Railroad Tanker

clif · October 14, 2004, 11:04:21 AM

Hi All! I have been following this Forum with much interest for almost a year now and I have learned Much

I have an opportunity to get a railroad tanker ( oil) for a song and a dance 8) and I am wondering if it would be feasible to convert it into a dry kiln. It is 6'5'' in dimeter and 28' long in excellent condition. I am thinking of a vac kiln and would be very interested in any comments, instruction, etc. Serg's thread has been very informative and got my brain in gear when I saw this tanker. :P ??? I am anticipating drying Birch, Spruce, and Cottonwood.

Ianab · October 14, 2004, 03:43:46 PM

Hi Clif and welcome to the forum.

I dont think the oil tank is going to cut it as a vacum chamber, they just aren't strong enough :(

The local dairy company uses a suction system to empty their road tankers of milk in a matter of seconds. If the driver forgets to open the vents at the top, the tank implodes :

They have killed a couple over the years.

Doesn't mean you couldn't convert the tank to a more conventional type kiln.

Ian

Den Socling · October 14, 2004, 04:16:45 PM

I'm not so sure that I agree with our Kiwi. ;) A railroad tanker is probably very rugged. And the size is perfect.

BTW next week, my Kiwi associates are bringing me a jar of Marmite? Marlite? Marmalite? Marmutmite.... what's that stuff again? :D

Ianab · October 14, 2004, 04:21:39 PM

guess we have to hook up a pump and find out :D

And you in in for a treat with the Marmite :D

Fla._Deadheader · October 14, 2004, 04:31:39 PM

If Clif is following Sergeys ideas, won't he just be pulling a ½ vacuum ???

Furby · October 14, 2004, 11:12:17 PM

Well someone try it!
There are several of these near my grandparents place. Just sitting in the woods where they were dumped. :-/

serg · October 15, 2004, 03:29:53 AM

Clif, hi! You want to do(make) the vacuum chamber itself ???? Sergey

clif · October 16, 2004, 01:00:48 PM

If I can determine that it will not implode I would be very interested in trying to make my own vacuum kiln from the tanker. I tried to post a picture of it, but I got an error message I do not understand. The tanker appears to be made from two different size cylinders with .5 inch walls. The one fits inside the other and the 3" overlap has a double set of large rivets. this makes for a 1" thick band every 5-6' >:( A picture is worth a thousand words! It also has been pressure tested to 60 #; however I would imagine a vacuum is quite different.

Den Socling · October 16, 2004, 01:36:17 PM

I don't think you could implode that beast of burden. :D A vacuum can't put more than 14psi on the cylinder. It's just that it's pushing in and not out.

Tom · October 16, 2004, 02:11:34 PM

I'll be doggone!! I never thought of it like that. :D

The absence of air pressure at sea level couldn't generate more than the pressure of the atmosphere at sea level, could it. That just de-mystifies a lot of my conceptions of vacuum.

I've seen pictures of all manner of containers crushed by someone removing the air from inside. I never really thought about the damage being done by only 14 lbs.

Those snake-oil salesman type home-owner vacuum pumps for sealing foodstuffs in an "airless" container make for good showmanship. They puff up marshmellows and crush aluminum drink cans and I'll bet, all with less pressure than generated by a good floor "vacuum" cleaner. :D

This doesn't sound nearly as difficult, mechanically, as it did before. ;D Maybe I'll start thinking about sucking the air out of something. That could be fun. ;D

james · October 16, 2004, 02:51:07 PM

tom thats psi a coke can has about 36 sqquare inches of surface area at 14 psi that is like putting a 500lb weight on it

your right just about any vacume will do it :P :P

Den Socling · October 16, 2004, 03:03:10 PM

14 lbs doesn't sound like much until you factor in the square inches. The 8' side of our big chambers, for example, has to bear 403,000 lbs. That's crushin'! When I've asked ME's to evaluate chamber designs, they often look pale after they plug the data into their computers. ;D

One time, I wanted to work on the piping at the bottom of a 275 gallon tank of oil. I hooked a shop vac to the top so that the oil couldn't pour out while I had the pipe apart. The sides of that tank started popping inward in no time at all. It was tricky maintaining enough vac to hold the oil without crushing the tank.

serg · October 17, 2004, 08:23:50 AM

Clif, hi! I looked a picture. 8) Give me the sizes length, diameter, thickness of metal, what mark of metal. I shall stay(lead) calculations. I shall inform Sergey.

rebocardo · October 23, 2004, 08:38:09 PM

> for sealing foodstuffs in an "airless" container make
> for good showmanship.

Yea, I always wondered about that. I thought you did not want an airless enviroment for food unless it was boiled to kill botulism and such.

Does it really keep all that much longer?

I have used my electric impulse sealer just fine without taking all the air out.

I would measure the weakest/thinnest side of the tank. Being doubled wall, if the inner is completely sealed from the outer, the outer might support the inner pretty well.

I would think 1/2" of even mild steel would be up to the task since it's yield strength is probably 18k pounds or better.

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · November 13, 2004, 10:11:47 AM

And NOW, for some clakulation: :P

Surface of outer cylinder = 3.1416X78"X28'X12" = 83,335sq.in.

Surface of two end caps for tanker = 3.1416X39"X39"Xtwo ends = 9,556sq.in.

Total surface nominal 91,891 sq.in.
multiplied by 14lbs per sq. in. equals 1,286,485.
pounds at full vacuum or 643,243 lbs. at 1/2 vac.

Hummmmmm?
Who knows, with some longitudinal bracing, it might just work. Either it would work, or you would have a double-layer metal-plated load of wood at the end of the day.

It might be worth it, just to see that happen! :D :D
Phil L.

serg · November 14, 2004, 11:20:55 AM

Hello! Den, can give me the information in centimeters? Sergey

fencerowphil (Phil L.) · November 14, 2004, 01:57:44 PM

Hello Serg

1 linear inch = 2.54 cm.
1 foot = 30.48 cm.

You probably have these conversion factors already. It is still a lazy Sunday afternoon here, so I leave the calculation for Newtons or Pascals to you.
Phil L.

serg · November 14, 2004, 11:11:51 PM

Hello! I, have conducting calculation external vacuum of pressure of a 1-kilogram square of centimeter. Thickness of steel has been taken with 0.1 centimeters.??? Diameter of 195 centimeters. It longly the tanker of 853 centimeters. Vacuum 0.09 problems, inside the tanker two rings to create durability. Sergey

clif · November 17, 2004, 10:10:43 PM

I went looking at my"vacuum kiln" and found out that it is 2/3 full of gear lube. It will be interesting trying to empty it, hopefully some kind of pump will do it before it gets too cold :D Sergey the walls are 1/2 " or 1.27 cm thick and every 6' (183cm) the wall overlaps 3" (7.6cm) around the circumference and is 1" (2.54cm) thick in those areas. Clear as mud??? ???. You would think I would be getting good at explaining since my wife is from Moscow. Maybe I will have to learn this language yet :D If I understood this computer a little better I am sure there is a way to draw a picture. The end of the tank is convex and I do not know if it would be best to cut a hole in the end or cut the whole end off!!! :P I thought I read somewhere that the door needs to slide out before it hinges open?

Furby · November 19, 2004, 04:57:15 PM

What ya going to do with all that gear lube???

serg · November 20, 2004, 10:28:54 AM

Clif hi! Lubricating oil is explosive as to work welding? ???

clif · November 21, 2004, 12:00:19 AM

Part of my deal is to help the owner to get the gear lube out and into 55 gal. drums. I suppose if we wait a month or so we will be able to just go in there and cut it into blocks with a knife. :D :D :D :D :DThanks Serg, we sure do not want any explosions.