Almost forgotten sawmill

[Bill Gaiche]

Was out in Gallatin, Tn and came back through where Arky had his sawmill. I had to stop and take a look at what I had seen almost two years ago. Doesn't seem like it did when I picked up a load of cedar beams that he had sawed for my neighbor. It was sad to see some good equipment just sitting without a sawyer to operate it. It seems like everything was the same except the LT70 was sitting away from the building that it was in. Lots of sawn lumber and log laying all around going to waste. A lot of sweat and blood went into this for it to be wasting away. Hope Arky is doing ok. Anybody heard from him lately?


  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 

[Fla._Deadheader]

Hi
We're from the Bank and we're here to help-

SHUT YOU DOWN.

What a bunch of losers the banks are. Sure proved their point to everyone.

[LeeB]

Not everything is still there. Vandals stole all the easy to carry stuff. It is a shameful waste. I suspect politics had much to do with it.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

A Big X2 Mate  : ??? :P Banks have forgotten where wage earners come from and  thats from Business people who are willing to take the risk on them  : Sad part is was not just arky that got screwed the whole town did  :( :'(

I have had it happen to my family twice now and ill be danged if i will let myself get in that position but if n when I do have to borrow Ill make it hurt as one logging contractor down here said to me when I was a kid Just borrow enough to keep em  scared to pull the pin on you    ;)  :D :D

So far I have never had a loan for a piece of equipment and my view is they where not willing to help when I was doing the hard yards with setting up and getting going why should I let them become bloody business partners now  ??? ???

Its a shame to see all that gear sitting when people could be making a living  :P :P ??? ??? : :

Regards Chris

[Magicman]

A sad state of affairs where no one wins and everyone looses.   :-\  It is very depressing.   :'(

[wwsjr]

I had the oportunity to visit with Arky a few years ago. It appears everyone was a loser. It is a shame, he is a hard working man.

[Compensation]

So......why didn't he come back to take the goods. I bought a house that was a repo, they didn't know it even had a barn. Once I bought it they had a clean up crew aka thieves strip the place the same day I was signing papers. Took anything of scrap value even a windmill in concrete and left trash everywhere. They even ripped light fixtures right out of the ceiling. Now I have two holes since they were not hardwired in. Personally if I was there you would see a wm getting hooked up to a reciever.

[Ga Mtn Man]

It is a sad thing. :(  I think this happened before I joined the FF, but I run across his posts often and he was/is a wealth of information.

I guess the equipment belongs to the bank.  I wonder why it hasn't been auctioned off yet?

[Bibbyman]

 

Howdy,   sorry I have not kept in contact but life has been a bit tough.  Lbj got sick a few weeks back and went blind last week.  She died today.  I sure hope things ate going better there on the farm
Arky

I got this note from Arky earlier this week.



 

[Bill Gaiche]

It is a mystery to why the bank has not sold the equipment and such to recoup some of there money if they are in such bad shape. Isn't that what we would do if it had happened to us. I figured the LT70 we be gone if it belonged to someone else.  Maybe the bank is better off with no income than just a little from Arky. So much for good business. bg

[thecfarm]

Them pictures are sure hard to look at.  :(

[barbender]

That is an absolute shame, why wasn't that equipment sold if they needed to foreclose on him? I miss Arky, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to look at anything milling related ever again >:(  Was that his dog that died, Bibby? I hope things get better for him.

[Bibbyman]

Was that his dog that died, Bibby? I hope things get better for him.

I think so. He had two for a while but LBJ was his constant companion.

[Ron Wenrich]

I thought there was someone on the forum that had some sort of claim on the equipment.  Only vaguely remember it.  It could be sitting waiting for some sort of judgement.  Sometimes local government is harsher than big government. 

[Bibbyman]

I don't know if is the case here but I think there was a great number of financial institutions that merged or sold off loans or went out of business and assets assumed by bigger institutions, on and on until nobody knows who actually owns what.

Another explanation could be the bank just wrote off the loss and collected insurance and thus not interested in recovering from the sale of the equipment or property.

[OneWithWood]

LBJ was Arky's constant companion.  At one time he had another dog also but Woody ran off or something.

David, if you see this post, know we are thinking about you and the loss of LBJ.

[Larry]

I don't know if is the case here but I think there was a great number of financial institutions that merged or sold off loans or went out of business and assets assumed by bigger institutions, on and on until nobody knows who actually owns what.

Another explanation could be the bank just wrote off the loss and collected insurance and thus not interested in recovering from the sale of the equipment or property.

The property, along with quite a few others were for sale on the banks web site until last year when they were removed as a group.  I don't know why, so you might be right.

A large timber property next to us was sold to a west coast investor that has never sat foot on his property.  He hired a local surveyor that told me I would probably never meet the owner or see any activity on the land.

[Bill Gaiche]

If he did lose his best friend lbj I can understand his feelings. I had a neighbor that lost his dog a little over a year ago from a copperhead bite. He still hasn't got over it, he went through a depression stage for months.
Big money has no friends when it comes to little people most of the time. bg

[mad murdock]

Too bad about his dog. The equipment going to waste, the people whose lives are disrupted by the bank action- a tragedy. I hope you are seeing brighter days Arky.

[millstead]

Wow I can't believe someone has not stolen everything yet. Around here all that would be left is a the buildings

[roghair]

When I read this I feel embarrassed I can afford to saw as a hobby :-[

[1woodguy]

   I really liked reading his posts! And what happened sucked
As far as banks ....how I think about banks . Those words will get ya put in the woodshed
  Around here even the buildings would be gone

[dgdrls]

When I read this I feel embarrassed I can afford to saw as a hobby :-[

Me too, as stated earlier that is hard to look at.
  I do not know enough about this situation but,   perhaps there is an opportunity here to help??

DGDrls

[Corley5]

Sorry about LBJ  :(  Those pics are a sad sight.  Around here anything like that especially with wheels on it would have been long gone by now.

[mikeb1079]

that expensive equipment is just sitting there?  weird that it hasn't been stolen. depressing for sure, reminds me of the great woody guthrie line:  some will rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen.  although i'd add that the guy with the fountain pen usually takes more.   :(

[SPIKER]

Around here there would not be any metal left anywhere and any wood structure would be spray painted and or vandalized beyond repair...

Must be much better people in TN...

Sorry to hear about him loosing the dog, always hard to loose a fury companion.

Mark

[flyboy16101]

Wow I can't believe someone has not stolen everything yet. Around here all that would be left is a the buildings

Millstead, things must be different in Butler county here in Lawrence the drug addicts take the buildings too.

Its a shame to see the bank rob good hard working people, and all that nice equipment sit.

[Satamax]

Daft idea, couldn't someone make an offer to the bank, an obscenely low offer. Then, sell it back to Arky for that price. :D Or he could steal it himself ;D Before some idiot drug adict tries to do it and trashes it. There's isn't a law in the US, where you declare something to the lost and found, and one year and a day later it's yours? He could go along that line too!  ;D

[Dave Shepard]

I'm sorry to hear about LBJ. :(

This has been tough to see. I didn't realize that they got Wanda, too. Seeing all that potential, the shattered dreams, sitting, going to waste, that really stinks.

[jerry-m]

 
JUST A THOUGHT,   CHECK WITH A LAWYER FIRST.....

Here in Texas if no one is paying the Taxes, anyone can pay them and assume possession make improvement,etc.. However the true owner can reclaim the property by repaying the person
for taxes he payed and also must pay for all improvements he  made... 

Of course the property would have to be abandoned as this seems to be...

Don't know Tennessee law... Don't really know if this is still true in
   Texas at this date. Its been many years since I dealt in real estate...


Someone might check the law in Tennessee...

[beenthere]

The lost mill is in Arkansas, not TN.  ;)

Suspect the Bank is payin the property tax

[5quarter]

Arky...If yer readin this, real sorry to hear about LBJ. I'd give my mill or whatever else I had to get my Coco Dog back. Mills are things...Dogs ain't things.

[John Bartley]

I always feel bad when I see an honest hard working person lose a lifetime of effort. I'm sure that many of us are sitting here reading this and we've also probably read the entire 22 pages of the Arkansawyer saga, and we are looking at ourselves and wondering how much different it could be for us given different circumstances in our lives.

Maybe the real opportunity here is for someone who is headed down the same path, to read the story and learn from it, ask the questions about how it happened and why, and how can we avoid the same fate? What could we do differently? We can bash the banks all we like, and they often deserve it as I could, but won't attest to from my own experience, but the fact is that for every business that borrows and fails there is at least one that borrows and succeeds. What is the difference between them and why are their outcomes so different?

Just some thoughts I had ....

John (also self-employed and also would rather cut off an arm than borrow from a bank)

When I read this I feel embarrassed I can afford to saw as a hobby :-[

Me too, as stated earlier that is hard to look at.
  I do not know enough about this situation but,   perhaps there is an opportunity here to help??

DGDrls

[Magicman]

It could be a case of overgrowing the potential market for that area.  Overgrowing could include employees as well as equipment.

[Bibbyman]

Well could have been a combination of events.  I think mainly it was the downturn in economy and unable to get good help and keep it.

As for Arky, I suspect he's turned to a new chapter in his life. 

[WH_Conley]

I think the economy was the main culprit, the only reason I didn't go the same way that there was no banker involved. Arky had a well thought out plan, Circumstances just didn't work that way. I would guess that if Arky made any mistakes on the labor end it was giving credit that the help would be at least close to as good a worker as he is. He is the old school type that will give it all he has, regardless if it is his name on the door or for a paycheck. Truth be known, that kind of help is hard to find.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I believe Arky's problem was CREDIT. He had to pay up front for logs, but, his accounts did not pay quickly. He said IF the bank would float him a little, he could buy logs and sell for instant payment, until he got paid the credit accts.

I believe Cedarman says, pay me before it leaves the yard.

Offering credit for product produced is not the way to go for small operators.

[Magicman]

I did not intend to be judgmental of Arky and his business dealings.  I am sure that it was a spiral of circumstances, because I remember following his posts concerning his dealing with the bank.  His honesty and desire to offer a product and well as providing jobs for his labor was never in question.

[Paul_H]

I know one elderly member here had loaned David a substantial amount of money from his retirement savings and has not been paid back.I know this from an email I sent a month ago wondering why he hasn't been on for awhile.

[Bill Gaiche]

Was out in Gallatin, Tn and came back through where Arky had his sawmill. I had to stop and take a look at what I had seen almost two years ago. Doesn't seem like it did when I picked up a load of cedar beams that he had sawed for my neighbor. It was sad to see some good equipment just sitting without a sawyer to operate it. It seems like everything was the same except the LT70 was sitting away from the building that it was in. Lots of sawn lumber and log laying all around going to waste. A lot of sweat and blood went into this for it to be wasting away. Hope Arky is doing ok. Anybody heard from him lately?


  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 

Update in a way. I was by Arky's old mill site yesterday. I walked in because there were some barrier tape across the entrance that said caution. The photos above are from a year ago April and that place looks the same to a tee except for the rotting logs, lumber, weather beaten buildings and a bunch of weeds growing up all over. I know that some have mixed feeling about what happened and I understand. Its still sad that all this equipment still sits unused. bg

[LeeB]

Wish I had known you were here Bill. I'm only 15 minutes away.

[ddcuning]

As a side line financial counselor, I see this kind of stuff a lot.

Everyone here can bash the banks (they are idiots) but the blame lies solely on debt. Going into debt on the promise of a business is what most likely caused this situation(understanding that I don't know the details, just assumptions from reading the post). I have a sawmill as a hobby, it took me three years to restore it and I did it all in cash including the property it sits on. If I no one asks me to saw something on the side for a month or a year, it is no big deal. The only thing I am out is my pleasure in running the mill. Looking at the pictures, there is a lot of expensive equipment that I assume had debt on it. When you are considering starting a business, start small with equipment you can pay cash for and work your way up to the more expensive equipment as you build a customer base and can pay cash for equipment upgrades. It takes time and effort to do this but it avoids these types of situations. I don't know this situation and the details I am simply giving my opinion to help people avoid these types of situations.

Recognized debt for what it is. It is a thief that steals your ability to be successful and build wealth. Years ago, I thought it was a tool to get ahead and then I recognized it as a thief and treated it as such. After that recognition, I became much more successful and all of a sudden was able to build cash for things I wanted due to the fact that I had no payments each month.

I know that my position is countercultural and lots of people will disagree with me but that is fine. If this post helps even one person avoid this type of situation, then I will take all the criticism you can throw at me.

Dave C

[BBTom]

Do not lay all the blame on the banks.  Lay the majority of the blame on Frank-Dodd banking legislation.  It required banks to drop many of their under and unsecured loans.  They pulled Arky's operating loan, which destroyed his business plan.  I understand because the bank pulled mine, too.  Dave had a plan, and was on his way to achieve it, but the guberment made certain that small town bankers cannot make judgement on the worth of a human being. 

[LeeB]

Lot's of things went on before the bank pulled the plug.

[Bill Gaiche]

LeeB, I saw a sign along the way that said Pyatt but don't remember where at the moment. Could you fill in your location in your profile? Yes I could have made a stop to say howdy. I said something to my wife about a FF member may live near Pyatt, but couldn't think of anyone at the time. I agree ddcuning, that a person has to take responsibility for there own actions when it comes to financing. I also understand how changes in the economy can take you down. Its not easy to make a living by owning your own business and your suggestion are good and helpful to others. bg

[beenthere]

but the blame lies solely on debt.

Right on Dave C

As is the problem of the Feds telling the banks that they have to loan money to people who need it, but cannot pay it back. IMO
The banks are a business... not another entitlement.

I worried about Arky when he got into politics and lost to the local leader. I think that cast a spell of doom over his future. But again, just an opinion and really thought Arky had some great ideas and motivation.
But alas, didn't turn out well for him.
Sometimes we just have to sit back and hope for the best.

[Ron Wenrich]

I worked for one client for 30 years who didn't have a debt load.  They bought new equipment at the end of the year to bring down their taxes.  They paid cash.  Sometimes they bought used equipment if it was a good deal. 

I worked for 2 other clients that worked on debt.  Neither one lasted more than 1 year.

[Cedarman]

Used properly debt is a tool, just the same as a chainsaw is a tool that allows you to cut wood a lot faster than with a crosscut saw.  Etc. 
My son Aaron and I had the idea of turning the ERC in Ok into mulch.  This had never been done before.  A few feeble attempts were made, but no one followed through.  We had to invent the whole system from moving the trees, to loading truck, to marketing.  Not that others hadn't done parts of what we attempted.  No one had done it with ERC into mulch. 
We borrowed over $500,000 to make it go.  Paid off in 5 years and borrowed a bunch again to buy a much bigger grinder. 
We could have went broke, but these opportunities come along only so often.  So we went for it.
Again, debt is a tool that we had to use to be able to build a business.
Debt is foolish when you are not buying capital items that will help magnify your income.
Sure, it would be ideal to build and expand your business out of cash flow, but capital intensive businesses will really struggle if it is a startup business.
Now when I expand our sawmill, I have enough cash to expand or buy new equipment.  Uncle Sam helps buy it.

[Peter Drouin]

The sawmill business takes a lot of money to start up . The saw is just the small part, Getting the $1000.00s in logs and lumber is the money part, Selling is the hard part.
And in the northeast [in the summer time]w pine don't wait for you to cut it up , It will go bad :D :D :D
So how much pine do you keep on hand? 1000 BF or 10,000BF in logs? :D
How about limber 10,000BF or 100,000BF? :D :D And that will go bad too in time. :D
How about hemlock how much 2"x do you keep, What about the hard wood, that stuff can't hang around.
Some guys don't care and let logs degrade then cut when they have an order, but that way your loosen BF that you paid for. and the wood is stained and hard to cut dry logs. Dry logs are a pith.  :D

That's why the town is coming Monday to give me my perment to make the mill shed bigger. so I can pay more in tax too. :D :D :D
It doesn't end :D :D :D :D

[backwoods sawyer]

I feel for Arkansasawyer in this situation always seemed to be a hard worker with a drive.

When I got started I had the option of buying an already up and running hardwood business with sawmill, edger, solar kiln and retail store, but would have had to borrow a fair amount of money. I opted to pay cash for all my equipment and start out small and grow as I went.

Six years later I was 21 years into a 30 yr mortgage having never been late on a payment when my wife filed for divorce locked the business up for six months before the judge granted me the sawmill and tools to run it, ex got the house, log yard and lumber yard wood shop and tools to run it all until the divorce is finalized. Two years into the divorce the ex has not made a single mortgage payment, the place has been up for sheriff sale twice, she postponed the first one by filing bankruptcy, she seems to be running out of options and eviction is imminent.

I have spent enough to buy a new sawmill on the divorce rewrote my business plan and went 100% mobile serving a larger area. While working out on the high desert met little Jo who has become a great sawyer and partner, made a deal on the equipment from another sawmill operation that was closing down due to lack of cash flow. Two generations lost their nest egg on that one. 
Eight years ago it would have been hard to predict how the chain of events would have unfolded.

In 1982 there was 18 larger sawmills in the county spotted owl came to town and in 1984 we were down to 9 sawmills scraping to keep the doors open.

Something for anyone who is thinking about starting a sawmill business to ponder.

[Peter Drouin]

We all try to do the best you can .But running any business is a crap shoot.  :D :D

[Cedarman]

For those in business, how many times have you beat the check to the bank?
And if the check beats you to the bank, you get to go to the penalty box.  Too many times in the penalty box and you lose the game.

[Magicman]

Often times the business overgrows the market, and with borrowed money, it is disaster.

Whether sawing, selling, or a combination of both, your market is the determining factor that will decide your future.  Not your sawmill or your ability/desire to saw.

[Peter Drouin]

Often times the business overgrows the market, and with borrowed money, it is disaster.

Whether sawing, selling, or a combination of both, your market is the determining factor that will decide your future.  Not your sawmill or your ability/desire to saw.

True, 
And the ability to get LOGS. Without logs you cannot go for more markets.

[Cedarman]

There are 3 things I have to balance.
1  log or material supply
2  processing equipment and labor
3 market
Right now log supply is somewhat of a problem of not enough to keep me happy
I have to turn away a considerable  number of customers since we cannot process fast enough.  This does allow me to raise prices, which allows me to pay more for logs.  So far, paying more for logs has not produced an influx.  My competitors say the same thing.
We could expand and hire more help, but without more logs, that is pointless.

[Ron Wenrich]

Many operations fail because of logs.  Most mills in my area buy standing timber and contract out the logging work.  Those that depend on buying logs can starve.  Even if there is an ample supply of logs in the area. 

[Peter Drouin]

That's one thing i'm doing Monday, go see a logger just started a mile away.
I have 3 loggers now and need more

[StimW]

Do not lay all the blame on the banks.  Lay the majority of the blame on Frank-Dodd banking legislation.  It required banks to drop many of their under and unsecured loans.  They pulled Arky's operating loan, which destroyed his business plan.  I understand because the bank pulled mine, too.  Dave had a plan, and was on his way to achieve it, but the guberment made certain that small town bankers cannot make judgement on the worth of a human being.

The law is/was Dodd-Frank (after the two senators who sponsored it).
I am a dealer for several brands of construction equipment. My biggest supplier with international sales in business for 39 years had a line of credit with their bank and was current with payments. After D-F the bank had to call their note because of reduced federal regulation limits.
The company could not meet the new terms and the bank foreclosed and sold the note to another large Corporation (think spanish bull??). The old company was employee owned and they walked away with nothing! (I was told by a senor employee)
The new company had me fill out a credit app (my credit is PERFECT!!) but because I don't have a Dunn and Bradstreet account they have put me on COD.
That company was about 80% of my business. I was able to change directions and switch to the other companies I am a dealer for and it really hasn't hurt me.
How does that saying go?- I'm from the government and I am here to help you!

[OneWithWood]

The banks had and still have a lot of choices on which loans they call, make or don't make.  The Dodd-Frank bill is just the convenient excuse.  The liquidity requirements can be met in any number of fashions.