Working in cold weather – the human factor.

Bibbyman · January 31, 2007, 10:15:32 AM

How do you crazy guys up north stand this cold weather? Better yet, why would you put up with it?

We've been lucky that the last couple of winters have been mild. This winter hit us pretty hard around the first of December with 15+" of snow. Now we've had ice covered with snow and more ice for most of January. Plus the cold just ain't going away. Usually when we get a cold snap it only lasts a few days and then we get a few days of tolerable weather. Not this month and no warmth in the near forecast.

I know you guys have adapted to the cold climate – both in body and methods of work. But I find it most difficult to deal with.

I have cold weather cloths but that only complicates the problems. First, if you dress heavy enough to stand the cold, then you're too hot when you work or step out of the environment for any length of time. Second, I find it difficult to work in heavy cloths. They weigh me down more than my natural weight does already and they restrict my movement more than my old creaky bones do already. Third, I need to take heed to when my body needs service and start at it sooner. I've had a number of close calls when I've put it off and then had to fumble getting gloves off, etc., etc., etc.

Lastly, I've noted that my ability to concentrate and make decisions are diminished as the temperature goes down. :

Yesterday it was 17° with a 25mph wind making the wind-chill down to about 0°. I had three lug bolts to replace on the AGCO and I thought I could manage that and get some idea if I could get other outdoor work done. I'm sure it took at least twice as long as it should have and by the time I was done I was froze in some places and sweating in others. The cold wind just took the air right out of me. I was done.

sawguy21 · January 31, 2007, 10:34:57 AM

:D We are used to it but that does not mean we have to like it. The secret is to dress in light layers which can be shed as you warm up rather than in one big heavy coat. Your body heat will warm the air trapped between them. There was a thread on boots which had some excellent suggestions and wear loose fitting gloves and a hat, we wear toques pulled down over the ears for a reason.
Time yourself and try to avoid working outside for long periods, allow breaks to warm up. If you feel too cold and start shaking, shut 'er down and get inside, that is the start of hypothermia.

BBTom · January 31, 2007, 11:03:20 AM

I have had some problems this year due to the weather. It has gone from hot to cold with no in betweens. I find it is all a matter of getting used to it. get out for a couple hours each day until you find that it doesn't bother you anymore.

DanG · January 31, 2007, 11:11:49 AM

We don't often get those extreme conditions down here, but when we do, I just stay inside. Like you, Bibby, I can usually just delay things for a day or two. I've been spending more time in the shop lately, due to chilly temps and wind. It gets pretty uncomfortable after a while, especially for my hands. I keep a cheap hand-held hair dryer on the bench and warm my hands with it every now and then. You can also stick it up your jacket for a minute for a quick warm-up. It sure takes a lot of the misery out of it.

Sprucegum · January 31, 2007, 11:42:16 AM

Lots o' folks try to deny it but the plain truth is , we don't do near as much work in the cold as we do when its warm. With experience you learn to dress so you have the least amount of bulk for the most amount of protection which will get you up to 3/4 of your prime capability. Your efficiency still drops in direct proportion to the temperature. And there comes a point where you drop everything and say
"I'm goin' in the house"

Thats why fireplaces and hot toddys were invented.

Gary_C · January 31, 2007, 11:56:48 AM

Probably the most honest answer is that we do not tolerate it any better than you. And the older you get, the harder it is to handle.

Sure we are better prepared with equipment and some heated shops, plus your body actually does get accustomed to the cold. For example, I got a little frostbite in my fingers many years ago. Since then, when it first gets cold in the fall, my fingers get absolutely stiff and almost useless. As I become used to working in the cold, I do not have any problems like those first few times.

Just recently, on a very cold windy day, I was driving back to the landing with my forwarder and the DNR forester was waiting for me. As I got out to talk to him he said this was sure not like the old winter days of logging with just a chainsaw and heavy parkas. He said that I was sitting in that cab with my hooded sweatshirt unzipped and not even any gloves on. I replied "it's not as easy as you think, it gets too hot in that cab." :D

Oh and another thing, that forwarder has a diesel fired heater that can be set to start automatically an hour before I arrive in the woods. When I get there, the cab is warm, the engine water jacket is warm, and the hydraulic reservoir is warm. All I have to do is start the engine and work the controls till the cold oil in the lines has been replaced by warm oil from the tank. Greatest thing made. 8)

One other thing to remember. I spent four years living in Pennsylvanna, north of Philly, and people would ask the same question, "how do you people from the north (Minnesota) stand those below zero temperatures?" My reply would be that I had never been as cold as it was right there when the temperature was about 38F with the wind blowing. That cold will go thru any clothes that you can put on.

Stephen1 · January 31, 2007, 12:05:56 PM

When you are outside as sawguy says lots of layers. I do not wear any cotton clothes next to my skin only polypropolene or polar fleece. these items do not absorb your sweat so they stay dry next to your body. #1 thing in the land of the cold, dry- dry and more dry clothes next to the body. I will change my socks 2-3 times a day if I am out in the cold all day. I usually wear either insulated coveralls for the really cold, like -15c or below and regular coveralls for above that. The more you are out in it the easier it becomes.

beenthere · January 31, 2007, 12:28:33 PM

Yah, like Gary_C said (just don't lock the truck with da keys inside along with all the warm clothes and gloves and things-like da keys :

).

For working outside in the cold, I choose silk underwear and wool shirts, wool jacket. The natural fibers can't be beat, IMO. Poly underwear is close, but I've found silk to be much better and more comfortable. But keeping active while out in the cold, is important too. Circulating the blood to the toes, ears, and feet help a great deal.

The small packets of 'heat' are great too. When I sweat (I do that easily even when below zero F), often the back of my neck gets chilled which seems to then affect the rest of me. I open one of the heat packets, and tuck it in under the collar on the back of my neck, and feel that heat all over.

Keeping warm on a deer stand all day (6 am - 4 pm) used to make me creative, especially when the high was still below zero. A few pieces of charcoal kept burning on the ground between my feet was my life saver at the time. I've changed my hunting tactics considerably since those days. Also, thanks to temporary global warming, winters have not been that cold around here.

Bro. Noble · January 31, 2007, 01:46:45 PM

Quote from: Gary_C on January 31, 2007, 11:56:48 AM
Probably the most honest answer is that we do not tolerate it any better than you. And the older you get, the harder it is to handle.

:D :D :D Our church has a large number of retired people. In the winter we gain several seasonal members from Michigan and Wisconsin, and Minnisota-------but we lose some of the local members who winter in Florida and Arizona :D :D :D

stumpy · January 31, 2007, 03:03:42 PM

Well, I have a different answer. I love it. I'm 54 and I've lived here my whole life. I"ll take 20 degrees sunny no wind over 80 degrees any day. Below 20 I still like it, but the equipment doesn't. I usualy wear some sort of high tech material undershirt(preferably turtleneck) and a sweatshirt over that. Then a fleece vest and maybe a light jacket, but I don't like much on the arms cause it gets hard to move.. For the bottom I wear a pair of jeans (I hate longjohns) and below 30, a pair of Carhart insulated bibs. Above 30, regular unlined bibs.

Probably more info than you wanted. I read somewhere that people who live in a 4 season climate are physicaly and mentaly healthier than those that live in a one season climate. My wife totaly disagrees and would move down south in a heartbeat. I believe I am just plain lucky that the cold doesn't bother me that much.

Paul_H · January 31, 2007, 03:26:38 PM

:D Stumpy,it's a good thing cold doesn't bother you in WI.It reminded me of this story.

Baby polar bear goes to daddy polar bear and asks "Dad, what kind of bears are we?"

Dad says "We're polar bears, son."

The next night, baby polar bear goes up to mama polar bear and asks "Mom, what kind of bears are we?"

Mom replies "we're polar bears."

The night after that, baby polar bear goes to daddy polar bear and asks "Dad? Are you sure we're polar bears?"

Dad says "Yes son, we're polar bears."

Baby polar bear asks "are we pure-bred polar bears?"

Getting irritated now, dad says "Of course we're pure-bred polar bears. Why do you keep asking?"

Baby polar bear says "Because I'm $@&*^ freezing! That's why!"

Dress warm!

beenthere · January 31, 2007, 03:54:38 PM

Paul
We spos' ta be gessin what you are doin ta that tank? Maybe its the one ya jus found at the junk yard, and is 22". ??? :

Murf · January 31, 2007, 05:02:58 PM

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 31, 2007, 10:15:32 AM
How do you crazy guys up north stand this cold weather?

I know you guys have adapted to the cold climate – both in body and methods of work.

But I find it most difficult to deal with.

Bibbs, I gots lotsa stuff I can pile on, layers upon layers ole son, man-made stuff, natural stuff, furs from pret'near every type a beast dat walked this country, and few from beyond by a fair piece. Dat keeps me pret'near warm on most days I venture out.

But .......... :

There's only so much I can peel off when it gets ta powerful warm 'afore I'm arrested or run outta town wit peoples laff'in at me. :-[

In the greater scheme of things, I'll take the cold. ;)

It's kinda like Tom payin in peas fer sawin' and tail'n fer him. I'm not fussy on peas much, but I'd take 'em over da baloney samiches....... :D :D :D

Bibbyman · January 31, 2007, 05:04:20 PM

I worked with a Swede from Minnesota. I don't think I ever seen him with a coat in the winter. Most of the winter you'd see him in a short sleeve shirt. He got transferred to Bismarck, North Dakota. I think he even wanted to go! :-\

I just got in from sawing. I've been out more than four hours. 21° with 11mph wind and snow flurries feels like 10°. I'm a little chilled all over and my face is numb and my mustache is cold and drippy. I got some work done but it wasn't fun. :(

Murf · January 31, 2007, 05:14:20 PM

Quote from: Bibbyman on January 31, 2007, 05:04:20 PM
I worked with a Swede from Minnesota. I don't think I ever seen him with a coat in the winter. Most of the winter you'd see him in a short sleeve shirt.

I'm not that bad, but close, 'specially in warm weather like that, 21° ?? Lucky sod. ;D

In the summer time I fly those whacko skydivers at our airport sometimes, at altitude it's often in the low 50's and there's no door on the plane, so you have a 100 mph windchill as well, but not directly on you.

I think it's kinda nice. Refreshing even, shorts and t-shirt weather. ;D

Yup, they think I'm kinda nuts too, it's not just you.

:D :D :D

Aroostooksawyer · January 31, 2007, 05:30:21 PM

We moved to Northern Maine for the cold and snow from NJ.You can always get warm fire,more cloths,physical activity.But if it is 80 degrees outside how do you get cool if working in the woods.Anyway 21 below last night and single digits during the day.Working in the woods layered clothing is the way to go.If finger tips get cold I warm them up on the rayco diesel exaust take glove off fill glove with exaust a short time put back on toasty warm .One of my favorite books is "Paradise Below Zero"Sorry to ramble just love the cold.Oh no bugs in the cold also.

sprucebunny · January 31, 2007, 08:06:30 PM

NO BUGS 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I love the cold ;D

The other thing I like about cooler weather is, when you have more clothes on, you have more padding for wrestling with trees and other lumber. Fewer bruises.

thecfarm · January 31, 2007, 08:35:48 PM

I usally don't work out when it starts to get down towards the single digits.I don't have to do it,so why do it.But heated handles on my husky keeps mine hands nice and warm.We like the cold here.It keeps the population down.More trees to cut,less pavement.I dress in layers.I do not work in a coat,I wear a tee shirt,long john top,fannel shirt and 2 big sweat shirts.Long john bottoms and so called wool pants.If this don't keep me warm,I go in.I have been wearing a face mask for the last week when I do the morning and evening chores.Been in the single digits and below.I don't like that at all.If you ever come to Maine look me up and you will see why I put up with the cold.I love it here.

Sprucegum · February 01, 2007, 02:17:20 AM

The only thing ya gotta do is keep yer blood circulatin' and that's easy - pick a fight with the next feller that walks by :D :D

As kids we did it all winter long, with big mitts and big parkas no harm done. Body blows only - a bloody nose is no fun when it freezes to yer face

Bibbyman · February 01, 2007, 03:14:58 AM

Quote from: Sprucegum on February 01, 2007, 02:17:20 AM
The only thing ya gotta do is keep yer blood circulatin' and that's easy - pick a fight with the next feller that walks by :D :D

As kids we did it all winter long, with big mitts and big parkas no harm done. Body blows only - a bloody nose is no fun when it freezes to yer face

Hey! I don't need to pick a fight with the next feller - it's Mary! But we usually only exchange verbal abuse. :D (we did get into a butt kicking contest one time where we locked arms at the elbow and danced around in a circle a couple of times exchanging "POOMPHS". :D )

That is one problem... When we're sawing, I'm running the mill and Mary's offbearing. My face will be freezing and I'll be cold to the bone and she'll be shucking her Carhartt insulated bibs and heavy coat. I've been doing most of the sawing alone in cold weather so I could break up the standing at the mill controles and move some.

Larry · February 01, 2007, 06:54:54 AM

You might want to investigate a parabolic infrared heater since your mostly stationary. Our farm store sells em for bout $50 if my memory is correct.

Minnesota_boy · February 01, 2007, 08:35:54 AM

While you're standing out in the cold wind a lot of your body heat is lost through your natural radiators, where the blood flow close to the skin surface. The neck and ears are superb for radiating heat. If it's cold, cover them. A balaclava works well for that. Put on a cap with ear flaps too to keep the sun out of your eyes and reduce the radiation. Gloves with long cuffs keep the wind from another area where the blood flows close to the skin surface, your wrists. If it's real bad, I put on ski goggles to keep the wind out of my eyes (I tell people that it's to keep the sawdust out of my eyes and they believe me).

Frickman · February 01, 2007, 08:24:41 PM

If it's above 10 degrees, I go to work. Below 10, I think about, mostly because the equipment doesn't like it. Last week we had some days of 15 degree dry cold with little wind that felt warmer than 40 and wind and rain. In a former life we milked cows twice a day, no matter what. There were a few times that we milked at 20 below. Now that was getting chilly.

I think that you get acclimated to the cold over time. I spent some time in southern Alabama one summer and it was HOT. 100 degrees and high humidity about killed this northern boy.

leweee · February 01, 2007, 09:25:32 PM

Ditto what Frickman said.

Bill · February 02, 2007, 01:23:36 AM

The older I get the colder I get - till I get good and moving.

Now I'm still kinda working the kinks out but usually have a plan. First off - no cotton. It holds moisture next to ones skin which really cools you so use wool or synthetics ( or silk ). Second - don't sweat. Evaporation draws the heat outta ya faster then anything. So I strip off layers before I get hot enough to sweat. Next - watch the wind. It'll carry off heat faster then you can make it. Either work behind a shelter or find an outer layer that keeps the wind out. I'm especially sensitive to wind burn ( mild frostbite ? ) on my face when the wind chill really kicks in if I'm not careful. Since I wear glasses its hard not to fog 'em if I wear some kinda face mask but if it gets really cold I gotta protect my face. My feet also perspire no matter how cold it gets ( go figure - I can't ) so I too need to be changing to dry socks during the day ( see rule #2 ) so my feet don't freeze. A really good pair of gloves ( or two ) rounds things out. Last rule would be to make sure nothing fits too tight - it keeps out the blood flow needed to keep warm.

All that being said I still enjoy using a "monster maul" to be splitting wood outside in single digits ( no wind tho ) in a t-shirt and watching the steam rising off me - leastways till my back says that's enough - you ain't a kid anymore >:(

Oh and I hate bugs . . .