What do you think?

[Southside]

So today while delivering a load of logs to a mill I do regular business with I was speaking with the log scaler for a minute when I noticed a very young boy wandering around the log yard wearing ear muffs.  The scaler then made a comment that he is not a baby sitter and explained it was the owners 10 year old grandson.  Turns out the father (involved in the mill but I don't exactly know how) had send the son over to the scaler to "help" by running the hand held metal detector and CHAINSAW to cut metal out of cants that gets missed and is found by the mill saw.  The scaler under direction of the owner then proceeds to show the lad what cants to work on and hands him about a 70cc Stihl saw with a 20" or so bar on it.  This kid was wearing shorts, sneakers, a cut off t shirt, and his ear muffs.  Another truck pulled up behind me and I was empty and blocking the loader so I had to move on.  I did not actually see the kid run the saw, but know he was about to.  I won't run a saw without chaps, kevlar gloves and boots. 

I told my wife about it and she gave me her opinion on the correct thing to do but wanted to ask other guys who could find themselves in the same situation.  Guess I should add this mill is about the worst when it comes to employees wearing PPE, obvious safety issues, etc.  I guess it's not my business, but do I have a responsibility here?     

[BargeMonkey]

Thats a rough one. My son -9yr old rides along sometimes in the machine if its got a cab, turns wrenches safely or may hang around while im doing something, but hand him a saw ? HA. @ 10yr old I dont see how the kid would have the a$$ to start that saw, but his parents are begging for trouble, a sawmill isnt a place for a kid.
Youve asked a good question, but its that grey area, I dont know what I would do if I saw that.

[CCC4]

I would bet you witnessed worst case scenario...I'm guessing the scaler was pissy and had zero cares what happened to him, so he stuck a saw in his hands, IDK. No sawmill owner would let anything like that happen I would think...it only takes one person to report seeing something like that.

If it was me, I'd just step over it. Now if you go back and he's bucking logs...then there is a big problem! !

[ST Ranch]

SL - Very difficult situation to be in.- what is more important, a good [or possibly the loss of] working relationship with your mill or the safety of a child?

I am quite sure lots of farmers and independent operators have had their children involved in their operations, but usually under good supervision and most likely a bit of exposure/experience from watching and learning.

I ran a chainsaw at a young age, probably 11 or 12 yrs old, [and in those days w/out chaps - even Dad did not have chaps - yes stupid looking back at it now], but only with Dad near by and only bucking firewood [an old mac with about 50 cc] and only for a short time.

That said, this is a different matter, both in terms of your risk as well as other truckers/workers working at this site and the safety of the young boy.  Also what I find it especially scary, is the lack of saw safety gear [chaps, etc] as well as the size of the saw and the skillset/strength to run a power-saw.

So what to do - one possibility is to approach the child's parent and express your concern for the child's safety, as well as the risk to other mill employees and truck drivers doing deliveries.   Yes it may cause some ruffled feathers, but you might be saving some kid from a life of misery or death. 

Second option is to report it to health and welfare or compensation - I know no one wants to be a snitch, but when a child's safety is at risk, ??? better to p__ss off someone than have to live with not doing something.

I am sure if it were a fellow employee or an adult doing something risky that they were not aware of, you would probably approach them and try to explain the risk, but unfortunately I do not think a child would understand what you were trying to do.

So  ????    I look forward to hearing other ideas on this topic.

Tom

[timberlinetree]

You could send an anonymous letter to the mill. Could save a life and a lot of heartbreak. Thanks for caring!

[thecfarm]

I wonder too how much the grandson is around a saw. I have a grandson that would like to run a saw. But he's not around one enough,me,to really understand and realize the danger of one. But I do tell him what I am doing and wear the proper PPE. If I had that job I would tell the boss,NO,he is NOT running a saw on my shift. But maybe I would have no choice either.  :

[Decked]

Common sense should tell them if an accident occurs, owner or not, somebody's gonna be in a world of chit...

[goose63]

Report it a boy that young and a saw that big is gonn get him hurt or dead

[cutter88]

I would report it and just request that your name stay annonimus

[thenorthman]

what we don't know is whether the kid wants to be there, or was he told to be there.

If he wants to be there helping calling cps is just going to ruin a good thing, granted he probably shouldn't be running a saw that big and maybe should at least be wearing boots and long pants...

That being said it is an industrial work place and not bucking fyrewood at home, so if you where to call some one please call L+I and not CPS.  Fines are going to give a better lesson then legalized kidnapping.

Now I started running a saw around 6, by the time I was 10-11 I could run an 044 most of a day, granted I was a bit larger than most kids, Starting only became an issue if the stupid thing didn't want to start.  Its possible the kid is really good with a saw, we don't know that, and its also possible he's as obsessed as I was/am with logging, and keeping him in the scaling yard is the nearest thing to safety his parents could do.


Whatever happens, CPS is not the answer, been down that road, its a long hard fight with pencil pushing morons that don't give a rats tail hair what happens to the kid, as long as their report looks good at the end of the year... (I'm a little bitter... and I don't have kids)

[clww]

That's a tough situation to witness for sure. Not a good idea for the mill owner, or for that youngster. There's no way their insurance policy would cover a child, minimal safety gear, working in an industrial area, plus operating a chainsaw. That's all bad.

[OH logger]

the dad is prolly doin what he thinks is the right thing IN HIS SITUATION. bottom line its his kid not yours but thanks for caring. we learned at a young age how to work and how to keep from getting hurt even if it wasn't apparent to outsiders. maybe he could be hired for buckin logs ;). by 15 or so he could be one hell of a faller. ;D

[Southside]

I do appreciate the input here.  I grew up farming and as a kid remember my dad running a saw without even a chain brake and of course no chaps, helmet or anything.  We were around unguarded PTO's, drive chains, you name it, managed to live through it all even eating some of what I am sure was lead paint, so I get it.

I guess for me what really stuck out is that was on our farm where there were no other trucks, loaders, employees coming and going.  We don't have any kids of our own and frankly I am horrible when dealing with them from the complete lack of experience so it's hard to look at this from a completely educated standpoint.  On the one hand I am not one to stick my nose in others business as I really have a thing about people doing that to me, but on the other hand I have no desire to see something catastrophic happen that is preventable.   

[treeslayer2003]

not saying i agree with it, but at an amish mill it would be normal............just sayin, it sounds bad but different strokes for different folks.

[Autocar]

Just my two cents but a ten year old with all the safety gear dosen't really understand the power of a kick back and just two young to be put in that spot.

[kensfarm]

The other day I was driving home through a local neighborhood and saw a woman on a riding lawnmower w/ a young child in her lap.  I wanted to pull over and say.. don't you know how many children have been killed that way!  Hey.. my dad buried the 5 of us in a trailor of dirt back in the day.  My dad was a smoker.. I started a forest fire at the age of 5..  who's fault was that.. I can tell you who got the whipping.   >:(  Maybe we should just call the police.. and then we've done our part.. unless immediate action is required.  Hope the kid  doesn't get hurt. 

[timberlinetree]

Usually it's the unexpected that causes problems. I got real lucky once. Kids love to ride on the tractor. One day I was going to take the youngest girl(she has a problem with bees and would run in front of a mack truck to get away from one) to brush hog a field with the open cab tractor.well she couldn't go for some reason thank god! Hit a huge nest of bees got stung 6 times and could only think how ugly it could have gotten!

[coxy]

this is a hard one but my 5cents is the boys dad should be the one showing him how to do what ever not to leave it up to the mill help  my girl has been in the woods with me off and on from the age of 8 she is 18 now and still have a hard time letting her do things on her own     MUST BE I CARE TO MUCH FOR HER AND HER SAFETY

[mesquite buckeye]

I also grew up around dangerous farm equipment. Started driving tractors by 7 and trucks by 8. Basicly as soon as I could reach the pedals and see over the dash.

Those situations are dangerous for anybody, adults included. Before looking at the age, I would take note of how situationally aware the child is and whether he/she understands the dangers involved.

My dad spent a lot of time explaining to me the horrible stories of men getting an arm or leg ripped off or killed by various types of equipment. He would make me aware of the specific dangers of each piece of equipment I was around.

I think it worked. Worst things that happened were falling on a baling hook and getting a thumb smashed hooking up a wagon. The things I saw and did put me way ahead of the other kids my age in life experience. ;D

I have no regrets about those times and neither did my dad. ;D 8) 8) 8)

[BargeMonkey]

 Uhm, heres the problem with small children and machinery. 6-7 yrs ago a excavation contractor out in otsego / delaware county brought the dozer to the house for the weekend. The kids where always riding along, something alot of us have done or done with our kids. The guys 1 young son must have thought he got the signal to go get on. Backed over him with a hightrack D5. As a father I couldnt live with myself. If we had an accident involving a minor child at our mill, the crap would hit the fan.

[mesquite buckeye]

That is also true. I can't imagine anything worse that killing my own or anybody else's child for that matter.

[Maine logger88]

(she has a problem with bees and would run in front of a mack truck to get away from one)

Haha I am the same way I would rather deal with widow makers barber chairs and shear cliffs than find a bees nest lol

[coxy]

(she has a problem with bees and would run in front of a mack truck to get away from one)

Haha I am the same way I would rather deal with widow makers barber chairs and shear cliffs than find a bees nest lol

at least im not alone in the bee thing if I get stung in the back of the head it will swell my eyes shut its not a pretty thing  ;D

[Southside]

If you don't have one get yourself an epi pen. I keep mine in the skidder all the time.