Sawing Oak Shingles on Circular Mill ?

UNCLEBUCK · September 23, 2003, 08:29:42 PM

Has anyone ever done this. I seen pictures from old montgomery wards catalog showing their shingle making attachment for circular mill so I need feedback about this . I dont want to sit and split stumps with a froe . I guess I can saw the shingle tapered but why/why not ! all comments appreciated and any threads on the forum would be great so i will keep lookin at old threads, enjoy the fall weather ! thanks !

ARKANSAWYER · September 24, 2003, 05:39:10 AM

Most of the ole timers that claim to have been shingle sawyers are most often missing a few fingers. I have seen carrage dogs that piviot and let you cut shingles. But you have to be there to get the shingle and most often it is by hand. I have seen shingle saws and that is all they cut. Makes me nervous watching some one saw them.
I have a deal for my WM that I can saw shingles on and it works pretty good. I still have all 12 fingers. ;D
ARKANSAWYER

Bibbyman · September 24, 2003, 08:44:16 AM

I've seen a tour of a shingle factory on This Old House or New Yankee Workshop a while back.

The guys making the shingles set in a little cramped cube with a big circle saw blade (30-36"?) on their left only inches away from them - no shields. The bolts were fed to them from the left and behind. He'd push the bolt against the blade by hand on some kind of fixture - somewhat like slicing bologna. He'd grab the shingle with their other hand and the place it on a frame in front of them that had two pop-up saws that cut it to length. Then he'd grade the shingle and push it into one of three holes where it fell on the floor on the other side. Looked like he was only giving any attention to grading the shingle - he never looked at the blades as far as I could tell.

A guy squatting on the other side picked them up by hand and stacked them into bundles. I can't remember how many shingles a day was normal but it was a bunch.

The sawyers got the best pay and he got paid a bonus for producing over the quota amount. You had to be there 15 years to get a sawyer job.

The whole operation looked like a nightmare! Like some factory you'd see in China or something. I think it was just over the border in Canada in the north east.

D._Frederick · September 24, 2003, 09:18:30 AM

The mark-of the-trade for a shingle sawyer, few if any fingers left. In the time frame of the fifties and back there was NO thought of safety, the norm was wide belts running with no guards, saws with no shields, no safety shut offs. Not only did they loose fingers, but it was not un-common to read about an employee being killed in a shingle mill.

UNCLEBUCK · September 24, 2003, 09:54:56 AM

wowwy zowwy ! not a good job for a banjo picker,ouch ! well I value all your feedback about this and info. Now how about oak shingles without taper say like 1 inch thick 6" x 24" and use them that way. I seen one picture showing wood shingle with no taper so I could just saw 1" boards on the mill and then cut to length later so I keep my fingers away from blade, i have dug so much surfing the net about this and thought my forum pals will help ! all you guys taught me how to saw logs this spring and so far so good ,now teach me about making wood shingles,haha ! I guess I should lay some shingles out and see how it looks next ! thanks everybody ! :P

Fla._Deadheader · September 24, 2003, 10:35:48 AM

  How about " Rivin or Rilin" them shingles??? I've heard it pronounced both ways???
  They are Hand Split, with a froe.

  Actually, I don't see any reason a Taper attachment couldn't be fastened to a set of headblocks. That would get 6 shingles sawn at a clip???

Gus · September 24, 2003, 11:33:47 AM

My father-in-law had a shingle mill, a newer one.Unlike the mills of old it was farely safe; as safe as a mill can get. Lots of guards etc. It ran 3 phase and was a self contained unit. The blade was horizontal and he used a bolter mill to 3 side the logs then bucked them into 18" to 24" pieces. The pieces fit into a jig on the s/m above and to the outside of the blade, on a track sort of an affair.
He had my brother-in-laws running that thing in their early teens and they still have all their digits :D. They could cut piles of shingles or wedges in a day.

At the auction it brought a pile of money; $4000 I think.
Gus

Buzz-sawyer · September 24, 2003, 01:11:54 PM

Dont know ifn itll help but....I run a 56" blade and can cut shingles or sidding quite safely by simply using a cant of desired length conventionally...with the appropriate beveled shim behind it causing the cut to be beveled....so the tapper of the board being cut is determined by the shim behind the cant...and the length of the shingle by the height of the cant...you must slow down to remove the shim every other cut(or flip cant) but...it works out pretty well...for shingles of course you would need to bundle the cant lenght beveled boards and cut the to the width desired...its simpler and quiker than it sounds trying to describe it
Don

UNCLEBUCK · September 24, 2003, 06:52:53 PM

BuzzSaw ! that is what I wanted to hear ! thanks ! if one was to cut the shingles into 12" widthsafter sawing the cant up would the shingle cup to much from being cross grained . and last question is do you put the shim on the top or bottom of the headblock. I am going to try this in the next day and post a few pics how it went and wrap white tape around only 3 fingers just for effect. hey thanks everybody. I knew the forum would have my answer ! :P

Buzz-sawyer · September 25, 2003, 01:50:27 PM

Hey uncle
yea put the shim under the cant for what we are doin!
It calls for a little experimenting to get em just right them walaaa ...mass production

Buzz-sawyer · September 25, 2003, 02:22:36 PM

about the shingle cupping at 12" width...of course how we saw em has the most bearing

then species and even the particular tree we cut...so cut some see how ya like em....
Don

Buzz-sawyer · September 25, 2003, 02:39:35 PM

Uncle dont know if this will help but...it shows how we cut afffects the cupping...
Don

Jason_WI · September 25, 2003, 05:51:26 PM

There was a shingle mill not too far away from my dad's farm. In fact you can see it at the Thresheree in Valmy, WI always held in August.

The old timer that used to run it back in the day was called "nubs" cause that all that was left of his fingers.

Jason

UNCLEBUCK · September 25, 2003, 08:56:29 PM

wow thanks for the responses ! ok if i understand right the shim goes at the bottom between the cant and the knee so then i would slam the dogs down and that should hold the cant . i guess i am just unclear yet on exactly where to set the wedges ! under the cant or between the cant and the knee , i think i might try this pushing down on the cant hook which will roll the cant away from the knees at the top then placing the shim in that space towards the top then slamming the dogs down ! am going to do this saturday and then post the pics here . the shingle froe idea is good but i want alot of shingles and just have to try this ! thanks a million everybody !

UNCLEBUCK · September 25, 2003, 09:17:53 PM

ok I have drawn this out on paper and what i just said earlier is wrong ! it looks like I should back the knees away from the cant then reach over and set a shim in front of each knee at the bottom betwwen the cant and knee then pull the knees forward to snug up the cant then roll the top of the cant in towards the knees so they touch ,then slam the dogs down, this way the weight of the cant will ride good , so this is what I will try ! right? right? thanks again ! :P

UNCLEBUCK · September 25, 2003, 09:27:14 PM

ok now I am really screwing up ! the shims go under the cant , not behind ! or else from my paper drawings it looks like the way I just said again in the last 2 posts would leave everything depending on how good the dogs are slammed in, they are corley heavy duty dogs . wow i am diggin myself a hole here ! well the shims must be short like 3-1/2 " x 4 or 5"long . sure could use a picture or drawing of how this goes, I know once I see it the right way I will be off to the races !

Buzz-sawyer · September 26, 2003, 03:06:52 PM

Hey uncle
it is pretty simple what you want to do is square a cant to the size (lenth ) of your shingle...then put the shim under the cant and lower the dogs so it is all solid and sound then the face of the cant your are cutting will be at an angle so it will cut it thick at the bottom and really thin at the top....Ill try to make you a drwering of it!
Don

UNCLEBUCK · September 27, 2003, 09:44:16 PM

HI BUZZSAW ! hey I got it now ,thanks alot ok ! I be doin it first thing in the morning "sunday" .I guess I was just concerned about sawin through the beveled shims as the cant got smaller. but I will end up with many sets of shims and can save them when I need to saw shingles or siding. So again thanks to you and everyone who answered this thread. I am so glad I asked this question ! aint nobody gonna call me "nubs" haha ! :P

UNCLEBUCK · September 29, 2003, 09:58:30 PM

I ended up cutting posts all sunday so will saw shingles this next weekend and post the pics ! pickin corn all week !

UNCLEBUCK · October 05, 2003, 10:29:43 PM

well I tried this today and it scares me to death because i have never seen the results of a cant that has moved when in the blade so i went to sawin boards the regular way, its so simple i cant get it , i will beg now for a picture drawing of this from mr.buzzsaw ! oh please please help this rookie one more time ! :P

L. Wakefield · October 06, 2003, 06:04:25 AM

Quotepickin corn all week !

You too, huh? I picked some ears last night just before the frost. Some corn I planted late (LATE!) broke grund around 7/4, just getting very early ears now. Too late for them. DanG seed was bad 2x in a row and that was the 3rd planting for the same patch. I got to get seed from Johnny's selected seeds next year. The local feedstore is not doing right by me- not their fault- they don't test it, they just market it. It was supposed to be a variey of Burgundy which I have always loved- very pretty corn- but NG this year. I think I may go with a commercial variety next year just to see what I can do compared to the pros. lw

Buzz-sawyer · October 06, 2003, 09:12:27 PM

hey sounds ruff
did your cant come loose somehow ...did you have it doged dead solid before sawing? do you have power dogs or manual....please be careful friend

UNCLEBUCK · October 12, 2003, 06:57:10 PM

L.wakefield ! sorry for late response , I plant Bodacious sweet corn ,its about a 72 day maturity and never had a bad cob yet but i drowned it pretty good with herbicide when it is about ankle high and i get the seed from the local co-op, around 6 dollars a pound it goes for, i see the guerneys catalog lists bodacious in the pictures they have too, never tried johnnys yet ! and Buzzsawyer i will make better tapered shims ,i have manual corley dogs and i slammed them in but i backed out of the cut because the cant started to move , i must make all the shims exact and cut them in my old grizzly bandsaw because as simple as it sounds the big sawblade still scares me just a bit when something isnt exactly right but i will try again in a few days, then you can look at my pics and correct me ok, thanks again ! ;D

UNCLEBUCK · October 24, 2003, 05:36:06 PM

hello again, am wondering if anyone else tried this and also to Buzz sawyer or anyone that has had success with this could you please show us all some pictures up close showing the proper way and the degrees of angle and length of shims etc... thanks :P

junkyard · April 06, 2004, 03:47:46 PM

Uncle Buck
I worked for a guy building log cabins, we cut shingeles with a cain saw . Quarter sawn White Pine 26 inches long 1 5/8th's thick on one end 1/4 on other. Dipped in ccc. Saw some of them last week been on the roof 20 years still look good.
Junkyard