How bad did I get ripped

[chainsaw_louie]

I needed a new chain for my 24" bar / 84 cutters and didnt want to wait and buy from the Madsens or Bailey's so I went to my local mower/saw/etc shop.  They had Stihl brand chain - 3/8" full comp, chisel, round gullet for a whopping total $39 incl tax.  I bought it but I sure wasnt happy about it.  I have heard that Stilh is the most expensive chain but that is a lot expecially when Madsens is selling 2 for 1 and Baileys is about $14 plus s/h of course.

Ouch!

Tim

[sawguy21]

That is about right... in loonies. :D I have no idea how the mail order houses can flog the stuff so cheap.

[Al_Smith]

That is about par for the course,I would say.A couple of things to remember.The dealer is pretty much bound to the price they sell stuff for as dictated by Stihl.It is Stihl chain,good stuff,no doubt.I question if it is that good although I have a few loops myself.

The price at Baileys ,for Oregon chain ,would be perhaps half that amount ,perhaps cheaper,on sale as is now,for an 84 driver loop,at $14.95 as per the catalog setting in front of me as I type.

[sawguy21]

Stihl does not tell us what to sell it for but they sure dictate our cost.

[beenthere]

Over the internet, there isn't the expense of having a chain on hand like there is at your local shop. That shop has light bills, heat bills, taxes, etc. etc and someone there while the store is open.

Now, there must be a good story behind why you needed to have that chain sudden like.  : ???

[sawmilllawyer]

 :P I just checked my receipt because I bought a 25" loop with 84 drivers. .063 for $26.73 plus tax, total about $30.00. But that is down here where things are cheaper.

[chainsaw_louie]

Thanks,  in the end, it was my decision to get it now rather than wait for it to travel across the country on the UPS truck....so I paid for my impatience.  I dont mind paying a premium for the stocking/lights/heat etc but 2x seems excessive and I would like to patronize these local guys but they sure dont make it easy - or maybe its the mail order places that are to blame for making me even think that I could get it cheaper.

[DR Buck]

Bought my last two 24" loops from Baileys for $14.95 each plus $7 S&H.

[SawTroll]

I needed a new chain for my 24" bar / 84 cutters and didnt want to wait and buy from the Madsens or Bailey's so I went to my local mower/saw/etc shop.  They had Stihl brand chain - 3/8" full comp, chisel, round gullet ...

...but RS/RSC is also the very best chain, so cheer up.....8)

[SwampDonkey]

Over the internet, there isn't the expense of having a chain on hand like there is at your local shop. That shop has light bills, heat bills, taxes, etc. etc and someone there while the store is open.

Now, there must be a good story behind why you needed to have that chain sudden like.  : ???

Beenthere? I'm sorry, but I have trouble following your explanation. I can't believe that a business on the internet doesn't have the same expenses as the local shop. Unless it's a place called cyberspace. I'm sure there is shipping to keep their shelves stocked, heating and light bills, payroll and taxes being payed by someone. ;)

[Al_Smith]

Stihl does not tell us what to sell it for but they sure dictate our cost.

I didn't know that,I thought they had set prices that dealers were bound to.Thanks for clearing that up.

No,you certainly have to make a profit ,why else be in business.It's good chain,I'll say that but not that good,just my 2 cents worth.

[SwampDonkey]

Oregon chain here is about $20 plus taxes, I find it's as good as manufacturer's chain. I like it even better because it has a line on the teeth for those of us free hand filing. I'm talking chain for a 16 " bar, the one I use to buck up firewood and clean up along the road at the woodlot.

[SwampDonkey]

Al, no. I can get a thinning saw from Steve's for $200 cheaper than at Curries. Same saw.

[Cut4fun]

Something to ask next time you are there, I have heard at stihl dealers that if you buy 2 chains, the 1st one is full price and the 2nd one is half price.

[Ianab]

Beenthere? I'm sorry, but I have trouble following your explanation. I can't believe that a business on the internet doesn't have the same expenses as the local shop. Unless it's a place called cyberspace. I'm sure there is shipping to keep their shelves stocked, heating and light bills, payroll and taxes being payed by someone

A 'shop' on the internet may only exist in cyperspace  :

The guy could be operating out of his basement with minimal stock, ordering gear from a manufacturer as needed, only working the evenings after his normal job. So no rent, wages etc that a normal shop has. Hard to tell from a web page how big or well stocked a 'shop' is.

Also a lot of people selling the cheapest are just fooling themselves that they are actually making money. There is a difference between turnover and profit.

Ian

[SwampDonkey]

There are lots of local shops run that way too. You never know what some shops have until you walk in the door and hear the words 'Oh, but we can order it for ya' ;) One shop told me that all summer and never did order the filter I wanted. I wasn't in a pinch for the filter, but they didn't care anyway. Quite a few chainsaw shops are operated out of a basement or shack across from the house. Or as a side line from a filling station. ;D

I know one fella who is retired and has a shop. He's the owner. His son drives school bus part time and does all the repair work in between.  ;D

I agree on the profit margins. Same applies on ebay auctions, if you wanna give stuff away, fine. But, I'll bet you'll soon find a way to make up for it on another item.

I'll bet the part time, after work fella makes it look like a business with expenses on his tax form. He still has expenses, I don't care how he runs it. ;)

I guess the problem with most responses/statements in a public forum is that it's easy to pick them apart and find exceptions. ;)

[sawguy21]

Stihl does not tell us what to sell it for but they sure dictate our cost.

I didn't know that,I thought they had set prices that dealers were bound to.Thanks for clearing that up.

That is price fixing which is highly illegal. Interestingly, we buy boxed loops of our most common sizes from Stihl. We find that cheaper than making our own chain when we factor the labor in and it sure speeds up service. We still carry bulk for the less common lengths.
We offer the 2nd chain at half price and also do it with the purchase of a new saw. It only pays because of our volume, a small mom and pop shop could not afford it.

[rebocardo]

>  can't believe that a business on the internet doesn't have the same expenses
>  as the local shop.

Who waits on you at the local counter, a stock picker that makes $8 an hour part time or someone that actually has used a chainsaw making $15-$20 an hour?

A local dealer probably does not stock 1000+ of the same loop.

A local business has to pay a lot more tax per sq foot then someone located in the boonies on acres of land located by a railroad track where they can off load a cargo container of material straight from the OEM.

I have sold over the internet, as a business, from a retail office and from my bedroom, the bedroom is much cheaper :-D

I do not think you got ripped, that is about what I pay at my local Husky/Stihl dealer.

[SwampDonkey]

Who waits on you at the local counter, a stock picker that makes $8 an hour part time or someone that actually has used a chainsaw making $15-$20 an hour?

I assume a small engine repair guy with chainsaw experience, not necessarily making a living at cutting wood. Although, some do on the side. We lost one such fella last year to a logging accident.

A local business has to pay a lot more tax per sq foot then someone located in the boonies on acres of land located by a railroad track where they can off load a cargo container of material straight from the OEM.

No question. But why assume all internet businesses are run in this fashion? Does Amazon? They sell tools also.

I have sold over the internet, as a business, from a retail office and from my bedroom, the bedroom is much cheaper :-D

:D :D :D

[SawTroll]

....
I like it even better because it has a line on the teeth for those of us free hand filing.  ....

So does the Stihl chain, at least the RSC......

[SwampDonkey]

I do like Stihl thinning saw blades. They have the line on the teeth and some now are coming pre sharpened and set. When I first bought a thinning saw blade you had to set them and sharpen them out of the box.

[KnotBB]

Has anybody noticed that you don't find Sthil products in the big box stores?  But you do find Huskys.  Sthil decided to support their dealers instead of undercutting them through the big chains with what are considered commodity saws.  Husky opted to go for the big volume.  In this area Sthil and Husky are the favorite saws of fallers and loggers but my local saw shop quit handling Husky (they still repair them) because all they'ed hear was, I can get that saw at XXXX for $50 less.  If we don't support our local dealers there won't be any after awhile.  Just a thought.  If they had more customers they might be able to lower their prices and/or be in business when we need them right now.

I've tried a Sthil chain and can't see any difference but was told the Sthil chain had all the stretch out of it!  lol.  Worked fine till I ran out of adjustment and had to take a link out. 

[sawguy21]

If you need to do that the chain is excessively worn and should be replaced even if the cutters are still good. The cause is usually dirt or lack of lubrication.

[SwampDonkey]

Can't imagine someone bothering to do that (remove a link) unless they are 50 miles in the bush that day. Otherwise get a new one. $20 your old lady would blow on a trinket to collect dust on the shelf. ;) I'm gonna get it for that comment.  :D


But, getting back on track. I'm in full support of a local shop any day. We can't buy parts online for Stihl or Husky that I know of. Although, I refuse to pay $10 for a darn lock nut for the blade. Anyone got a source? There are 4 in a package I think, and they want $10 for one. Most outrageous thing i ever heard tell of. Of course I can remember the old Deere trimmer I had that I used to cut light bush. The lock not got lost by my brother. Always losing stuff. Anyway, I do remember that thing was $10   20 years ago.  :

cheers  ;D

[Al_Smith]

 What in the world is a locknut for a blade?Circular saw,perhaps?
A Stihl bar nut is just an oversized metric nut .The older one were just metric flange nuts,which you could buy by the box if you wanted to through McMaster -Carr or any number of hardware suppliers.

[sawguy21]

SD is referring to the blade nut on a brushcutter, not a chainsaw.

[beenthere]

The one that has the reverse threads? 

[SwampDonkey]

Yip, the left hand threaded nut with teflon or plastic ? inside the thread.

They are $12 for a Husky or ECHO brush saw. DOH!!   

[sawguy21]

And metric. Not your run of the mill hardware item.

[SwampDonkey]

You know more about it than me possibly. It might be metric if your talking about thread count, don't know. But it takes a 3/4 inch wrench on a Stihl FS 550. Doesn't cost anymore to spin the thread left, then it does right. I know the volumes being made might not be the same, but there are a lot of brush saws used in silviculture. Probably, in all probability way more in Europe. A lot of areas in the states never thin trees pre-commercially or of significant acreage. Some states don't have many big clearcut tracts, which in itself can be a good thing.

[beenthere]

Probably metric nut that takes a 19mm wrench, however the 3/4 SAE will work because they are so close to being the same.

Which brush cutter blade do you use?
I use the circular saw blade w/chisel teeth for the brush cutter?. They are for small tree stems (up to 1-2") and take a round file to sharpen them. I find they cut better than the flat toothed blades that need setting (similar to the buzz-saw blade pic'd couple days ago).

Edit
I edited my typo. I wondered where SD got the impression I used the blade that needed setting. I only use a round file to sharpen the teeth that are like teeth in a chainsaw chain. Long ago I used the flat tooth blades that needed setting, but they are not so good for woody stems.

[SwampDonkey]

1 tooth per inch. The teeth are preset on the new blades they are selling, but i have had to set them out of the box a couple years ago. You still have to check set every other day. We file them with a round file at 20 degree hook. A flat file is used on an old blade if you want to get a few more days from it, then sharpened with a round file as usual. They are about $20 per blade at the shops. Same blade works on Husky and Echo also.

beenthere, you might find that brush saw has more bite if it's set. I had a light Deere brush saw 20 years ago and I was a green horn at thinning and never new they needed to be set, let alone sharpened. ;D :D :D I was just cutting high bush cranberry and mountain ash in the back yard. Took for ever on 1 acre. :D :D

[ElectricAl]

We just bought a new MSE180 electric chainsaw. Linda called 3 local dealers, 2 had the same price for a unit with a 16" bar. The third claimed that a 16" bar was a $10 upgrade >:(

We bought the saw from the third dealer because he is a pleasent helpfull owner, even though he was $10 higher.

We had been buying $50 remington electric chain saws from the hardware store. They last 8 months to nearly a year.

This time we decided to see if a Stihl can last 8 years for our $400.

The actual price was $379.99 plus 19.00 in tax so $398.99 out the door :-\

The first thing I noticed was a Stihl 16" bar is only 14" from the spir to the tip. Where as the Remington was 16" from the spir to the tip.  Not sure if we can get a 18" bar to get the 16" We're use to ???

[SwampDonkey]

My uncle had a Husky for 20 years just for stove wood cutting, until someone stole it this summer. I have a Husky model 50 for around the same price as your Stihl, with 16" bar. Had it since 2001 I think, just for firewood and cleaning up dead fall along the road. I'm pretty sure it will last awhile if you take proper care of it.

[bitternut]

SwampDonkey that nut with the plastic insert is called a nylock nut. Thats supposed to prevent the nut from backing off but they wear out pretty fast if you are changing the blade very often. I think I would get myself a small bottle of loctite and a few spare regular nuts. A few drops should work when changing blade.

[Tony_T]

I needed a new chain for my 24" bar / 84 cutters and didnt want to wait and buy from the Madsens or Bailey's so I went to my local mower/saw/etc shop.  They had Stihl brand chain - 3/8" full comp, chisel, round gullet for a whopping total $39 incl tax.  I bought it but I sure wasnt happy about it.  I have heard that Stilh is the most expensive chain but that is a lot expecially when Madsens is selling 2 for 1 and Baileys is about $14 plus s/h of course.

Ouch!

Tim

Somebody has 3 of the same 84 dL RS chains and new ES stihl bar on ebay for $99

[Al_Smith]

 Well,in answer to the nut for the clearing saw,I did a little research through that mountain of parts lists I have.I could not find the machine in question but found two different sizes listed for the others that use nuts,instead of screws.

The two sizes are M 10 by 1 and M 12 by 1.5 .Some are left hand flange nuts some are just left hand hex nuts,both I assume these are Nylock type.

I might have figured before I even looked it that it would be some thing out of the ordinary,as is the typical Stihl method of doing things.

Sooo,I'm afraid if you own one of these clearing saws and loose the nut you just have to bite the bullit,so to speak.Go to the dealer,hat in hand,and poney up the money.Get your nut and then grumble under your breath and exit the shop before you blow a gasket :D

Then on the other hand you could find a piece of hex stock,chuck it up in a lathe and make a nut.All this will most likely take a couple of hours,not counting the mistakes you might make and have to throw away,as would be my case.

Ah,but alas,all in all remember,this is some of the finest stuff made but of course this comes with a price,high,I might add. ;D

[SwampDonkey]

bitternut, we leave the blade attached and sharpen with a good pair of gloves. Just sacrifice a tree and cut it high, make a notch in the top of the stump. Set the blade in it and have a screw driver handy to brake the blade and sharpen.  8)

beenthere, I was looking at the Stihl accessory page and I didn't see a blade like you described. I saw a blade with finer teeth. I guess I thought that was the blade you had.

Sorry about that.  ;)

[beenthere]

Stihl part no. 4112 713 4203.  Chisel tooth saw blade for brushcutters.  On their website too. 

[SwampDonkey]

ok, beenthere. It must not be available in Canada.

Here's the page I was at. Ones we use are bottom right.

http://www.stihl.ca/products_trimBrushClear_cuttingHeads.asp

I don't even see a search function on the Canadian site, to find a part number.

[sawguy21]

A couple of thoughts. I believe all brushcutters rotate counter-clockwise as viewed from the top so a left hand thread nut or bolt is necessary to keep it from backing off. Apparently the direction of rotation is a safety standard to help reduce the risk of kickback as most operators are right handed and sweep right to left. I am a southpaw and have learned to live with it. ;D
Also, Lock-tite on a nylock fastener defeats the purpose, the stuff attacks the nylon ring.

[Furby]

Anyone check the size of a cheap no name weed wacker nut?
Some have a plastic bump head on them that you can pull off the nut.
Not all of them are nylock though.

[SwampDonkey]

Probably still around $10 bucks Furby.  :(  Remember that Deere I mentioned, pretty light duty saw and your right, no nylock and $10. Now it would be less of a blow if the guy would hand you the 4 nuts sealed in the bag, but he insists on removing only one from the bag before heading to the till.  : You realize that's nearly half a day's pay for 4 measly nuts.

[Furby]

Under $5 around here.