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Edging

Started by learner, December 19, 2012, 11:23:41 PM

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learner

Edging boards on the mill is my least desirable job.  But until we get our edger back up and running, it's a neccesary part of the sawing process.
Some boards only need 1" shaved off but others need 2"'s or more.  When edging, how much of a cut do you take?  I've been going 2"'s, to save on cuts.  But I've noticed a bit of waste on some boards.  Any advice?
WoodMizer LT40 Super Hydraulic, MF-300 FEL, Nissan Enduro 60 forklift, 2 Monkey Wards Power Kraft Radial arm saws, Rockwell series 22-200 planer, Prentiss 210 loader

paul case

fix the edger quick.

I make all the same sizes out of my edgings so I do waste some. It is my least favorite job as well. PC

:christmas:

life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

WoodenHead

+1 on fixing the edger quickly  ;)

I usually take 1" cuts to maximize my board footage, but that comes at a price.  Taking 2" cuts may save enough time to make up for the lost board feet.  I haven't measured the difference to know for sure.

At least you have an edger to fix...   :D

Cedarman

Depends on the value of the board.  For cedar at $1.20 per board foot, a 1" x 8" strip is worth $.80 when left on the board.  If you have  5 boards out of 12 that would lose that inch, then you are losing $4.00 worth of wood.  An extra 2 minutes of time is well worth that.
If the wood is worth $.30 per board foot, then you are losing $1.00.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Magicman

All flitches are not created equal.  Stack the ones that are comparable in size (largest or whatever) and edge them.  Many times some of them with one side edged will fit with the next smaller batch.  Just keep reducing them.  Edging makes stickers and boards.  $$

Since edging is a necessary part of sawing, I find it better to enjoy it since my mind is one thing that I can control....sometimes.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Red Clay Hound

I agree with Magicman.  I have an edger, but I don't always take it on mobile jobs.  If I need stickers, I stack the boards on the mill and take off one inch at a time.  After each cut, I will remove or flip the boards that have a good edge.  In the meantime, I'm producing a lot of stickers! :)
2007 Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic with 51 hp. Cat; 2007 Wood-Mizer EG200 Twin Blade Edger; Woodmaster 718 Molder/Planer; Stihl MS460 and MS362 Chainsaws; 2011 John Deere 5065 with JD 553 Loader

drobertson

I do all edging on the mill, have since 05' yea it sometimes gets old dealing with a mixed group of different sizes. Like MM said, I keep like sizes together and have a minimal amount of wast. I really depends on where the boards are going. If to the flooring mill, I keep the wane to a minimum, if for private use, I suggest to leave some of the wane, due to the waste that comes from edging when the boards are dried and processed. Some times If the folks are going to air dry them I leave one edge square and leave the other alone, I let them decide the board width after drying.  Whatever the custormer wants I try to give it to them. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Chuck White

I do all my edging on the sawmill and once I got a system down, it doesn't take long to edge a stack of flitches!

I will saw a log, then when I get the cant cut down to 5" thick, I'll put all of the flitches on the mill and clamp them between the cant and the clamp.

The cant serves as a straight edge to clamp against, which equals more support.

My first cut into the flitches will yield at least 1 flitch with a clean edge.

I will then take the flitches with a clean edge and turn it over and make another cut.

When doing this, I will take the boards out when they are clean at 12, 10, 8, etc. inches wide, depending on what the customer has asked for!

Each of the 1" cuts yields stickers!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

learner

Chuck, I really like your idea of tossing flitches on with the cants.  It lets you make the standard cuts and edge without wasting time on extra cuts in order to save wood.
And the added stability is even better!  We got the kiln finished today and half loaded.  We will finish loading it tomorrow then we can get back to sawing.
David, is that right drobertson?  I also like what you do about letting the customer decide.
When it comes to hourly charges they might decide to not have the live edged boards edged.  And I really think that Any time we can save them on the bill will make them Happier and keep them coming back.
MM I'm ALLWAYS putting some aside for stickers because I run out of them a lot!  Now that the kiln is finished though I can start reclaiming some of them.  With 145 8' and longer logs in the yard and another 80 acres of logs coming, I'm gonna need all the stickers I can cut!
Thank You Gentlemen!  You ALL have helped tremendously!
:christmas:
WoodMizer LT40 Super Hydraulic, MF-300 FEL, Nissan Enduro 60 forklift, 2 Monkey Wards Power Kraft Radial arm saws, Rockwell series 22-200 planer, Prentiss 210 loader

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

The real question is "How much edging do pieces NEED?" 

For hardwood lumber, common and better grade, the rule for lumber grading is to have an edge with half wood and half wane, but never more than half wane.  Then, more wood can be removed and less wane, as needed.  But with a 12' board., each extra one inch removed is a board foot.

In studies of edging practices at larger mills, pieces were over edged with a loss of about 25% in value of all the lumber edged over a day's time.  Automatic computerized edgers with vision can produce lumber with a value of over 92% of the best.

For hardwoods, it is a good idea to understand the critical widths for each length.  For example, for a 12' piece of lumber, a piece that is 7-15/32" in width is 7 BF, while 7-17/32" is 8 BF or 14% more footage.  For FAS grade, it is easier to make the grade when 8 BF than 7 BF.  this width factor is also important when a cant is produced and will be resawn into lumber.

I have a set of guidelines for hardwood edging that are part of the class I teach on sawing and have been given in SAWMILL&WOODLOT magazine.

For softwoods, very little wane is allowed as we need a nailing edge that is close to 100% continuous.  So, is it better to edge a 2x6 12' long to a 12' 2x4, or edge to a 2x6 that is trimmed to 10' to remove wane at the end?  If you do not know the answer, how can you make a good edging decision?  We need to know prices and markets...a 10' might be worth more, but if it cannot be sold, it is worthless.  You do not make money sawing your logs...you make money selling the lumber.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Dave Shepard

I tend to edge pretty hard, but the lumber was for use in house, so to speak. A waney board is much harder for us to use, and there is no point drying the lumber then ripping it down to make something usable.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Very true about re-ripping after drying.

Most hardwoods are ripped after drying as they are used in smaller pieces to make flooring, furniture, cabinets.  So, edging with some wane will actually give more useful wood to the customer than ripping the same piece when green to eliminate all wane.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Magicman

Since I am in the custom sawing business and not in the selling business, I edge to please the customer.  Depending upon the planned lumber usage, sometimes they are more or less stringent, but it has to be #2 or better or I am not satisfied.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

drobertson

cross threading here a little bit, but mm got me to thinking :o  ya I know, but on grading, does knotty pine used for siding have a grade?  Like MM, I don't like cutting knotty logs for 2X's sometimes this is what a custormer wants, even when their logs won't produce what I would consider a desirable 2X.  I have never studied soft wood grading, 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

Officially, I have no idea, but I do not consider knots in flat lumber as a defect, unless it is large enough to cause it to break.  On knotty logs, (usually the third log) I suggest flat lumber instead of framing lumber.


 
I sawed these two logs last week.  The log on the loader was clear and made 2X6's.  The second cut which is on the ground made 1X12's for wall paneling.  Some of the knots in the lumber were as large as 6", but that did not compromise it's use as wall paneling.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

drobertson

thanks mm, kinda how I run as well, do you have trouble starting the cut from the butt end?  I have in the past and now begin cuts from the small end.  Only draw back is the shorts are at the other end of the mill. Just wondering.  thanks, and hows' your wife feeling?
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

Thanks for asking.  She is much better and even sat in the deer stand with me yesterday.

On big logs such as that 35", I prefer to enter the butt end so I am assured of the blade guide clearing.  On all others, I prefer the butt on the back (far end) of the mill.  It's just easier and quicker for me to set the log up.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

drobertson

Ten four on the clearance factor!  Any success in the stand? now I have crossed threaded!
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

Check the Outdoor activities Board.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Okrafarmer

I tend to be a little too meticulous and OCD with my edging. I am standing there looking at the flitches, with all the same kinds of things you guys have been saying about it, all running through my head one after the other, as I agonize as to whether to take another inch or not. How silly of me! Do or do not do, there is to be no hesitation! Oh-- except to make sure the blade will clear the side supports and clamp.  ::)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Logosol Malte

Hello all,
It seems like this there is a lot of knowledge here on this topic. If you could give me some feedback on this I would be most thankful.  Logosol has developed a new twin blade edger soon to be released in US. To cut cost and design the most affordable twin blade edger on the market we decided to limit the maximum thickness to 1 ½ in (38 mm). Max with of work piece is unlimited. We found out that most edging is done with boards at that dimension or thinner than that. We also found out that you often get more out of your logs if you take out 1 – 1 ½ in from your log to make the block. What are your thoughts here? I know most of the competing twin blade edgers take 2". But they are twice as expensive. Would anyone of you be satisfied with a machine like that?  Please find out more on our UK website http://www.logosol.co.uk/all-products/board-edger-c210/. It will be available on our US website soon.

Okrafarmer

I'd be interested. Thicker boards are easier to edge on the mill than thin ones. How much would you expect the ballpark price to be?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

sawwood


We edge on the mill after we have all the log milled. We put the smaller one to the back and the taller ones
up front. then we start edgeing, working our way down. I am like MM we edge as to what the customer wants.

Lester
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

WoodenHead

As feedback for the Logosol rep, I have to say that I am fine with 1.5" if the machine is lower cost.  However, following the link I'm going to say that the machine shown there might not be so friendly to work with when flitches are 16' long and wide.  Larger in-feed and out-feed tables are needed.  Probably it is fine for some applications. 

If the price will be the equivalent to the 4900 pounds shown (about $8000), then Hud-son forestry equipment already has a product offering around that price. 

Personally I think Cooksaw makes a great edger.  I would love to buy one, but shipping is prohibitive to these parts of the continent and my wife doesn't think it worthwhile to travel 2600 miles round trip to get one :(

Okrafarmer

$8,000 is too much to be cheap enough to be any kind of advantage.  Woodmizer is currently offering their LT-10 sawmill at a base price of $3275 (on sale, previously $3875). I'm trying to find the price on their single blade edger, but it's eluding me on their website.

But you need to get down into that range (with a twin blade) to get me interested. $5,000 max, new. If Woodmizer and Hudson can each sell a sawmill for less than $4,000 somebody ought to be able to sell a twin blade edger for under $5,000. I would definitely accept a 1.5" limitation.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

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