Price Per Board Foot?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Zygote? Is that the music they play in Nu-orlins? 

It's pronounced "NORLINS".  ;D

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum,    tkleff.   

Some of the answers to some of your questions will be tricky at best.  The simple math will not give you all of the answers.  There are things like where will the logs come from, log cost, log transport, storage of logs and storage of the lumber while it is drying.  Then comes things like permits and the use of non-graded framing lumber, which under most circumstances is not allowed.  Yes, in some locations and circumstances non-graded framing lumber is permissible, but even then it can be a slippery slope when dealing with insurance and financing.

[WDH]

Unless you already own the logs, you can't hardly compete with the Big Box Stores for softwood framing lumber.   $.30/BF is more of a wholesale price rather than a retail price.

[Delawhere Jack]

Zygote? Is that the music they play in Nu-orlins? 

It's pronounced "NORLINS".  ;D

Dats whad I sed.

[DouginUtah]

There are a lot of problems with what you would like to do. Like:

Who is going to grade your lumber?

How much softwood do you figure can be had around San Diego?

Your prices ($.30) are less than 50% of what you will find in reality.

And so on...

[paul case]

Zygote? Is that the music they play in Nu-orlins? 

It's pronounced "NORLINS".  ;D

Dats whad I sed.

I tot it was '' NAW lens''?

PC

[Bandmill Bandit]

I am not sure where you are finding your prices for lumber from the box stores but home depot 2x6 finger joint studs are $2.65 each or $335.00 ish MBF local and 2.85 each or $350.00MBF for #2 construction grade by the full lift. If you buy them by the Super B (about 32,MBF) you can get them a bit cheaper. even if you go to whole sale your numbers are maybe a wee bit low?

2x6x16 rough utility SPF are $9.95 to $12.95 a piece or 600 to 700 MBF. That is loacl to me but i think youd be hard pressed to find much more than a 20% variance. I may be wrong but I would be surprised.

Local whole sale on rough unstamped SPF 2x6,8x12,16 is at 425 to 525 MBF by Super B for construction grade. Utility and D grade is about 25% less.

SORRY decimal in the wrong place on the home depot prices when i calculated.   

[Okrafarmer]

The cheapest 8' 2X4's are about .50 / bf here in Home Depot, I think. They've gone up a little. All the studs and 2X's that are wider or longer are even more / bf.    And in southern California, I can't imagine it would be any less than that. But again, they are certified for building purposes, and they are all available quickly in one place, professionally dried and planed.

Welcome to the forum!

[Bogue Chitto]

Anyone ever sold the framing lumber to someone trying to frame a home or a large addition?  Just curious more than anything.  Really love the message board! 

craig.

Welcome,  I never sold my wood to someone framing a home, but I had a customer bring me trees that were downed by hurricane Katrina. He rebuilt his whole house.  2500 sq ft. home.  I charged $200 / 1000 bd ft.  Most of my wood I sell to customers are for barns, and fences. 

[grweldon]

It's pronounced "NORLINS".  ;D

Actually, it's "Nawlins"... ;D

[Cypressstump]

unless your from waaay up north and it becomes New Orleeeeeeeens

[tkleff]

Thanks for all the responses and welcomes.  Like I said I'm a neophyte (OK, I said Zygote, but that created some "interesting" responses). 

I hadn't considered the grading aspect of the framing lumber.  I really love the Hurricane Katrina story. 

I take it from the responses, the typical use of the lumber created from trees in this forum is for:  a) fences; b) barns; and c) ???  I suppose you could use it for furniture, right?  I'm not sure what trees are in San Diego. 

Honestly, I'm a bit more fascinated in the economics of it all.  You can't build without materials.  We spend $1,000s or $10,000s on tools.  How much do you imagine you spend in wood over a decade?  3 decades?  If you knew that you would spend $100,000 on wood for projects and stuff over the next 30 years, it would seem that a portable mill, at many different price ranges, would be a great deal.  But, it's hard to know one will actually do this for 30 years (and, even harder to figure how much wood one will consume/build). 

Here's a slightly different angle on the economics:  When I find a great deal at the grocery store, we buy lots of it.  Why?  Because, prices tend to rise, not fall -- and the notion that a penny saved is a penny earned is 100% true.  (And, I can break out some fancy books and talk you through the tax law to demonstrate how saving a few dollars now, has tremendous impact later -- impacts financially, mentally, life-wise, etc. etc. etc.)

[A quick story.  There was a talk show host years ago that I always enjoyed listening to.  He'd had a lifetime of experience, ran several businesses, made a few million dollars in business, and understood MONEY.  There was a particular model of Lincoln that he loved -- it worked well and survived his 40,000 mile/year commuting punishment.  So, like every great frugal person -- he bought a second one, put it on blocks, and broke it out after he put a few hundred thousand miles on his first car.]

So, if I were to find a California Sawyer that could get me a great price on wood -- let's say a seven year wood supply -- well, I'd give it really strong consideration.  Because, if I buy at (I'm making up the number) $1 per board foot today -- I can guarantee you in seven years it'll probably be $2 per board foot -- all else being equal (and assuming the wood does not crack, break, deteroriate, burn, get stolen, etc.). 

Anyhow -- I'm going back to reading some more of the forums.  thanks for all the kind words of welcome and otherwise.   

tkleff.

[Magicman]

Keep on reading.  At some point logs, lumber, or bananas for that matter will deteriorate.  You either use it or loose it.

[paul case]

tkleff,

I have sold framing lumber for barns, carports and fences, but the reason I bought a mill was that I wanted to build my own house.  I had a lot of trees on my place to use and the markets for them fell apart so I bought a mill and made all my own frame paneling and decking for my new house. Try these numbers.

Mill - $6500
Framing lumber for house would have cost $7200 at the big box store.
Plus I made all my own paneling which saved me another $3000 over the cheapest wood paneling I could buy.
Only put about 80 hours on the mill to cut out my house.
1 project sure justified my mill purchase. PC

[Okrafarmer]

Keep on reading.  At some point logs, lumber, or bananas for that matter will deteriorate.  You either use it or loose it.

Or both.

[WDH]

The price of lumber is cyclical, and is tied to the construction industry.  The price does not always increase over a 7 year period.  It could easily be lower, like it is now.  Lumber is an interesting commodity that supply and demand truly impacts because there is no governmental support network and there is no Lumber OPEC. 

[Okrafarmer]

The price of lumber is cyclical, and is tied to the construction industry.  The price does not always increase over a 7 year period.  It could easily be lower, like it is now.  Lumber is an interesting commodity that supply and demand truly impacts because there is no governmental support network and there is no Lumber OPEC.

If there were, it would be OLEC.

[Ianab]

I take it from the responses, the typical use of the lumber created from trees in this forum is for:  a) fences; b) barns; and c)   I suppose you could use it for furniture, right?  I'm not sure what trees are in San Diego. 

Mostly c) I would say...

I think over the years we have seen almost everything that could be build from wood made. Sure it includes fences and barns, but boats, furniture, musical instruments, coffins, even whole houses.

The thing is that framing timber is a mass produced commodity. Here in NZ it's plantation grown more like corn. Mechanically harvested, milled in big automated sawmills, dried, graded and shipped out. So that 30c bd/ft stud could have been shipped all the way from NZ or Chile, for that cost. It's real bottom end of the market stuff, and the wood is technically low grade. Appearance doesn't matter, and it's only got to be strong enough to pass through the grading machine.

So even if someone owns sawmill, they may buy framing timber, use it in the out of sight structure, avoid issue with lumber grades and building inspectors, and keep their better stuff for the visible parts. Hardwood floors, solid wood kitchens, furniture etc. Where there are no structural issues and wood grading issues, but where the use of real wood would be prohibitively expensive.

Want a dining table made from one solid piece of Walnut or Cypress? They can be bought, for multiple thousands of dollars. Got as big tree that's knocked down in a storm, or needs to come down? Spend $500 or $1000 getting it sawn on site, and you can build 10 tables from it.  It's those more unique pieces that have the value.

For construction it's things like large beams? You can't wander down to you local hardware store and buy a 16ft, 8 x 10 oak beam. You will probably need to get them custom sawn, and it's the guys with the smaller operations that are going to be flexible enough to do the job.

Wood as an investment? I don't think it will catch on. There would be much better uses for your shed space.

Ian

[MHineman]

If there were, it would be OLEC.

  Wouldn't that be LPEC?  (Lumber Producing Exporting Countries)

[Okrafarmer]

If there were, it would be OLEC.

  Wouldn't that be LPEC?  (Lumber Producing Exporting Countries)

OPEC stands for Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. So I substituted lumber for petroleum. More and more people are doing that, by the way. Just look at the thread for wood-gas powered vehicles.  ;D

[Magicman]

I have sawed framing lumber for 12-15 homes, plus several large horse barns, etc.  In each instance, the customer was a landowner and used his own logs.  Also, the architect specified #2 and/or rough sawed lumber which satisfied the lender/insurance/permit issues.  Even then, there are some counties/municipalities where their permitting system will not allow this.

Be very careful and ask the questions.  You do not want to spend funds and labor building something that you can not use and have to tear down.

[Dave Shepard]

I'm having a difficult time understanding how you guys that charge 25¢ or less can stay in business.        I've been at 35¢ bf for over 5 years now and have only had a few dispute my charges.   I didn't saw there logs.   ;D     My price is the same whether portable or stationary.   The only difference is when I'm portable my minimum charge is $350 ( up to 1000  bf) and the customer supplies helpers for moving logs and stacking lumber.   I never sticker and encourage them to sticker after I leave as it slows me down waiting on them to retrieve the next board.

Points to note:   I don't mill full time. I have a day job.  Milling is extra cash.  I've turned away 7 out of ten jobs I've been called on in the last 2 weeks and am still very busy.  My prices are not negotiable.  Just ask the guy the tried to convince me that I should charge less for 2x12's than 1x12 because it takes less sawing.  ;)   I don't know who milled his logs for him because it wasn't me.  ;D

Just tell him you were charging the 2x rate for the 1x, but you could up the price of the 1x if he'd like. :D

[Okrafarmer]

I charge hourly. I have never had a customer tell me I was too slow. Even though I am no doubt a good bit slower than some of you fellows with fancier mills.

[Migal]

I'm having a difficult time understanding how you guys that charge 25¢ or less can stay in business.        I've been at 35¢ bf for over 5 years now and have only had a few dispute my charges.   I didn't saw there logs.   ;D     My price is the same whether portable or stationary.   The only difference is when I'm portable my minimum charge is $350 ( up to 1000  bf) and the customer supplies helpers for moving logs and stacking lumber.   I never sticker and encourage them to sticker after I leave as it slows me down waiting on them to retrieve the next board.

Points to note:   I don't mill full time. I have a day job.  Milling is extra cash.  I've turned away 7 out of ten jobs I've been called on in the last 2 weeks and am still very busy.  My prices are not negotiable.  Just ask the guy the tried to convince me that I should charge less for 2x12's than 1x12 because it takes less sawing.  ;)   I don't know who milled his logs for him because it wasn't me.  ;D

Just tell him you were charging the 2x rate for the 1x, but you could up the price of the 1x if he'd like. :D

:D Im with you but I might be a bit Higher though  8) but heck this is Texas everything is bigger even price's

[mikeb1079]

i think the main obstacle in your way is that it may be difficult or impossible to build with ungraded lumber.  (if you are planning to do it above board  ;) )  i think alot of folks can get by out in the sticks but it may be a different ballgame in the city.  you could always call building inspection in san diego...