Log truck capacity and Log Pricing

[Ljohnsaw]

I'm getting down to the wire on my cabin build and I need some logs to continue.  I've cut all I can reasonable reach on my property as well as removing trees from my neighbors.  I ran across a "Free" ad on CL saying he had a stack of 40+ Ponderosa, mostly 33'.  He was also PAYING $500 to take them all.  About half are 12" SE - not too usable.  Well, after calling around, it looks like its $1,000-1,600/ load and probably 3 trips (90 mile one way).  So that is out.

Talking with a logger/trucker with a self-loader, he has a stack of pine ready to go.  He has "standard log truck bunks" so he says he can haul at least 4,000 bd-ft, probably will load more but charge on the 4k.  The local mill owns almost all the land around here so they don't utilize independent logger/truckers very much.  He said he could sell the logs for $325/1,000 at the mill down the hill.  My site is up the hill but the same distance.  He quoted me $350 since he is hauling up the hill instead of coasting down it with the load.

With the recent wide-spread fires and also the big bug-killed areas, all the loggers are really busy everywhere.  Its hard to get a hold of anyone let alone get them to haul some small job.

I guess I'm just looking for validation (understanding lots of variables in pricing) - Is it reasonable that standard bunks can hold 4,500 bd-ft?  Does $350/1,000 sound reasonable?  After paying nothing on 15,000 bd-ft of lumber, its hard to fathom spending $1,400 on a single truckload of logs.  When calculating the bd-ft of the logs on the truck, what is the appropriate scale used (I have a band mill)?  I marked 19 logs from 22" down to 15" SE.  He said he would probably load up between 10 and 15 logs plus a "free" short one or two.

TIA

[moodnacreek]

There is no standard log truck 'body' that I know of and even if there was the dia. of the logs can make a difference in the load scale. And that's for straight, full length logs.  The truck loads that I have scaled repeatedly I can guess the scale sometimes. Also I well know the max. they will carry. What I am saying is that only experience with the same trucks and similar logs will allow you to estimate scale.

[nativewolf]

I will give it a shot.  I have no idea what sort of self loader he has but even a smaller western star that I contract to on occasion can haul 3k+.  The larger the logs the more bdft he can get on there.  He's on the smaller end of self loaders so I see no problem in a larger one getting closer to 4.5mbf.

Today log hauling is about $4/loaded mile.  Maybe CA might be a bit more, @tule peak timber  might be able to give more insight into CA rates.  

It seems to me that the logger with some logs and a self loader willing to bring them to you is a good deal.  $350/MBF for good logs seems more than fair to me as well, really just splitting hairs and you need logs.  What's shocking?  It's cheap and you got to pick your logs.  Great deal, take it.

I can't believe he can pay for trees, cut, skid, and truck the logs to you and still make a living.  That's the shocking thing to me.  I personally don't do that sort of logging but know others who do and it is hand to mouth or leveraged up to eyeballs and working for a mill as a subcontractor.  If I send a truck out and it is less than $2k in logs I'm in cleanup/salvage mode. 

[Skeans1]

If it's a west coast style long logger with a single drop at least in Oregon you're legal up to 88k depending on spread, we don't use self loaders but if I had to guess you'd be around 4k for footage. Most of the west coast uses Scribner C for scale which runs in your favor it doesn't factor in taper of the log it's off the top diameter as well as length.

[Southside]

Nice clean pine at that rate is well worth it.  If you are using it for your own I can see where the $$ looks hard, but you have to consider the value of the product you are getting and if you sawed it to sell what it would be worth.  Around here I do better buying big logs by the ton vs BF and guys prefer to sell it that way, so everyone is happy. Funny, a 33' log with a 12" top is still a nice log here.  

[BargeMonkey]

I've got a rear mount with 25' of bunk and routinely get 4-4200 in smaller wood. 
 350 per MDFT isn't bad money if it's what you need, softwood prices are a little low here @ 300 for 13-16' and 250 on 10-12', I have a hard time getting rid of 8-6" wood, if its bony I cut it 8' and send to the shavings place. 

[Southside]

If I send a truck out and it is less than $2k in logs I'm in cleanup/salvage mode.

p

You can get $2K worth of pine on a truck here, just make sure the guy with the silver SUV does not see you on the road along the way. ;D

[BargeMonkey]

If I send a truck out and it is less than $2k in logs I'm in cleanup/salvage mode.

p

You can get $2K worth of pine on a truck here, just make sure the guy with the silver SUV does not see you on the road along the way. ;D

😂😂😂.... 

[Ljohnsaw]

Wow, Thanks for all the quick insight!

These logs are pretty good - he knows what I want and told me to mark what I need.  As far as taper, in 33', the worst had about 6" of taper but most were probably 4" or less.  Nice straight stuff (that I picked).  I know enough to reject the off-center pith logs and I told him why.  There were a few with a bit of sweep that I passed on as well.  He understood.  Over the phone they sounded better.  I told him I wanted 20" SE minimum but that's not happening for a full load - only 5 or 6 like that.

As far as making a living at that price, I get the feeling he is contracted (paid) to clear land and then has ownership of the trees so he is selling them to the mill or whoever will pay.  Maybe I have that wrong but I don't see how he could survive paying his crew and feeding his hardware without such a setup.

As far as hauling distance, its just under 60 miles.  So at $4/mile, $240 - that leaves $1,160 for the logs.  Though, most of the truckers I've talked to (hauling gravel/dirt) charge by the hour since the roads are so steep.  Typically $100-120/hour.  Fully loaded, he's probably going to take between 90 minute and 2 hours to get to me.  Works out about the same I suppose.

And the truck - it is the "western" style - log bunk on the 5th wheel plate area and a bunk mounted on a set of tandems with the long draw bar that steers the tandems on the tight logging roads trails.  His loader is behind the cab.  He is able to place his tandems on the tractor when empty.

[nativewolf]

I think he's treating you very fairly.  You got to pick the best logs for your sawing, that's leaving him much more marginal stuff to try to sell to someone else.  He is delivering so that is a load of worry off your mind.  He offered fair pricing at the get go, that speaks well of his mindset.  Further, and this could be important down the line...you are making a good contact that you might need later.  Treat him well and it could pay off in the future.

[Ljohnsaw]

I think he's treating you very fairly.

I think I agree with you after reviewing all the above.  It's just that in the back of my mind was stuck a number - but could just be faulty memory. :-\ I recall the price for a truck load of logs to be $350.  Don't know where that came from, its just stuck there being a yardstick that I've used (incorrectly) to value timber.  Maybe its that I dropped the "/1,000 bd-ft" when I ran out of room in my brain :

Reminds me of what my college Calculus professor said.  "Everyone has a rain barrel of knowledge.  As learning runs off the roof into the barrel, it collects.  When the barrel is full, some of the knowledge is lost over the edge."  He looked at one student and said, "you have a teacup". :D

[Maine logger88]

If I send a truck out and it is less than $2k in logs I'm in cleanup/salvage mode.

p

You can get $2K worth of pine on a truck here, just make sure the guy with the silver SUV does not see you on the road along the way. ;D

Yup I've had some scale slips in the 6500 bd ft range off self load wheeler on occasion but it would be expensive for the guy trucking if he got caught 

[barbender]

You have to look at the value/cost of the service he is providing with the delivery. How much would it cost you to move all of that wood yourself (including your time)? A load of 16' pine logs here (let's say 5000bf) would cost you around $1500, plus the hauling ($350-400 on a 100 mile haul). So at least $1850, and that's for 16's. Longer stuff would be considerably more.

[Mt406]

Here in SW Montana mills are paying 425 thousand. Most self loaded trucks haul 22-24 tons these are long logger 27-36 ft logs 
Average truck getting 1750$.
I am paying a premium for better logs at 85 a ton my loads are around 1850$ bd ft on truck 4-5000 depending how dry the logs are.
I would recommend looking at the logs if you can hand pick even better you will pay a premium for being a pain . it is worth it if you're buying one load and needing almost all your logs to work

[moodnacreek]

$425 M for softwood?  I have never paid more than 300 for any softwood except cedar. I think stud lumber sells retail for what these logs cost.

[Ljohnsaw]

I would recommend looking at the logs if you can hand pick even better you will pay a premium for being a pain . it is worth it if you're buying one load and needing almost all your logs to work

I did hand pick them.  Depending on how dry and how well they stack I will be getting most of what I tagged on one load.  I have him keeping an eye out for some 56-58' logs that I need 4 of in the near future.

[Skeans1]

@ljohnsaw 
Poles? Now you're talking really good money.

[Ljohnsaw]

Speaking of log trucks and loads...

oops!
12:30 or so


 
1:45


 
Took a couple hours to clean up.  There is a self loader setting up on the left.

[Southside]

Was that not where they were supposed to be delivered?   Just figured it was an older trailer with break away bolsters.  :D

[RPF2509]

$350 / thousand bf p-pine delivered is close to the current going rate in CA.  A 4000 -4500 mbf load with a self loader is in the ball park and still be legal. An adverse uphill haul will be more expensive.  Mills are choked with burned wood at the moment and all loggers are busy since its the dry time.  Trucks are in short supply.  You are lucky to find someone to haul logs - get them while you can.

[Ljohnsaw]

I'm still waiting for him to fit me into his schedule...

[Ljohnsaw]

I updated in the wrong thread.  For those waiting for news...

My log truck came up Friday afternoon.  He mentioned that some of the logs that I numbered were only 26' so he swapped them out for some 33'ers.  The only problem is I wanted those fat shorter ones for my cross beams.  As he pulled in, I saw a number of pretty skinny logs and was pretty upset.  Then I noticed most were ones that I numbered.  I guess I shouldn't plan on being a timber selector for a living!!! ;)  What I thought was the small end turned out to be the big end. :(


 

 

 

 

 
He felt bad (but not bad enough to credit me anything).  He did mention that the wood was lighter from sitting so he said there was a good 4,500 bd-ft on this load.  He maxed out his on-board scales.  When he was done, he said he had a job about 5 miles up the road from me.  He said there would be about four 20' logs that would work for me and he could drop them off for free.  He also said he would like to drop useful logs at my place in the future (if working in the area) to save his customers disposal fees 8)

When he was done, he was swinging his grapple to grab a loop of cable at the base of the rear bunk.  The boom telescoped in and then had a double hinge that stayed attached but allowed the trailer to fold up onto the tractor.  I thought that was pretty neat.

 
Later, I tossed one on the mill and started working on it before dark.


 

The next day, I had two helpers and we processed the rest of this log and 3 others with a total of 772 (correction) 894 bd-ft of usable lumber.  I was having issues with the band attempting to come off the front at the end of the cuts and a bit of diving.  Sunday morning I adjusted the guide rollers and still would dive on occasion.  The band jumped and destroyed itself near the end of second cut in the log.  That is when I noticed the bearing on the drive side had failed again - I'm sure it was the root of all the problems. :-\  Off to Pick-n-pull for a new hub.

[Skeans1]

I updated in the wrong thread.  For those waiting for news...

My log truck came up Friday afternoon.  He mentioned that some of the logs that I numbered were only 26' so he swapped them out for some 33'ers.  The only problem is I wanted those fat shorter ones for my cross beams.  As he pulled in, I saw a number of pretty skinny logs and was pretty upset.  Then I noticed most were ones that I numbered.  I guess I shouldn't plan on being a timber selector for a living!!! ;)  What I thought was the small end turned out to be the big end. :(


 

 

 

 

 
He felt bad (but not bad enough to credit me anything).  He did mention that the wood was lighter from sitting so he said there was a good 4,500 bd-ft on this load.  He maxed out his on-board scales.  When he was done, he said he had a job about 5 miles up the road from me.  He said there would be about four 20' logs that would work for me and he could drop them off for free.  He also said he would like to drop useful logs at my place in the future (if working in the area) to save his customers disposal fees 8)

When he was done, he was swinging his grapple to grab a loop of cable at the base of the rear bunk.  The boom telescoped in and then had a double hinge that stayed attached but allowed the trailer to fold up onto the tractor.  I thought that was pretty neat.

 
Later, I tossed one on the mill and started working on it before dark.


 

The next day, I had two helpers and we processed the rest of this log and 3 others with a total of 772 bd-ft of usable lumber.  I was having issues with the band attempting to come off the front at the end of the cuts and a bit of diving.  Sunday morning I adjusted the guide rollers and still would dive on occasion.  The band jumped and destroyed itself near the end of second cut in the log.  That is when I noticed the bearing on the drive side had failed again - I'm sure it was the root of all the problems. :-\  Off to Pick-n-pull for a new hub.

The cable loop is what we call a load strap, the extensions in the trailer that slide in and out are a two stage reach, the part that folded into the truck frame is a stinger. Depending on how a truck is setup with axles frame length or in this case a self loader the stinger replaces the "frame" length helping the trailer track better.

[Ljohnsaw]

Thanks for the info.  I'm pretty familiar with how log truck are able to track on the logging roads with their stinger.  I had a lot of toy trucks as a kid ;) :D  I see the "normal" log trucks with the trailer loaded up with the separate "tongue" resting above the cab.  I didn't look close at his trailer expecting him to lift it up like a normal trailer and wondered where it was going to fit the tongue with the grapple being in the way.  This folding up took just seconds to do.  Pretty slick.

[Southside]

Well from the sounds of the way things went you are "In the chips" and that's a good place to be.   8)