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New Guy with my Sawmill Build

Started by Jimmysmill13, December 16, 2015, 06:08:33 PM

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Magicman

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
I will be adding a spring loaded idler pulley and I haven't come up with a design yet but I think I am also going to have the motor be able to slide for belt adjustments. 
Rather than an idler pulley and sliding motor I would think toward a motor hinge/pivot/turnbuckle arrangement such as WM uses.  This would take care of your drive belt tension as well as your "clutch".
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jimmysmill13

Quote from: Magicman on December 17, 2015, 01:16:53 PM
Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
I will be adding a spring loaded idler pulley and I haven't come up with a design yet but I think I am also going to have the motor be able to slide for belt adjustments. 
Rather than an idler pulley and sliding motor I would think toward a motor hinge/pivot/turnbuckle arrangement such as WM uses.  This would take care of your drive belt tension as well as your "clutch".


I like that idea to, it may keep things looking clean and simple on this mill.

Den-Den

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 01:05:02 PM

Thank you all for the much appreciated input on the mill so far. I will add more photos of the progress but I may not get much more done till after the holidays.

I do have question on the blade tensioning. How do I know how much tension is right for the blade and is there and easy way to determine this or do in need to add some sort of tension gauge for the blade?

A tension gauge is a nice feature, not sure it is necessary but you do need a way to set the tension so that it is repeatable between blade changes.  Some mills are set up so that a torque wrench is used to turn a screw that tensions the blade, I have heard that works fine once you figure how much works for your set-up.
From what I can tell, more tension is better than less as far as cutting is concerned but it also causes more wear and tear on shafts, bearings etc.  Excess tension will also cause tracking problems if the frame or shafts deflect enough to affect alignment.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Kbeitz

I think your going to need track rollers. The belt idlers wont take the weight very well...
They are not that expensive on E-nay.

4" Temper Steel Gate V Groove Wheel Slide Roll Sliding Driveway Gate V Track



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
The blade guides do stay in alignment. I made the guides adjustable in every direction if for some reason they become out of alignment.
What I was getting at is as you slide the guide close to or far from your log, it needs to remain the exact same height from the log bunks so you cut true/square cants.  Mine is off by about 1/8" at the extremes.
Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
I plan on using some vacuum cleaner hose to help keep the dust out of the treads.
Nice idea - does it expand/contract in length?
Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
I will be operating the mill from the idler pulley side and pushing forward. The engine shaft would be facing me and the motors shaft rotation is counter clockwise so the blade will be moving to the right as the teeth direction indicate. I may not fully understand you last question on this so let me know if that makes any sense at all.
I was just commenting on the direction your teeth face - no real question other than if you had to reverse the blade by turning inside out.

What is the T handle used for on the drive side?  It looks like it is used to tension the blade but will also affect the engine belt tension.  I think it should only serve one purpose.  You could use it to tension the engine belt and use another on the idle side for blade tension.  When you are cutting (from the idle side), you will want to be able to adjust the blade tension without walking around to the other side.  In my experience, I tighten my blade to the point where it stops fluttering too much.  And sometime a little more as I watch it cut.

For track wheels, I picked up 3.5" cheap cast iron snatch blocks.  Got 10 for $35.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Jimmysmill13

Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 17, 2015, 04:56:52 PM
Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
The blade guides do stay in alignment. I made the guides adjustable in every direction if for some reason they become out of alignment.
What I was getting at is as you slide the guide close to or far from your log, it needs to remain the exact same height from the log bunks so you cut true/square cants.  Mine is off by about 1/8" at the extremes.

I see what your getting at now. I know there are close but I have to go out and check the accuracy of this.

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
I plan on using some vacuum cleaner hose to help keep the dust out of the treads.
Nice idea - does it expand/contract in length?

Yes it will expand and contract the down side is I just threw away an old vacuum that had what i am planning on using.
I will have to find some more.

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
I will be operating the mill from the idler pulley side and pushing forward. The engine shaft would be facing me and the motors shaft rotation is counter clockwise so the blade will be moving to the right as the teeth direction indicate. I may not fully understand you last question on this so let me know if that makes any sense at all.
I was just commenting on the direction you teeth face - no real question other than if you had to reverse the blade by turning inside out.

I didn't turn the blade inside out that I know of, unless I did it unknowingly.

What is the T handle used for on the drive side?  It looks like it is used to tension the blade but will also affect the engine belt tension.  I think it should only serve one purpose.  You could use it to tension the engine belt and use another on the idle side for blade tension.  When you are cutting (from the idle side), you will want to be able to adjust the blade tension without walking around to the other side.  In my experience, I tighten my blade to the point where it stops fluttering too much.  And sometime a little more as I watch it cut.

The T handle is only for setting the tension on the blade. I haven't figured out exactly what I am doing about the belt tension yet. I may have to do as you are advising and switch it to the idle side. My concern on the idle side is this is also how I set my toe. Do you think this will cause and issue with the belt and pulleys?

For track wheels, I picked up 3.5" cheap cast iron snatch blocks.  Got 10 for $35.

I like the snatch blocks, this would allow me to keep the current rail I am running.

Ljohnsaw

I made toe adjustments for both side - it is/was necessary for my machine (using spare tires).

How wide is your rail?  My pulleys are about 1/2" wide groove, made for 3/8" cable.  My track is 1/4" angle iron, upright.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

breazyears

Welcome to the site.
Using 1" shaft with the go-cart hubs will not last long. I say this from experience. I had 1" shaft on one side of my mill and it bent, then broke quite fast.
I ended up with 1"3/8 shaft and it has held up fine.
I like your mill. Listen to the advise people on this site provide, it helped me greatly.
Nice job... Keep us updated.

redprospector

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: redprospector on December 17, 2015, 12:03:38 AM
Welcome to the forum Jimmysmill13!
I won't repeat what's been said. What I will say is, nice job. I like the way that you have your pillow blocks spread out. I got mine too close together, and have to replace shafts way more often than I'd like. I would recommend putting some split locking collars on the shafts to keep them from being able to move.
The only other concern I have would be for the carriage wheels. It looks to me like you used idler pulleys. I don't think they will hold up long. But I've been wrong before.  ;)

Thanks!

I did put some collars with set screws on do think this should be a split lock instead?

I am not sure if the idler pulleys will hold up either. I did make them easy to switch out if one goes bad. It just a pin and collar holding them in place. It was away cheaper option then rail wheels.
Yes, the collars with set screws only have the screws, and the small section of the shaft just opposite holding. Where the split collars are actually gripping/squeezing all the way around the shaft. They will hold way better.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on December 17, 2015, 05:48:56 PM
The T handle is only for setting the tension on the blade. I haven't figured out exactly what I am doing about the belt tension yet. I may have to do as you are advising and switch it to the idle side. My concern on the idle side is this is also how I set my toe. Do you think this will cause and issue with the belt and pulleys?

Looking at the pictures, your motor mount is attached to the main frame, right?  So, as you tension your blade, you are also moving the shaft farther from the motor mount, right?  That is why I was saying it is doing both.  For engaging the saw, you have three options.  You can have a centripetal clutch, an electric clutch (I have that now, part of the lawn tractor engine) or a lever activated belt tension system (had that in my first iteration).  With how you have your blade tension potentially affecting your drive belt tension, I think the lever tension system would be your best option at this point.  Then your idle side can remain as it is now.  But I think you need to figure out a way to adjust toe (easily) on the drive side as well.  You certainly can elongate the holes on one of your pillow block mount plates, but that is not an easy field adjustment.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

21incher

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Great job on the mill. My little mill uses 1 1/2" shafts with the 16" wheels centered between them and no overhang. You may need to go with much larger shafts  to keep the blade tension from flexing the shafts. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Jimmysmill13

Here is a update on the saw mill I have been building. It has been a while since my last post but here is what I have done. I have added a  13HP engine, Centrifugal Clutch, and Idler pulley.  I have also modified a few things taken from all your recommendations. Things like blade direction and the drive wheel is now on the left wheel. Today I was able to fire it up and run a couple test runs on the mill. I must say that I am more then pleased. I was surprised how well it cut. The cut was straight and the surface was very smooth. The thickness from one side to the other was only off about a 1/32" to 1/16".

The next step is to add:

Battery for engine
Tank for lubricant
Blade Guard
Guard for Acme Thread. 
Height Gauge
 

Jimmysmill13


Ox

Another success story - well done!
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

papow22

Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on April 07, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Here is a update on the saw mill I have been building. It has been a while since my last post but here is what I have done. I have added a  13HP engine, Centrifugal Clutch, and Idler pulley.  I have also modified a few things taken from all your recommendations. Things like blade direction and the drive wheel is now on the left wheel. Today I was able to fire it up and run a couple test runs on the mill. I must say that I am more then pleased. I was surprised how well it cut. The cut was straight and the surface was very smooth. The thickness from one side to the other was only off about a 1/32" to 1/16".

The next step is to add:

Battery for engine
Tank for lubricant
Blade Guard
Guard for Acme Thread. 
Height Gauge
  <br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/831C1DB5-2C3E-41EB-90B4-ACA5AF3430F4_zpsqubvrywy.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/831C1DB5-2C3E-41EB-90B4-ACA5AF3430F4_zpsqubvrywy.jpg[/img]http://[/URL]
<br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/874477C3-6A98-4F4E-B8B2-22F9AC39D06F_zpsug0vepzq.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/874477C3-6A98-4F4E-B8B2-22F9AC39D06F_zpsug0vepzq.jpg[/img][/URL]
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Well done and sure looks nice.Now I'm asking what did it cost American $ wise Cause it would cost me about 40k Canadian to build one like that,I have 2 mills one is a Norwood's and its older and also a Trim Saw.Sure its rusty and needs work Here in Canada people think $20.00 would buy it  :) .Paid 6k but never got it work,to busy working else where,So I asking 2,500.00 but people figure its way out of ball park.Anything less well the hot wrench can turn it scrap for me or turn into a trailer for the logs & lumber. ::)But just wondering what it cost you for yours up this stage,Material & wages of building it. ;) 
Lives to do sawdust,run a trapline,hunt big game,live life to it's most.Got 4 mills a circle mill,(2 band sawmills) Norwood's 2000, Trim Saw,Beam Machine (chainsaw mill).

Ljohnsaw

Congratulations on making some cuts!  I really like your belt tensioner.  I need to hit a Pick-N-Pull to get me one of them.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Jimmysmill13

Quote from: papow22 on April 07, 2016, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: Jimmysmill13 on April 07, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
Here is a update on the saw mill I have been building. It has been a while since my last post but here is what I have done. I have added a  13HP engine, Centrifugal Clutch, and Idler pulley.  I have also modified a few things taken from all your recommendations. Things like blade direction and the drive wheel is now on the left wheel. Today I was able to fire it up and run a couple test runs on the mill. I must say that I am more then pleased. I was surprised how well it cut. The cut was straight and the surface was very smooth. The thickness from one side to the other was only off about a 1/32" to 1/16".

The next step is to add:

Battery for engine
Tank for lubricant
Blade Guard
Guard for Acme Thread. 
Height Gauge

Well done and sure looks nice.Now I'm asking what did it cost American $ wise Cause it would cost me about 40k Canadian to build one like that,I have 2 mills one is a Norwood's and its older and also a Trim Saw.Sure its rusty and needs work Here in Canada people think $20.00 would buy it  :) .Paid 6k but never got it work,to busy working else where,So I asking 2,500.00 but people figure its way out of ball park.Anything less well the hot wrench can turn it scrap for me or turn into a trailer for the logs & lumber. ::)But just wondering what it cost you for yours up this stage,Material & wages of building it. ;)

I have approximately 1000 to 1200 hundred in materials but some of the materials I have had laying around from other projects. The labor is countless hours of trial and error. This project has never been about the cost but more about the challenge that I could built it and it be functional. This is just a hobby for me, I wanted the mill so I could cut rough cut lumber for other projects that I will be working on. Its been fun making the mill to this point. 

Jimmysmill13

Quote from: ljohnsaw on April 07, 2016, 11:36:25 PM
Congratulations on making some cuts!  I really like your belt tensioner.  I need to hit a Pick-N-Pull to get me one of them.

Thnaks!

Kbeitz

Thats kinda neat... It cost mw $1280.00 to build my mill...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Jimmysmill13


Magicman

That is a board making machine.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

plowboyswr

Just an ole farm boy takin one day at a time.
Steve

Ox

Success!  Looks nice and smooth and seems like the "sing" sounds right, too.  Cool! 
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Jimmysmill13


SAWMILL BUILD UPDATE

Over the last 4 months I have made several changes and update to my mill. The changes I have done are as followed.

-- New Steel Tack wheels (Harbor Freight 2 Ton Push Beam Trolley for the wheels)
-- Lubricant Tank / line
-- Mill is now portable (Used old camper frame 2200lbs axle)
-- Blade Guard Built
-- Wireless Winch added to control lift (Harbor Freight Badland 2500 lb. ATV/Utility Electric Winch with Wireless Remote             Control)
-- Replaced tires with Sheaves (18.75" OD H-Bushing Single Groove Pulleys with MVP Industrial B57/5L600 V-Force Premium     V-Belt, 5/8" Top Width X 60" Outside Circumference)
-- 4 trailer Jacks (3500 lb. Capacity Drop Leg Heavy Duty Trailer Jack)
-- Built new log stops / Log Dogs
-- Built tie downs / supports for transporting
-- Wheel Fenders
-- Paint


New Steel Wheels are from a Harbor Freight beam trolley.


7 Gallon fresh water tank (RELIANCE AQUA TAINER Tank from Walmart)
















These secure the mill to the frame.

This is a removable support for the mill head when transporting.



Ljohnsaw

I like your color scheme - are you into Harley's? ;)

I REALLY like your transport support bar for the head.  That will save you some grief.  On your log dogs, I noticed your T-bolts down on the bottom.  You probably already found out you won't be needing those.  Once there is pressure on the top log screw, they seem to lock in place on the slider.

Your log bunks look pretty low.  What is the thickness of your last cut you can make?  Might need to add something on top of the bunks.  Have you thought about adding linkage to your log dogs so they all raise and lower together?  Not sure if that would be good or bad.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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