No-Spins.
Quote from: Neilo on September 03, 2015, 07:22:08 PM
A Detroit Locker is a No-Spin with its own hemisphere, generally fitted to small applications like your 4x4. The No-Spins in skidders were always No-Spins.
they are now made by eaton. they changed it a little. says eaton on it along with the box it came in. watch the vid on youtube eaton no spin
Golden rule is east central. junction of i81 and i78 myerstown.salvage yard has a lot of jacks. I would guess the axles are WR7 or maybe WR9 eatons? Maybe the older ones had different models.
Quote from: ga jones on September 03, 2015, 08:23:21 PM
Golden rule is east central. junction of i81 and i78 myerstown.salvage yard has a lot of jacks. I would guess the axles are WR7 or maybe WR9 eatons? Maybe the older ones had different models.
Mine are W5128
I monkeyed with it a bit today, when I brought it down to the road, the wheel bound a little with no axles in it, so the planetary might be giving me more grief than I thought. I am just use to the axle ripping through them if they bind smiley_huh2
I put the axle in the no spin without the planetaries in and tried to turn it with a pipe wrench (don't worry I used a rag) and it was solid, no give.
I might try to replace the planetary gear and shafts and see if anything is different. No one has gotten back to me on a pumpkin anyway.
Maybe with a little luck that will solve it and I won't have to shell out the coin.
My gut tells me it won't solve it but you never know.
Thanks for the part references guys.
How do you know the right rear doesn't drive? If it doesn't and the planetary gears and gears are intact, then it isn't a planetary problem only.
With the no spin, you should be able to jack a wheel up, rotate it a bit and feel the free play as the dog clutches move. If that wheel disengages in a direction, it will spin reasonably freely in that direction, but lock up again when you go the other way.
Quote from: Neilo on September 04, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
How do you know the right rear doesn't drive?
well I know forward doesn't work because I watched it when I hooked a large drag. three tires spinning, right rear dead. Also tried to climb a steep hill and it wouldn't make it. Every tire made a trench except the right rear.
I know, it probably is in the diff (no-spin), was just wishful thinking.
I can't spin the wheel right now cause I am alone today to work on it and the wheel is already off (as well as planetary housing)
not strong enough to put it back on by myself
Update...
Broken ring gear mount...
Golden Rule is helping me with the parts.
Thanks guys
I would also check the planetary if you saw the wheel drag with no axle in it
I already did as mentioned above. got a gear coming
Quote from: Spartan on September 04, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
Update...
Broken ring gear mount...
Golden Rule is helping me with the parts.
Thanks guys
you mean the carrier or the diff where the gear bolts on?
It is a plate that slides over the spindle that the planetary ring gear rides on and is held on it by a snap ring. It sheared right where the it goes over the spindle shaft. Thats why there was no drive. But it did not look broken cause the tire was still moving as the machine was rolling at the same time the axle shaft was turning the planetary, so it all looked like it was working.
Quote from: Spartan on September 04, 2015, 08:00:24 PM
It is a plate that slides over the spindle that the planetary ring gear rides on and is held on it by a snap ring. It sheared right where the it goes over the spindle shaft. Thats why there was no drive. But it did not look broken cause the tire was still moving as the machine was rolling at the same time the axle shaft was turning the planetary, so it all looked like it was working.
huh.........different than a clark or rockwell then. thats good then you won't have to pull the diff.
yeah no kidding. the axle housing would have to come off the machine... no room.
I pulled the drain plug on the diff, no chunks, nice smooth turning and not much play. I think its good to go. Little drip from the pinion seal.
BTW I was quoted $1200 for a used diff if they had one in good condition, and $3250 for a rebuilt one from General Truck. At least good to know that you can find some. I wasn't having much luck.
does not look as heavy duty of a unit as the 518 though, but then again we lost 3 planetaries in 3 years on that machine, some were original and that's a 40 yr old machine. the axle shafts themselves seem about the same size though.
Quote from: Spartan on September 04, 2015, 09:39:26 PM
yeah no kidding. the axle housing would have to come off the machine... no room.
I pulled the drain plug on the diff, no chunks, nice smooth turning and not much play. I think its good to go. Little drip from the pinion seal.
BTW I was quoted $1200 for a used diff if they had one in good condition, and $3250 for a rebuilt one from General Truck. At least good to know that you can find some. I wasn't having much luck.
does not look as heavy duty of a unit as the 518 though, but then again we lost 3 planetaries in 3 years on that machine, some were original and that's a 40 yr old machine. the axle shafts themselves seem about the same size though.
i herd cat was hard on planetary s
Quote from: treeslayer2003 on September 04, 2015, 10:49:14 PM
Quote from: Spartan on September 04, 2015, 09:39:26 PM
yeah no kidding. the axle housing would have to come off the machine... no room.
I pulled the drain plug on the diff, no chunks, nice smooth turning and not much play. I think its good to go. Little drip from the pinion seal.
BTW I was quoted $1200 for a used diff if they had one in good condition, and $3250 for a rebuilt one from General Truck. At least good to know that you can find some. I wasn't having much luck.
does not look as heavy duty of a unit as the 518 though, but then again we lost 3 planetaries in 3 years on that machine, some were original and that's a 40 yr old machine. the axle shafts themselves seem about the same size though.
i herd cat was hard on planetary s
I think it depends on the driver :) friend of mine had a 86 518 25 years never did a planetary
Spartan just curious if your planetary ends are the ones with the brass pins or the ones with the steel pins and needle bearings?
Glad you found the problem. For future reference, you do not have to remove the entire axle housing to get the third member out. Remove the axles, remove the drive shaft from pinion yolk, remove bolts that hold axle assembly to frame. Lift rear of machine , axle will rotate so that pinion is facing straight down . Set machine back on axle housing. Put a floor jack under pinion yolk and remove third member bolt and slowly let down with the floor jack. I made an adapter that bolted to the yolk and had a stud that went into the jack where the the round pad is.
Quote from: kiko on September 05, 2015, 09:18:13 PM
Glad you found the problem. For future reference, you do not have to remove the entire axle housing to get the third member out. Remove the axles, remove the drive shaft from pinion yolk, remove bolts that hold axle assembly to frame. Lift rear of machine , axle will rotate so that pinion is facing straight down . Set machine back on axle housing. Put a floor jack under pinion yolk and remove third member bolt and slowly let down with the floor jack. I made an adapter that bolted to the yolk and had a stud that went into the jack where the the round pad is.
LOL I guess I don't see how that's NOT removing the axle housing...
That does seem like an efficient way to do it though. Thanks.
Brass pins btw with oil channels in them.
Ahh yes I got a buddie with those planetary ends in a TJ 230D forwarder and come to think of it he has had that same problem twice. It broke right next to the bearing and the wheel could still turn no problem. We had the steel pin ones and never had an issue with those. Funney kiko we used to do the exact same thing to remove the front axle in the TJ only I didn't have the floor jack and I used a oil pail to catch the diff, good idea on the adapter plate though.
I have a milk crate with a 1x12 on the bottom for the jack and 2 holes cut in the sides big enough for my hand to put in 2 bolts the 3rd member fits in it great
So hopefully someone reads this that knows...
The planetary housing and backing plate holes for the pins that go through the planetary gears are egged a little and wallowed out...
so I am going to have them machined with a bushing inserted.
Are the planetary gear pins the same diameter on the ends as in the middle?
They look like they are grooved for oil on the ends.
I have new pins on the way but I am headed to the machine shop in the morning to get them started on it. the middle of my pins look fine and fit the gears fine so I was going to go off the measurements on those in the middle.
If anyone knows that would be a great help.
pr 75s are bigger in the middle the brass pin is about an inch on each end and maybe 2-21/2 in the center
I know that these are not that model.
Axle is W5128