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Cutting Hard Wood

Started by crtreedude, April 09, 2008, 07:00:12 AM

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jim king

CRtreedude:  This is the only solution I have found.  I have a baker resaw and it will not touch what my homemade wooden saw cuts.  It is made out of scrap Bloodwood, Purpleheart and Santos Mahogany.


TexasTimbers

Fred,

That stuff will last alot longer than 30 years. Try the monkey blades. I am getting better esults in all woods with them uncluding Osage. I doubt you will find your species on the Janka scale, but to give you some refernces Osage is 2040, Goncalo Alves is 2160, Persimmon 2300, and Ipe is 3680.

I know the munks handle Osage just fine. I don't know about Ipe ???

Depending on where you read, Lignum Vitae or Snakewood hold the distinction of being the worlds hardest.

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

jim king

Just to let you know the Janka scale does not have much to do if anything with the difficulty of cutting wood.  It is a mechanical propety test, nothing else.  Degree of sand in the wood, resin type content are not part of the Janka test, it is for hardness only.

Anyone over fifty will understand.

Fla._Deadheader


Bands simply won't cut the Tropical HARD woods. Even tipped bands at the BIG mills don't want to cut Tropical HARD woods.  ::) ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

TexasTimbers

That might be my problem I am not quite 50. But I think it must have some value as an indicator of how difficult it may be to cut.

The tsest drives a ball bearing or something into the wood to a given depth and the psi that it takes - I think - is what the number is.

Mechanical yes, but it does give some indication of how hard the wood is. I can't imagine woods with higher numbers being easier to cut. Maybe it's all coincedence.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Dan_Shade

i cut three persimmon logs a while back, at least that's what they told me they were.  it was heavy, but I had not trouble cutting it at all. 

difficulty in cutting may be more related to inconsistancies from early/late wood, I don't know.

locust is hard, and pecan is hard, i haven't cut much stuff worse than those two.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Fla._Deadheader


Locust and Pecan are not hard, compared to Tamarindo, Corteza, Ipe, and many more I'm not familiar with.

  As an example, My Peterson gets ½ production or less per hour, cutting Tamarindo, Corteza, than my Bandmill, cutting Live Oak or Hickory. Don't remember cutting Pecan wood.

  Peterson is 20 HP, Band is 24 HP, both Hondas.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Dan_Shade

I hope you guys are having fun with all of that :-D

part of me thinks that if a band guru were to play with some of that stuff, they may come up with a tooth spacing/gullet profile that would work well for your application.  But if it's just too hard and rounding the teeth over, then that's another problem.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Dave Shepard

From an engineering standpoint, the band just doesn't have enough moment to fight the forces being applied, wheres a swing blade has much more "beef" behind it.

I cut up a whack of locust two weeks ago, and did not find it cut much worse than cherry, but I do have 51 HP and .055 blades.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

crtreedude

So far, I think the decision is get Harold to do it.  :D Using the right tool for the right job makes sense. Our forestry engineer is going to apply for the permits to cut the logs next week.

Yes, even for salvaged logs you have to have permits.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

ladylake

Try that 4 degree hook before you give up. I was cutting some 15 year old white oak with no bark on it (no you cant drive a nail in it) the other day. My bands I sharpened with 4 degrees and qiute a bit of set did good. Brand new 10 degree wouldn't cut straight at all.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Larry

If a 4 degree band won't cut it call Lennox and ask for one of there engineers.  I bet they can supply a band that will slice it up.  I have a Lennox band for the shop band saw that has variable pitch and a negative hook angle...its quite common for shop bandsaws.  It will re-saw dry ebony like cutting through hot butter.  Do-All also makes some bands that might work.  I got a bunch at a fire sale couple of months ago...there for metal but they sure re-saw dry white oak nice.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

crtreedude

Sounds interesting. We have some very hard wood here, it just might be worth the effort to try.

I will probably do this one with Harold and the swingblade. One challenge being here is how fast I can get something into the country. The answer is, not fast.  ::)
So, how did I end up here anyway?

crtreedude

To continue the story of the hard wood. We have a solution (and FINALLY got permits from MINAE!). We use an 090AV to cut the logs into cants that are 6 inches or so wide, then use bi-metal blades with the Baker 18M to slice 1 x 6 planks. I am told by the sawyer this is working great! Very little waste, very fast (about 600 BF a day with the saw)

We actually managed to cut 20" wide boards as a test, which is remarkable given how hard the wood is. This is corteza that has been in a bridge for about 20 years.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

Tom

I'm a believer in bands.  You find the right combination and you can cut almost anything.

crtreedude

Seems to be the truth Tom. After all, I can cut anything on a bandsaw (in the shop) with the right blade - why not wood?

So, how did I end up here anyway?

backwoods sawyer

(I can't imagine woods with higher numbers being easier to cut. Maybe it's all coincedence.)

Doug fir has a muck lower number then black oak, Yet with the same saw the oak cuts easier then the Doug fir. It has to do with the fibrous nature of the wood and the density changes that occur within the Doug fir.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Dave Shepard

I have an old Wood-Mizerr Way that has a guy cutting stone on a WM. Miami Oolite, was reported as a very porous stone. He was using a diamond coated band, I believe.

It's funny how many different factors there are that can influence how the mill saws. For instance, most of what I learned on the 24 HP WM doesn't always carry over to the 51 HP mill I run now. I've sawn 10's of thousands of feet of pine with a 10° band on the 24 HP mill, but the 51 HP doesn't seem to like them at all for pine, I have to use a 4°. I'm waiting for them to come out with a band that stops reaction wood, for a truely enjoyable ash cutting experience. :D (Just kidding)


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

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