what kills me ..

[Trc^]

What kills me is watchin the timber harvesters around here .. they have no respect for the propertie they are working at the time .. they just cut everything (just about) take what they want .. and leave a big mess. They dont even have the decentcy to push unwanted stuff into piles ..

Neighbors had 2 acres logged about a year ago, yes i know that is a small lot, the loggers hauled off 10 truck loads, and paid $400 for the bunch. Well here it is a year later and neighbors still havent gottn thier place cleaned up and it has cost them over $500 to do it.

I know of some people around here that will not even think of bringin a logger in to take pines out .. and cause the sawmills wont take from anyone but loggers .. well there are many stands of timber that is left to die and decay.  People are so mouthy about friendly to the enviorment .. but when you have the destruction of propertie and be a cause of a complete waste of a natural resource .. to me that is not being friendly to the enviroment at all.

Trc^

[Jeff]

Before I take the time to answer this fully, how about educating yourself some?

Go read this thread, and read the article about forests on the green spirit website.

Green Spitit thread.

Just seems your awfully quick to condemn a whole group for possibly 1 company's actions, and maybe its because you are only seeing what you perceive to look good or bad, not actually whats going on. Most loggers are consiencious about their work and their jobs, care about the environment and the forest from where they make and need to continue to make a living. They may have Children and grandchildren that work along with them, and they want the resource to thrive and continue.

Please read the suggested material and then come back and lets talk.

[Tom]

Hello Trc^,

I understand your ire because I get frustrated over people being taken to the cleaners as well.  Unfortunately the means to protect oneself and be in control of a harvest are not alway taken advantage of by a landowner.  

Two acres of harvest in this neck of the woods is called a land clearing operation. It is usually done to make way for development and the use of loggers and logging equipment is more a way of the landowner to get the job done cheap rather than an expectation of harvest and replenishing.  The loggers that get called to these jobs don't generally make much after they have moved all their equipment around and paid all their insurance premiums.

A mess on two acres may not look like a mess if it occurs on a clear cut of 50 acres.  Some urban landowners think of  logging the same as they do lawn care and expect everything to be raked up and placed beside the road.

I wonder what the logger realized as a profit from taking the trees down?  Stumpage prices to the landowner may be anywhere from halves to thirds when they deal directly with a logger.  At that, the logger may have grossed about 1200 dollars and the landowner got his trees removed and money to boot.

I don't mean to minimize the possibility that someone may have gotten rooked but you have to look at both sides of the deal.  

County foresters can help a landowner put together a contract that will define the responsibilities of both parties and he is paid by taxes.  A consulting forester may even be worth hiring on a small piece of property to manage the sale if the trees are really valuable species.

To get the property to the landowners expectations requires that the proper profession be hired to do the clearing.  It could be that he would have been better off with a Land Prep Contractor.

[L. Wakefield]

   It may be that 'what we have here is a failure to c'municate'. The landowner needs to make his/her expectations clear. And you can't deny that in every line of work there are people who bend over backwards to provide customer satisfaction- and those who practice the 'get' system as I heard it described years ago-'get in, get the job done, get your money, and get out'. Note that the agenda here is haste and minimal performance required to get paid. It happens in every job field. It does not result in callbacks or word-of-mouth business.

   What I have heard emphasized here on the board, in no uncertain terms, is that the aspiring businessperson in this line of work needs to have good communication skills and an eye to customer satisfaction at all times. It's like the Golden Rule of Logging- as it is in every line of work. The customer and the service provider BOTH have an obligation to formulate and execute a workable, reasonable contract.

   I know it's very hard to have a seeming troll show up and start making statements that seem to spread generalized blame. I'd say don't take it personally. YOU know YOU don't carry out shoddy customer relations. And you also correctly point out that there are different perceptions depending on large scale or small scale operations. But I suspect everyone here who cuts, has done so on small jobs and knows how to work out the details.

   I think the wise consumer DOES rely on word-of-mouth to get the skinny on performance expectations before setting up any type of contract.  lw

[Bud Man]

Sounds like a lack of Contract .  With firm contract in hand and dealing with people of reputable means this wouldn't happen and if it did, then that's where resolve comes into play. If a lousy job occurs then put the weight on the backs of the logger and don't pay him till the Contract is fulfilled. Better yet deal with reputable known loggers and stay away from the low bid.      "You Get What You pay for "

[Ron Scott]

Timber harvests need to be managed to meet your (the landowner's) objectives spelled out in your Harvest Contract.

[woodman]

   I think i here is buyer be were and you get whit you pay for.

[timberbeast]

If the slash is to removed,  piled or burned,  the contract will specify.  If there is no contract,  there can be no complaint.
A "logger" is not a guy who hits and runs a landowner and leaves a mess.  A "logger" is a guy who works carefully with the landowner to achieve the owner's need,  preferably along with a certified forester and a forestry plan.

"Loggers" don't abuse the resource which supports them.
"Bums"  do.