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what kind of trees?

Started by WoodBurninLou, April 25, 2019, 11:05:48 AM

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WoodBurninLou

 

 

 Hi,  We have multiple trees like this on the property and I cannot find pictures of anything like them.  We always called them ironwood, but from what I see on here and on tree sites, they don't look like either hornbeam species.  Most of the places they exist, there are multiple trees in one spot.  They are extremely dense and heavy and don't seem to get much bigger than the ones pictured here.  They often die and stay standing for years, maintaining their density.  Do I need to provide pictures of anything else?  They are not yet putting out leaves.  I live in central NY.
Thanks, WBLou

wisconsitom

What part of the world is this?  Superficially, resemble northern red oak.  But could also be cottonwood.  Could also be many other species.  Can you provide views of buds?  Twigs?

tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

WoodBurninLou

Quote from: wisconsitom on April 25, 2019, 11:35:48 AM
What part of the world is this?  Superficially, resemble northern red oak.  But could also be cottonwood.  Could also be many other species.  Can you provide views of buds?  Twigs?

tom
Hi Tom, Central NY.  Definitely not red oak, we have them all around.  These are much denser than the red oak.  I'll get some more pics.  Thanks...

KEC

You don't happen to have any that you cut to take photos of the cut ends, do you? I'm in CNY also, if you're close by I would take a look. I'm leaning to Red Oak.

Don P


bitternut

I think they might be serviceberry trees. They should have small white blossoms and are the first things to blossom in the spring followed by small purple/reddish edible fruit in June. Hence the common name of juneberry. Also they go by the name of shadbush. 

jimparamedic

Just a guess but looks like sumac to me.


SwampDonkey

Serviceberry, they will flower real early. The fruit looks like a blueberry when ripe, but they don't grow in clusters.







"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WoodBurninLou

 

 

Here is the cut end.  I already topped the branches, so no tops.  Tried pics of the branches of  standing trees, they are way too far away to be useful.  The branches probably have double the amount of twigs as the red oaks right next to them (probably get the same amount of sun).  While the bark looks very similar to the red oak of the same diameter, this tree is much smoother.  Thanks all for opinions.  When it leafs out, I will get some pics of those also.

wisconsitom

If serviceberry-I agree the bark does resemble to some extent-then it is by far, the largest serviceberry I've ever seen.  I have doubts.  Tree is too large.

tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

WoodBurninLou

Quote from: wisconsitom on April 26, 2019, 12:44:48 PM
If serviceberry-I agree the bark does resemble to some extent-then it is by far, the largest serviceberry I've ever seen.  I have doubts.  Tree is too large.

tom
I agree on the bark, very similar to pics here and other I found.  I don't recall ever seeing berries, but maybe I just never noticed them before.  They are quite tall, and have branches only near the top.  Perplexing.  Leaves can't pop out soon enough!

SwampDonkey

The leaves should have a fine toothed margin, oval and usually reddish when emerging. :)

I've seen some pretty big ones. 30 feet and 12" diameters are big I think. I've seen them 8". But some 60 feet tall and 2 feet across have been found. They sort of look striped before they  get quite big. Not as obvious as striped maple (striped maple is very soft wood and light). You find some nice ones on old apple orchard ground that is being overgrown. Several species. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

KEC

For sure not Oak. I''ve seen Serviceberry many times and that works for the look of the stem, but I've never seen a cut end before. They should blossum soon.

bluthum

That does resemble service berry. In my world there are 2 species, one is only a shrub and the other [Amelanchier arborea] makes a small tree. Usually they are crooked but once in a while one will be big enough for a short log. The wood is fairly plain, hard and dense.  The only lumber of it I ever had was consumed by powder post beetles before I used it. I'd guess it would be good fire wood. 

wisconsitom

If serviceberry-and you guys are educating me that there are in fact bigger ones out there-this plant should now have clearly-visible flower buds at this time.

tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

WoodBurninLou

Not blossoming yet.  I am up on a hill and a few miles away in the valley, trees are blossoming, but not up here.  I'm in Otsego County NY.  

These grow pretty tall, I have one on the ground I tipped in Feb., I guesstimate 45 feet.  

WoodBurninLou

Took a tape measure, 41.5', 18" stump and maybe 4' of branches cut off the top.  So about 47'.  And the cut end is about 7", and my first attempt at counting rings shows about 55?  (never counted rings before.)  Is that how old it might be, 55?

The 2nd one I have on the ground is around 52' and diameter is smaller, maybe 6".

wisconsitom

Allegheny serviceberry here in cold, wet Wisconsin has well-developed buds visible at this time.  I doubt you're looking at downy or other serviceberry there if no big, long flower buds present.

tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

SwampDonkey

If those have been cut for some time, no good looking for buds about the flower on them. :D

None of them are flowering here yet, too cold.

Alders, aspen and soft maples are though. Not sure if beaked hazel is yet, but must be close. Until I see purple trillium come up, no soft fruit trees will be flowering.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WoodBurninLou

Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 30, 2019, 05:30:17 PM
If those have been cut for some time, no good looking for buds about the flower on them. :D

None of them are flowering here yet, too cold.

Alders, aspen and soft maples are though. Not sure if beaked hazel is yet, but must be close. Until I see purple trillium come up, no soft fruit trees will be flowering.
Ya, kinda tough for buds to pop out on the ones on the ground, when I topped all of the branches!
We do have some trees starting to show buds and blossoms, but not these.  You mention soft fruit trees.  Just to be clear, these trees are the hardest, densest trees I have ever cut.  Is the serviceberry hard or soft?  And based on the cut piece, it looks like it could be at least 50 years old @ 7 inches?

wisconsitom

In my imagination, I thought perhaps there were similar trees in that same area for you to look at.  In fact, you spoke of branches in your earlier posts.

Another Amelanchier species is in bud-swell stage here in East-Central WI-apple serviceberry.  But up at my farm-60 miles north-no such sightings.  Not much up around there anyway, I don't think.

I might just not be familiar with Amelanchier arborea.  They might be around here...and of similar size....but just something I've missed.

tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

SwampDonkey

Lou, I was referring to the fruit, not the wood.  The wood is real hard and slow growing. Many grow in a lot of shade cover, and then manage to find a hole in the canopy to flower when the opportunity arrives.

Just noticing the beaked hazel today. Mostly overlooked, the female flowers are red and very simple. And very small. :)



Cold here, water was froze in the ditch until noon at work. They've been predicting 50's and never happened yet this week. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WoodBurninLou

Quote from: SwampDonkey on May 01, 2019, 05:04:07 PM
The wood is real hard and slow growing. 
Seems like these two points are a match.  Can't wait for some growth to start poppin' out.

bitternut

The serviceberry trees in my woods are in full bloom now and can be seen easily when viewing the hill sides. My woods is located in the south west corner of Allegany County NY. Pretty hard to miss them.



 

 

WoodBurninLou

Quote from: bitternut on May 04, 2019, 01:47:15 AM
The serviceberry trees in my woods are in full bloom now and can be seen easily when viewing the hill sides. My woods is located in the south west corner of Allegany County NY. Pretty hard to miss them.
Great, thanks.  The trees in question here are just pushing some leaves through, I can see a bit of red popping out.  Hopefully some close-up pics within a week.  I'm in Otsego County near Oneonta.

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