New experience over the weekend

[Frickman]

Last week I was cutting a fairly steep hillside, steep enough that I couldn't turn the skidder around on it, a Deere 440B. As I was skidding uphill onto a flat, I had to back the skidder down the hill, hook up my hitch, and pull the hitch up to the flat. After a while I noticed motor oil leaking out of the motor at the rear of the motor, up around the head. I was losing two or three quarts a day of seven dollar a quart synthetic motor oil, so it was getting costly. I kept dumping oil in and running though as I had to get this hill cut before it got wet.

Friday evening I ran the skidder down the road to a cousin's garage and we commenced an investigation. Here's what happened. The oil line on the outlet side of the turbocharger dumps the oil down onto the head, and the oil then drains down into the block. As I was on a steep hill for so long the oil pooled at the rear of the head, and there aren't enough holes there for all the oil to run down into the block. Blowby pressure then forced this oil out a breather tube.

This motor has less than nine hundred hours on a complete rebuild, so I was hoping it wasn't something major. Going in I thought maybe it was the valve cover gasket leaking, an easy fix. It turned out to be an easier fix than that, just be careful when you're running up steep hills!

[low_48]

You might want to check with the dealer at what angle the engine is designed for. My Dad once spun a bearing in the semi when he left it idleing on a grain dump lift. The front main bearing was starved of oil at the extreme angle. I bet that makes you feel better?    I didn't mean to scare, just something for you to look out for.

Rich

[David_c]

Glad to hear it isn't going too cost you. Nice when that happens. Which isn't often.

[Frickman]

low_48,

Thanks for your thoughts, but that shouldn't be a problem with this motor. As long as you have good oil pressure all the main and cam bearings should be getting plenty of oil. Your Dad's bearing probably spun for two reasons. First, when an engine is idling there is greatly reduced oil pressure. Second, if a bearing has alot of wear the oil pressure is reduced more, especially at points far away from the oil pump. I don't have first-hand knowledge of your Dad's situation, but that is where I would have started looking.

I'm not an expert engine builder by any means, I've just been around them alot and blown up quite a few. Done some shade tree rebuilding too when I did blow them up or wore them out. The situation I had last week was a new one on me though.

The one place working on steep hillsides would affect is anywhere you depend on "splash oiling". I haven't ever had the valve cover off, so I don't know how this head and motor is setup. If it ever gave me a problem I could maybe install some "squirters" like we run on our race motors. That way you can direct pressurized oil where you need it.

The synthetic oil I am running should help me out some. It does not wipe off like conventional, mineral based oil, so I'll have extra protection when working on slopes.

[getoverit]

I dont know that engine, but I have to wonder if it would be possible to re-route the return oil from the turbo straight into the block or at least Tee off of the line and run it into both heads?

[Black_Bear]

Some of our older 640s used to have the blow-by problem which became real bad in extremely steep ground. The problem was never measured in quarts though, just in how thick the oil and debris film was on the engine. Other than that the only time we have ever had oil leaking out at that rate is when the skidder is on its roof. The first thing you do when you roll a skidder: check your pants and shut the machine off so the engine doesn't seize.

One good way to turn those Deere's around in midslope on steep ground is to get within cable range of the trees you are cutting during that hitch, get the skidder perpendicular to the slope, hook on to one of the uncut trees and use the tree weight to back up the slope. Use reverse and winch yourself up to where you need to be. This is where that 100' cable is useful.

Bunched hitches that were cut with a feller-buncher will also work if the bunch is big enough and the wood is heavy enough. Hook on to a tree that is on the bottom of the bunch and perform the same maneuver. You will have to take it easy on that winch though (feather it) or the wood will come to you instead of vice versa.

Hanging by your tail always adds some excitement to the day.

Ed

[crtreedude]

Sort of a side note - but on this thread - this is why I always buy two-cycle lawnmowers. Unless you lawn is flat, a two-cycle will out last you, but a 4 cycle on slopes will burn up real quick.

I learned that once upon a time and stop buying 4 cycle lawnmowers.

[Tom]

I like 2 stroke engines too.  The only problem with them is that the "protect the world" societies have just about got them all outlawed. 

One of the results of people getting on bandwagons and joining causes for the sake of politics, self-gratification and peer pressure without looking at the big picture.

[crtreedude]

Yeah, really helps the environment to be filling up landfills with dead lawnmowers...

[slowzuki]

For the rest of the world with flat lawns, a 2 stroke mower pollutes more in 20 min cutting the lawn than a new auto does in something like 8 hours driving.

I do own a 2 stroke mower though too   Only cause it is a lawnboy with a mag deck making it nice and light.

[sawguy21]

I don't care, 2 strokes rule. :D I wish I had kept my Toro 2 cycle mower. That thing would not quit and I never had to change the oil

[TeaW]

wow! from skidders to lawn mowers in one easy step.

[crtreedude]

We ain't on food yet - but it surely is coming.

[jrdwyer]

Strange that this is an issue for a skidder. I mean steep slopes are where lots of trees grow.

It seems that design mistakes (bad specifications or trying to save a buck by the manufacturer) are so common these days. I won't mention how many times the inferior intake manifold gaskets have been replaced on our 3.4L GM minivan engine. I would guess that this issue alone has affected millions of GM V-6 engines. I wonder if the manager who stamped the ok on this design got fired?

I don't have any skidder experience, but I know my air cooled ATV motor (dry sump) does fine on really steep slopes (no turbocharger though).

The only limitation I have with the ATV is the carb. on really steep slopes. If you happen to kill it in this situation, it can be difficult to start. It seems that fuel  injection is moving down the engine chain. If  I get a new ATV someday, I will get one with fuel injection.

I have used synthetic motor oil in our cars for over 10 years with great success.  I have 194K miles on a Mazda 1.5L and it still runs like new!

[slowzuki]

The minivans and the other engines with intake gasket issues is 100% caused by cast iron block and aluminum intake.  More heating and cooling cycles means sooner to fail.

Is your ATV really dry sump ?  Must mean a polaris 2 stroke?  I've only seen wet sump wheelers.  A dry sump would have a separate oil reservoir and a scavenging pump at the bottom of the crankcase.

[Sawyerfortyish]

I think the old 371&471 detroits are 2 stroke engines. There are a lot of skidders with those engines in them.

[scsmith42]

Slozuki, the Polaris Ranger 500's had a 4 stroke, one cylinder motor with a dry sump.  I think that their 500CC ATV's did too.

[slowzuki]

That is really neat to know, I think oil starvation would be reduced on a dry sump atv.  I've only seen it is race cars and planes so far but this would be an ideal application.

[jrdwyer]

I was wrong about my ATV being dry sump. For some reason I had it in my head that it was, but I double checked the service manual and it is a wet sump. It is Kawasaki's best selling ATV, the very basic Bayou 220. It works well on slopes and no oil starvation. It's only 8 years old, so I haven't had the need to rebuild the engine yet.

There are also dry sump models from Honda (Rancher) and many of the racing type ATVs.