Tips & Advice on using a 3 point Skidding Winch

[iowaowb]

I have been reading about and wanting a three point winch for several years now. I have with help from you guys decided to go ahead and purchase one this week. It is a Wallenstein X90. I know from reading about them that I want to keep the pulls as straight in line with tractor as possible and to use a snatch block to help with that. The tractor is a New Holland TN70da with a loader on it. We have a lot of ravines to pull logs and tops out of and have recently had a major storm come through our area this summer and created a huge mess on our 250 acres of timber (that shoved me off the fence of getting one). Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. There is a lot of leaners hung up in trees that I need to get down to.

[GAB]

iowaowb:
First things first: welcome to the Forum.
Second be very careful dealing with trees that were knocked over by the wind.
Sometimes (not always) when you cut the tree from the stump the stump springs back very fast so make sure you have no pets or children around.  To add to the confusion sometimes the stump rolls the other way and you need to be prepared for that.
When cleaning up after a wind storm you need to be very very careful.  I would suggest having a spotter for safety's sake, and a second saw to free the first one.
Gerald

[chuckthompson]

I have a 90 & use with my 40hp new Holland.  It will PULL.  So, start out using it with the tractor at idle.  You'll have plenty of power even at idle & 'things' happen QUICKLY at 1500rpm - if you get my drift...  Make sure that you fully engage the clutch on the winch (pull string all the way).  Slipping will reduce clutch life, of course!  I don't tend to use any of the slots on the winch frame except to carry choker chains.  Usually just skid with the cable drum dog engaged - it hasn't hurt my winch at all doing that.  BUT, watch going around tight corners with the load all on the top pulley - can tip tractor just like pulling sideways!  If you have a trailer hitch, you might want to remove it - it just gets beat up.  I hang my trailer hitch on one of the 'fingers' on the side of the winch.  The finger on the opposite side I use as a winch cable keeper when deadheading.  I just slide the cable thimble over it.  I did have an Amish guy make a nylon cover for mine, which I keep on the winch when it's left outdoors.  Also bolted a couple of ammo cans to the front guard cover of the winch to store stuff (wedges, snatch block, spare pins, etc.).  A great tool, in my opinion - enjoy & be careful!

[thecfarm]

Seem like that is a 70hp tractor. A good size to help you. I lower the winch and the loader. Putting the loader all the way is a good habit to get into. Not that I think it has ever really amounted to anything in the 20 years I have been using a winch. But you never know. I suppose you have to set the brake on your tractor when you are not in the seat.I put a rolling hook on the log that I am hooking up too. I put the hook way down to the ground so the log will roll. This makes it easier to start the pull and any limbs you miss will come to the top. I use the rope on the winch. Get away from the winch. You may bring some limbs in or a smaller tree might get pushed up to you. If cutting trees and it gets hung up and is still connected to the stump,that rolling hook should be used. Much easier to roll it off,or break it off, by twisting it off the stump. The hook does have to be put on the correct side to roll it too. I have seen my winch,when winching a log in,plow the ground up,move small rocks,plow up roots. Than I have seen it stop with nothing to cause a problem. That's when the snatch block will come in handy. Just moving it a few feet works. I do not dog my winch in until the logs are up by the winch. This is a good idea with those leaners. They can come down and jump in the air a few feet. With no way to get any more cable,things can go wrong real quick. Get a hard hat,safety glasses,steel toes boots,chaps. What will be the worse on that ravine is having to go up and down to the tractor. I work alone and it's a bother to go back and forth to the tractor. If you have a good size twitch,really more than you should,and you come to a small hill,good idea to not look behind you too long. That front end could come up and by the time you realize it,it might be too late.I have a clutch on my tractor and I can push on that and the front end will come down mighty quick.I cut my stumps down real low. I keep my trails free of brush. I like to limb the trees out,then haul them out. The limbs can act as a plow and really tear the ground up.I also cut anything I leave in the woods about 2-3 feet long. Get the brush on the ground is a big thing. It will rot pretty quick if not sticking up in the air. Also much safer to drive through it too if it's not sticking up in the air. I try to keep my trails straight.  :  But with rocks,wet holes,and uneven ground it can be hard. Probably with 70hp you would not notice the diffeance in pulling tree lenght or cutting the tree in half. I feel it pulls harder hanging way back there.

I took this idea from billm for my saw.



 

Than on the other side is my gas and oil.



 

I also have a chainsaw wrench on each side of the tractor. I put it through a hole on the floor.
And it's impossible for us to tell you about every danger that you will encounter. Just think about how to do it diffearntly when you get those close calls. We can all be "lucky" just so many times.
If you put your chainsaw on the ground,put it behind a tree. A tree that you can not get to with the tractor.

[John Mc]

As Gerald mentioned, storm damage cleanup can be very difficult. It's not just the stumps you have to worry about. There can be all sorts of unexpected tension and force on the trees. This can be difficult to "read". It's easy to get caught when something lets go, smacking you, or sending your saw flying (hopefully away from you).

Take the time to stop and think things out prior to cutting. If you haven't done much of this type of work before.

It took a bit of digging, but here's a link to a description Farmi put out a while ago about using a logging winch.  I'm not sure how much good it will do you, but might be of interest:  Farmi Tree Harvesting Method

[wfcjr]

Always ensure that tractor & winch are properly anchored. 

If you have "a lot of leaners" you may have to cut the supporting trees first.
As someone else has already mentioned, be careful & think through the primary, secondary & tertiary impact of any cutting.  What are the first order, second order
& third order impact if I cut this tree in this manner?

Think through the drag similarly, those pto skidding winches are very powerful and they can drag logs with unforeseen & unwanted consequences if the drag route & all obstacles are not well thought through.

You may want to consider waiting until the leaves fall so that you have a clearer picture of how the leaners are hung up and where things are likely to fall  Also, firm or frozen ground & tire chains can make for better traction than soft ground, particularly if soft & wet.

Depending upon length & direction of drag to a clear spot or road, you may consider a self-releasing snatch block to re-direct a drag. 

If you have or buy a Wallenstein, the protective screen is a great place to mount
a chainsaw scabbard.  Can be mounted so that saw is safely stowed & out of the way.

We have the Wallenstein 90 and it has been a very good purchase.

[Maine372]

it really nice to lean on the tractor tire while winching in. but when the log stops the tractor runs you over pretty quick. stand at string length so if the tractor comes to the log you aren't in its path.

we tied the control ropes to a bungee cord on the rops. keeps them up out of the way and the bungee stretches when you pull the cord.

[nctacoma]

Interesting that the farmi guide says to hitch to the top of the tree instead of the butt. Does anyone else do this?  They say it will help prevent digging in and catching on the stump.

[thecfarm]

Most times I grab the butt. But have hooked on to the top too. But I aim for the big end of the tree. Whatever works for you.

[John Mc]

If I'm trying to bring out some branches with the tree, I hook on to the butt.  If not, which end I hook on to depends on which direction I dropped it. My felling direction decision usually made by a combination of which direction will avoid damage to surrounding trees on the way down, and where I'm likely to be winching from.

I have noticed that pulling form the lighter end does tend move a bit easier. I guess it lifs up off the ground more easily? Pulling from the heavy end, it's more likely to start moving along the ground before it lifts up.

[ScottAR]

I'm thinking the whole hook to the top idea is that one would fall the tree toward the trail/winch.  Don't have to pull the log over or around the stump.  In practice I doubt this is always feasible.

[iowaowb]

First of all thanks to all that have responded. Greatly Appreciated!!! I did go and get the winch Wednesday completed installing last nite (had to cut pto shaft to length). And did a test pull on three dead elms that were blown down. We took everything slow and double checked everything and it went really well. Liked that we could pull all three at the same time lock the drum and take them to the shed. Looking forward to this weekend to really try it out (if the weather cooperates). Cfarm do you have pictures of the ammo boxes bolted to the winch? That sounds like a good idea. I wasn't sure what to do with the snatch block and extra chokers. Thanks again for the responses.

[thecfarm]

The boxes came on the winch.



 

The boxes are made out of 1/8 metal.  They are bolted to the winch. They are not all that big. They are 6 inches square. I added on to the top. I would think they are 8 inches deep.  Click onto the camera under my user name and that will bring you to my gallery. I have posted other pictures of my winch, the pictures are in rays logging.

[NHMike]

All the tips given are good advice.  Just take it slow, and always keep an eye on both the log and the tractor.  The winches are very powerful and bad things can happen faster than you think.  I always like to stand out the full length of the pull cord just in case. 

My winch and tractor are baby's compared to what you have, but you will enjoy using it.  I know I am always impressed by what my little farmi will pull in.

Couple winters ago, even used it to pull my truck out of the ditch and snow bank when the driveway iced over.

Stay safe, and take lots of pictures for us.

[JDeere]

I have tractor logged on and off for 30 years. Knowing what I know now I am surprised I never got seriously injured. Some great advice given by thecfarm and others above. One thing I never gave any thought to when I first started was getting hit by falling limbs or trees. All you have to do is bump a diseased or dead tree and the top can break off and injure or kill you. The best advice I could give you is think about every step. Stay Safe!

[EFR]

I've probably pulled 150+ cord with a Farmi winch.  Great tool within its limitations.  I find it much easier to pull when the ground is frozen.  Logs skid across the top without digging in. 

[g_man]

I have tractor logged on and off for 30 years. Knowing what I know now I am surprised I never got seriously injured. Some great advice given by thecfarm and others above. One thing I never gave any thought to when I first started was getting hit by falling limbs or trees. All you have to do is bump a diseased or dead tree and the top can break off and injure or kill you. The best advice I could give you is think about every step. Stay Safe!

Welcome to the forum. You are getting good advise. This line is especially important to me. I am still here dispite several close calls. It is just a matter of luck. There are so many things you can't predict even when experienced. When you are just starting out you are in a much worse situation and very vulnerable to mishap. So go slow, go small, and enjoy your new winch. Dead stuff in the air and dead vertical trees you can catch while winching or skidding are bad enemies. Working on hung trees can be worse. Enough preaching.

I winch trees/logs out which ever way is easiest after making all the considerations. Felling safty, limiting damage to keep trees, position for winching to trail or tractor thru or over obstacles. Winching from the butt is good because skidding with the butt raised is easier than skidding with the butt draging at the tail end of the hitch. Winching from the top is good if you have to winch thru a lot of slash. The top tends to float up over the slash where the butt would plow thru it and make a harder pull. Some time I cut the limbed tree in the center and pull both ends from the middle. There is no right or wrong wayto winch. Do what makes the hole operation go smoothest.

FWIW This is my tractor set up



 



 



 

[chester_tree _farmah]

Very nice set up gman. I see u have saws that match your tractor.  :-)

I have to agree with deer on the ROPs. Folks really should have a canopy over their heads when driving machines in the woods like we do.

Ray - I see your tractor is from Kramers. I bought my 1720 there in 84. Best price, best folks I ran into when buying. The owner himself trucked it all the way up here for too.

[thecfarm]

chester,I like them too. When I need filters,I just call and David,the salemans there,he lives on the other end of Chestreville,drops them off for me.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Nice. Is he the son? Family run place there.

[thecfarm]

Oh no,Dave is 70 something. No relation at all. They use to have a women at the parts counter. She knew her stuff. She is not there now.

[milkie62]

I am fairly new and been looking into getting the Farmi 501 or the Wallenstein x90.Some good tips on usage here.I also want to build a grapple for my FEL.I have a Kubota M6800.

[iowaowb]

Thanks again for the responses. They were very helpful. We took things slow and still moved a lot of wood off of our trials there is a lot more to do and I have a lot more to learn about using the winch to its full potential. It is surprising how powerful it is, if what your pulling gets hung up, the tractor is going backwards even with the winch on the ground, brakes locked, and in 4x4. The ground was so hard and dry the dozer blade on winch would not dig in very well.

[kjp]

I usually try to rest the dozer blade on my winch against a large rock or a decent stump. keeps the tractor from sliding but need to be quick on the rope as it can be quite a jolt when you do get hung up

[thecfarm]

iowaowb,sounds good.
No problem with finding a big rock on my land.  :