So what is a log in the modern market?

[Bert]

Drove 50 miles this evening to cruise some timber on a good reference. The landowner pulled me into the side of a field and showed me a pile of pixie sticks and said we left these logs out of the firewood pile when we were cleaning up along the edge. I told him they were still firewood, wheres the good ones you want cut?  He said he worked at a sawmill in the 70's and those were good logs back then. He grabbed a can of paint and started marking trees, after the 6th one I had to tell him he was wasting paint. He said so what is considered a saw log in the modern market? If it isnt  12" across on the small end it isnt a log to me. Its firewood. Wasted trip, but got to see a 60's franklin skidder in a shed.

[OH logger]

how did he respond?

[Dave Shepard]

I can make some small timber frame parts from 10" logs,  but to get anything decent lumberwise, 12" would be s reasonable small end diameter.

[Banjo picker]

And bark don't count.  Banjo

[4x4American]

I also prefer 12" and up but I find myself sawing 8" logs too

[lopet]

In the hardwood market I probably have to agree with you, if you wanna make a few bucks.
On the other hand when you buy 2x4 softwood lumber a lot of them showing the center of the tree and you quite often wonder, how big ( or small that tree ) was.

[mike_belben]

If its real straight and clean i can sell an 11" dib white oak for a tie. Any sweep and itll go down to a 3 common.  On an 8footer that pays about $3.  Half that if they call it pallet.. Not worth putting on the trailer

12" inside bark and 10'6 is your standard sawlog starting point here.  Only tie cutters will take shorter.

[Bert]

how did he respond?

He was understanding that there just wasnt alot of money in his stand. They are good straight trees and a real nice place to cut but just smallish timber. I got the impression he thought he had something special based on timber uses back in the 70's. Alot of the smaller stuff was sawed and used in steel mill and coal mines for blocking in those times. Now its really hard to move that kind of material and logs are a dime a dozen. I saw alot of 8" logs on my mill but i cant afford to buy the timber, log and truck them 50 miles for what I'll get out of the end. If there were more bigger trees in the patch then another story. I know all of us go through these things I was just intrigued by the "modern" log question he asked. Has whats considered a log changed over the years? Yes

[Ianab]

Thing is you compete on a global market now.

Here in NZ a load of logs like this rolls through our small town every 10 mins, and we aren't even in a major timber area.


They are either processed locally and loaded into a container, or loaded directly on a ship heading to Asia. Either way, once the wood is on a ship, it can be carried pretty much any place in the world for negligible extra cost. Now with decent logs like those ~25 year old pine logs, would you try and compete by sawing 8" logs? It's not that they can't be sawn into something, but it's low grade and likely to cost more than importing a container load of Pine or DF from Canada / NZ / Chile. And NZ does export a significant amount of lumber to the US.

Locally they don't do any harvesting until the final clear cut. Any thinning cuts are simply cut to waste and left to rot. The cost of recovering the post or pulp logs is more than the value.

Now I will putz around with a sound 8" dia log, if it's something usefull like some sort of Cedar etc. But I'm not running a commercial mill that's in competition with someone processing the logs in that pic above.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Appears to be straight, nice diameter logs on that truck.
At that apparent diameter the growth rings must be approaching 1/2" each.
Plantation grown?
Is this used for structural product?
Must be rather weak material.

[Corley5]

  Anything less than 8" diam. on the small end is pulp/firewood.  When markets are good 7" and gun barrel straight will pass.  8"-10" diam. cut 100"- 124" long with minimal sweep is a saw bolt.  11" minimum diam. and up cut 124" or 150" are grade logs.  Once again gun barrel straight will get some leeway.  Those are the general hardwood specs around here. 
  Our local veneer mill Manthei's in Petoskey burnt to the ground last night :( :(

[snowstorm]

Spruce  fir in the northeast goes down to a 4 inch top for studwood

[Ianab]

Appears to be straight, nice diameter logs on that truck.
At that apparent diameter the growth rings must be approaching 1/2" each.
Plantation grown?
Is this used for structural product?
Must be rather weak material.

In spite of the fast growth (Annual rings can hit 1" wide in a good growing spot) it's strength is similar to other species of pine. The trees have been selectively developed over the years for wood production, so they aren't just random pine trees any more. Straight grain, small knots, or completely clear wood if the tree has been pruned.

Strength in a building is about engineering the design to suit the material. You upsize the structural members to give the strength you need, and laminated / engineered beams etc are commonly used.  Most houses in NZ are built with treated pine, and many smaller commercial buildings, and they handle storms and earthquakes pretty well.

Now personally I don't like pine to work with, but as construction lumber it's good stuff.

But mainly I was pointing out that this is the competition in the global timber market. And you aren't going to compete with those if you are logging and sawing toothpicks. There is of course smaller top logs harvested for pulp and chips, but those are almost a "by product". They are sitting there on the landing, so they get loaded on a truck and hauled away. No one harvests just for pulp wood.

[mad murdock]

Here in the PNW of the US of A, softwood (Doug fir, cedar, white fir, etc) goes down to 6" inside the bark, some mills go to 5" inside the bark.  Hardwood a bit larger.  A lot of the new computerized mills like the small diameter logs, because the scale is in their favor, they get up to 150% overrun on the board end with the small diameter 38'-40' logs when it comes to breaking them down at the mill. That is what they pretty much bank on these days.  If you send in anything over 34-36" inside the bark, they will cull it or pay very little and send it to one of the few mills still operational that can handle larger logs.

[mike_belben]

I have noticed with barrel and handle staves..  and pallet.  They all used to buy short wood, even split bolts.  Same equipment but now none do. 

They get a lot of extra log for free out of the taper using doyle scale and insisting on 3 segment multiples.  Lot faster to tally up too.

[Ken]

We don't cut a lot of hardwood logs but generally they have to be at least 8" and more often 10".  The softwood side of things is much different.  There are markets that allow us to cut logs down to 4" with lengths from 8-16'.  As we begin to see more and more previously pre-commercially thinned stands come into marketable size these small diameter markets are critical.  Many mills are specifically designed to handle a large volume of these small sticks.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Is your NZ pine Radiata?

[Ianab]

Is your NZ pine Radiata?

Yep.

[Bert]

I have pretty much zero experience in softwood. For hardwoods,even 8' 6 -12" logs in this area get scoffed at. Ideal is around 16" and 10 or 12 foot. Otherwise its a tough sell. I remember my dad selling 10" hard maples for a buck a foot 15 years ago and theyd come get 10 logs :D Not anymore

[mike_belben]

Id be rich if that was the case.  I have an endless supply of pathetic timber!