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Wood to heat your house???

Started by chazmonro, October 08, 2005, 12:38:53 AM

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chazmonro

Ok, I live in northern Illinois and my 30 year old gas furnace is on the way out. Years ago I saw an episode of This Old House where they visited a place in Germany (I think) where they made furnaces that could burn wood and gas. It was very efficient, and it had very little emissions. Of course they used it to heat water for radiant heating, but I'd need it for forced air. My question is this, anyone have anything good or bad to say about using wood to heat my home and or can anyone tell me of a good brand name to look into or somewhere I might be able to find more information. I'd like this to be an indoor furnace, not one of those outdoor ones. I'd appreciate all forms of responses, you can even flame me if you must. Umm I should probably post the question weather you guys think wood will be cheaper in the long run than natural gas. I have a feeling it will be, but I need to do some more research around here for prices.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Chuck

JimBuis

Welcome to the forum Chuck.  In case you are not yet aware of it, there are a couple of different approaches to such furnace designs.  One is to have a wood furnace that is an auxiliary furnace to an existing furnace of a different sort.  For example, you might have a gas furnace with the wood furnace sitting physically adjacent to it so that both can use the same duct work.  Another design is to have one furnace that is built for multiple fuels.  There are a bunch of different companies that make these things.  I cannot recommend one, sorry.
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

GAV64

The boiler made by TARM is duel fuel but it is oil and wood and for radiant heat. Maybe try AHS I think they  are in PA. glenn

old3dogg

If you have the money go with an out door wood/coal burnner. They wiil burn anything, the mess is outside and you omly have to fire it twice a day. They will set you back around 7 grand for a good one. :(

SwampDonkey

They pretty much abondoned the wood/oil combinatin furnaces here. In fact the company that installed them back in the 70's won't even service them any longer. What I have is two furnaces side by side, wood and oil, that use the same duct work. I use wood for most of the heating except fall and late spring months where wood is too hot. Remember with wood, it's all or nothing as far as the heat. There is no shutting off and on like an oil or gas furnace. I use wood because oil at $650 a barrel (900 litres) only represent 1.5 cords of seasoned hardwood. And for the same money I can get 3.5 cords of wood. Wood heat is far superior with a good furnace.

Here is a sight to help your research, they've been in business a very long time.

http://www.enterprise-fawcett.com/furnaces.php

USA Dealers

You can search the forum for discussions on wood burning and flu cleaning, the search button is up in the menu bar
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

If you have to buy wood, then your savings would be a lot less.  Some guys are pegging their prices to the price of oil.  Rule-of-thumb: 1 cord wood = 1 ton coal = 100 gal oil.  Not sure of the trade offs on gas or electric.

Coal is usually a cheaper heat.  Oil, gas and electric are more convenient.  Efficiency is another factor to look at.

I saw a wood stove that connected into your ductwork and worked with a themostat.  Actually, it was more like a fireplace.  When the main room heated to a certain temp, the excess heat would go into 2 heating ducts and was distributed around the house.  Might be a sensible appoach is you can tie it together.
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Sawyerfortyish

Check ebay out. What I would do is type in wood furnace or something like that see what comes up. If something interesting along the lines of what your looking for comes up do an internet search for that manufacturer. Sometimes you can buy brand new off of a company selling on ebay. I think there is or was a gas wood combo on there just a couple days ago. I did a search for outdoor wood furnace.

EdK

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on October 08, 2005, 07:31:58 AM
If you have to buy wood, then your savings would be a lot less. 

I totally agree with Ron on this part. At the $250-$300/cord I'm seeing reported now it doesn't make any sense. Why even bother with wood if the price is the same or even more than gas/oil? Of course that is for now - I believe the price of gas and oil is still headed up - way up.

A wood furnace does not have to be an all-or-nothing/windows wide open hot or freezing 'cause the fire's out proposition. The key is installing thermal storage to buffer the excess BTU's created by the boiler. When the boiler is supplying more heat than the house can use, excess heat is stored. When the fire is on the wane or out, that heat stored supplements and later replaces the boiler as heat source - until it is exhausted. This way you also burn a hot fire, maximizing efficiency while minimizing chimney deposits and objectionable smoke to the greatest degree possible.

The thermal storage can be expensive however in my opinion it really is key to an indoor boiler installation. Also it can be used as double-duty to store heat from solar panels if you ever decided to go that way - and there are tax credits over the next two years to encourage you to do so.

Onthesauk

I have burned wood, in three different houses, for 25 years now.  Now have 40 acres and able to cut all my own wood and burn in a Hearthstone stove.  I still look at it as supplemental heat.  The propane furnace will heat the house in the mornings before we are up and I start a fire first thing when I get up.  Furnace goes off after an hour and usually doesn't run again all day.  When we get into colder weather, below freezing here in the NW, the furnace might run occasionally.  I like the dry heat and would probably have a stove even if I had to buy wood.  I enjoy cutting wood, believe the excercise is good for me and maybe save a little money when it is all said and done.

Need to do your reasearch if you look at adding wood heat.  Real code issues in our area over the boilers in detatched buildings. 
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SwampDonkey

Quote from: chazmonro on October 08, 2005, 12:38:53 AM
Of course they used it to heat water for radiant heating, but I'd need it for forced air.

I'd like this to be an indoor furnace, not one of those outdoor ones.

This is what I was responding to. You folks to the south have cheaper stove oil, but up north $300 a cord is still cheaper than oil. I don't get paid for handling the wood and I don't pay tax on my own handling labour, so ya can't figure that's worth too much or the government would be wanting their share. ;) :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ohsoloco

I still can't believe that wood is selling at $300 a cord in some areas  :-\  Been around electric heat my whole life, and this past winter I loved the wood heat  :)  It's just a stove in the basement that heats the whole house, so I don't know anything about the furnaces, but I've heard good things about the Riteways...but not sure if they are made anymore.

That wood heat spoils ya...by the end of winter I thought it was chilly in the house if it got below 75  :D  I should get a cast iron kettle to put on the stove to put some moisture in the house.

Just think, if you get a wood furnace you have an excuse to buy a new chainsaw  8)

bitternut

My first stove was a Riteway in the basement. It worked great except that it was way to big for my house and I had it throttled back so much that I would usually have a chimney fire about every three weeks. Remember it is better to be undersized than oversized when selecting a stove. They need to run hot enough to keep the chimney clean.

I ended up getting a free 100 gallon electric water heater and tied that in to my domestic hot water line. The electric part was non functional of course. I made a 6" diameter by 16" long stainless heater that was placed at the rear of the firebox. I placed it vertical with the inlet at the bottom and the outlet at the top. The 100 gallon water tank sat next to the stove and I had a convection loop between the heating cylinder and the 100 gallon tank. This tank then was plumbed into my original 50 gallon electric water heater. Made for real cheap hot water when the woodstove was in operation. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat so take your time and look for what might work for your situation. Just make sure you don't put a woodstove chimney into another heating devices chimney.

SwampDonkey

Here's my setup. ;)






When you setup your wood furnace they recommend the stove pipe to have 1 and 3/4 inch rise for every foot of length and minimum number of bends and elbows as possible. Your not seeing that here because we had to work with limited space and the existing flu thimble as well as the 4 inch concrete slab from the old furnace. I clean my pipes every month and burn seasoned wood and I probably have a cupful of soot in the process.


This diagram shows the airflow in a two furnace setup using the same duct work. My oil furnace is supplimentary heat when I'm away from home. My settup is reversed from the diagram.

I had a question from a member whether there was baffeling in this setup and I believe not. The oil company installed my setup so I have limited knowledge there.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Grawulf

Thanks SD - are they hooked into one thermostat or do they each have separate ones?

SwampDonkey

Grawulf, they are separate.



This is a 'fan and limit control box' with a thermometer that is 11-1/2 " long, there is one each for the wood and oil furnaces. There is also a 3rd limit control box without a thermometer that is used as a fail safe to control the fan if the fan control on either furnace goes. I just replaced this limit control on the wood furnace 2 weeks ago. The symptom was that the fan would not shut off. I have a master power switch mounted on the oil furnace to shut'r down. In this case it turned off the fan, no need of blowing around cold air. In the summer months though, you can push in any of the white buttons on the three boxes to have cool air vented up into the house. This is the manual/automatic control.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

chazmonro

Thanks for the info guys. Nice Pic's SwampDonkey! I don't have oil, but I'd probably use gas as a suplimental fuel.

Are the outdoor furnaces that much less work? I'd love to only have to stock the fire twice a day. With an outdoor furnace would it be easier to regulate the heat? And I could probably run heat to the garage also right? I might reconsider the outdoor furnace... I'm sure my insurance would rather have the furnace outside too... the wood one anyway. I was thinking that an indoor furnace would be nicer because I wouldn't have to go outside, but I figure I gotta let the dog out twice a day right? Might as well take those opportunities to stock the fire box.

Really guys, thanks again for all the help. I really don't know much about wood burning heat, but I figure its got to be better than paying an arm and a leg for gas.

Chuck

woodmills1

In my first and second wood heated house I used an Ashley barrel stove.  Good heater and if filled right would go all night.  In the previous house I owned I had a wood powered indoor hot air heater I bought an air handler for it and then just plumbed the warm air into my main furnace duct using a shut off flap to keep the hot air from travelling back toward the oil furnace and turning on its fan.  mine shut off was manual though I think you can get one that has a motor so will close when wood is on and open when oil is needed.  this set up would heat the house so well we opened the windows in winter. I had a walk out basement door and could store at leat a cord in the house.  I could fit the wheel barrow throu the door.  Would have been a pain with out that door.

Now I just installed my outdoor furnace and though just the first fire today I think that is the solution to think about.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

wiam

chazmonro,  I do not think that you will find an outdoor that is not a boiler.  I had a hot air system in the basement.  That was my only source of heat.  When I installed my Central Boiler I built a plywood box where the indoor furnace was.  In this there is a 220,000 water to air heat exchanger a filter set up and the fan off the indoor furnace.  This has worked well for 6 years.  I think it is easier to regulate heat in the house.  There is a thermostat on the water in the boiler to keep water an 180 degrees.  The thermostat on the wall turns on the blower and a circulator to the heat exchanger.  Mine runs year round to heat domestic and waterbeds. :) :)

Will

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