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Author Topic: European logging anyone?  (Read 12179 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 10:58:01 PM »
The flip side is thats a lotta iron to maintain.
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Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 10:58:59 PM »
Also a lot of "do it all machines" will surely do it all, but they only do everything 1/2 as good as a single purpose dedicated machine will do it.

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 11:15:30 PM »
Never seen one in person so have to ask - can you load with a swing grapple?
They aren't meant for loading, but a guy that's good with one can keep from skinning up trees in a thin or deck a nice pile they're popular out here on the 517, 527, D5H, & D4H had some as well. The skidders that had then normally didn't as long a lot of them got flipped with the rocking motion of the swinger.

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 11:35:43 PM »
    wow ! thanks for the responses... maybe JD and Cat will get the hint....there is a market for single guy logging outfits and Tigercat is apparently the only one on it available in America. I will be looking into those but for now im thinking the price point will probably be astronomical.
     I have 2 years more or less before the kids are both in school and i can go to work for real again. so we'll see how these next 2 summers go. ive been going through what it would take to build one of these and i may very well just buy a crane and mount it on my skidder and give it a try. I doubt the robustness of those little farmi loaders but it would be a good trial run.i dont know where to buy one or have any idea on the costs. next year at the logging expo i will definitely be looking in earnest for some real options. it mainly would be for decking logs (you  know, minus all the "pile humping")  ive been known to stand the skidder pretty much straight up on the arch building piles in small landings but i bet i could triple the amount if the logs were turned 90* and stacked up. i also use a single, owner operator to truck for me and he likes to plan the best routes for effiency which sometimes will back me up. im currently running two machines at different lots and if i put on a third i could let him bounce around and cherry pick his loads to make the best of his fuel mileage and daylight.
   Yeah, the standard transmission isnt ideal and youd just have to kneel on the seat to run the loader but so what? hell, im using my backhoe with a thumb to pile up logs driving around with my feet going forward running the wheels and my torso facing the back running the loader bouncing around. anything would be an upgrade!!!
ultimately a 5 ton excavator cab /swing house with a knuckle boom mounted to a skidder chassis would be the best if i could really have my cake and eat it too....preferabaly under 200k with a 20k+ hr life expectancy weighing around 20-25k lbs, dual remote winches, only consume 1.5 gal of fuel an hour max and 8.5- 9 ft wide :) you gotta dream anyway. oh, and i needs to exist on this continent.

I'd bet that little Tigercat with all those goodies would cost half a million. Deere and cat got out of that market because how many little skidders do you really think get sold a year? How many one man operations can afford to buy a new skidder or heck a low hour used skidder for that matter plus there's getting to be places in the country where they're not allowed to run them. There's a deal out of Canada that sounds just like the ticket for you

Offline pinefeller

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 06:35:43 PM »
what is the deal out of canada? is lopet selling his? (i do remember him saying "let someone else import one then buy it from them'' in his thread)  ;D

and as far as what do you do when your jack of all machines breaks? ....buy 2 duh.... :D or just break out the old treefarmer--- ; (this is why i have multiple jobs i bounce around on anyway) i'll never be to proud to pull a cable. the concept is simple as dirt and well proven. im all for safety and operator comfort though. 

ok then farmi,palfinger, and others how about a retrofit kit for us guys with paid off old skidders? crane and dual remote winch thats a payment i could probably and would swing. no pun intended
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

Offline pinefeller

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2018, 07:06:13 PM »
Quote
I'd bet that little Tigercat with all those goodies would cost half a million. Deere and cat got out of that market because how many little skidders do you really think get sold a year? How many one man operations can afford to buy a new skidder or heck a low hour used skidder for that matter plus there's getting to be places in the country where they're not allowed to run them. There's a deal out of Canada that sounds just like the ticket for you


call me crazy but there is going to be a big turnover in the logging industry in my life time the median age is probably 55 in logging companies around here and up and coming guys arnt going to start with 3 new 748s,a slasher, a shiney new chipper, hot saw, trucking company ect. you start with a small skidder. nope not a big market maybe not even a money maker..... ever heard of brand loyalty though? who is going to make the next 540b or ...230 'jack, c5d? these antiques wont be around forever... ok they might... but you practically have to wait for some old dude to tip over and pry it out of his cold dead fingers to get one. with all the advancements in technology and manufacturing your telling me no one can produce a simple,,no frills machine. (and preferably a little dangerous to weed out the common sense impaired.)<--- yup hope that dont bite me in the butt lol
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

Offline lopet

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2018, 07:19:43 PM »
Not disagreeing with Maine372 and Chevy, it's not the perfect solution, because you have to compromise here and compromise there.  I kinda put it this way, it's like a Swiss army knife, which isn't meant to gut a deer either, but doable.

The perfect solution for me would be also two skidders, one just for winching the heavy stuff and a crane skidder for all the tops and the small diameter stuff.

And pinefeller, sorry it's not for sale, I am pushing 60 years and I deserve it, had to wait long enough.  ;D :D
Same with my shop, had to wait until I was 51.  So keep on working. :)

If I was your age and start all over again, I really would be looking at hydrostatic drive. Was never a big fan of them because of the lack of torque, but man they came a long ways. Seen it on a mid size payloader which had only a big hydraulic motor on both diffs. Downside is you will be dealing with a lot more complicated hydraulic system.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline lopet

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2018, 07:26:30 PM »
... but you practically have to wait for some old dude to tip over and pry it out of his cold dead fingers to get one.

 :D :D :D     All I can do is wish you luck.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline pinefeller

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2018, 07:49:13 PM »
 :D :D :D :D :D the first skidder i ever ran was a 518 and i fell in love, torque converter but close enough. i am aware of the benefits and smoothness. i started mechanical and have been going backwards ever since. at least my machine is paid for now and in good condition. hopefully i will be going forward in technology from now on because im not a horse person  :D :D

i will keep workin dont you worry...  ;)

...a swiss army knife with a loader... ;D
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

Offline teakwood

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 08:45:41 PM »
what is the deal out of canada? is lopet selling his? (i do remember him saying "let someone else import one then buy it from them'' in his thread)  ;D

and as far as what do you do when your jack of all machines breaks? ....buy 2 duh.... :D or just break out the old treefarmer--- ; (this is why i have multiple jobs i bounce around on anyway) i'll never be to proud to pull a cable. the concept is simple as dirt and well proven. im all for safety and operator comfort though. 

ok then farmi,palfinger, and others how about a retrofit kit for us guys with paid off old skidders? crane and dual remote winch thats a payment i could probably and would swing. no pun intended


Good thinking. But i think that my old 540A would't have nearly enough gpm oilflow to operate a crane, at least not faster than snail's pace :D
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2018, 09:10:01 PM »
It's not the technology to build a small skidder, it's the cost to do so. Tier 4 adds what, $10K to $15K to a full size machine these days? Even those neat mini skidders from Quebec are $100K, that's a $2,400 / month payment there. Not sure how many little guys can make that work.
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Offline pinefeller

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2018, 09:26:04 PM »
---how about glider kits like the big trucks (basically a rolling chassis you supply the engine and trans)

--add a tandem pump to the 540. if they can run a crane off a 10hp honda i bet your deere could run it.
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

Offline lopet

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2018, 10:26:10 PM »
30K gets you a decent six wheeled forwarder, toss the crib, shorten the frame and mount a winch and/or a clamp.
Just sayn..... there is another idea.  I might even do that hahah.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Online Skeans1

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2018, 12:10:53 AM »
Awassos they build a skidder too

Offline mike_belben

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2018, 12:21:25 AM »
It's not the technology to build a small skidder, it's the cost to do so. Tier 4 adds what, $10K to $15K to a full size machine these days? Even those neat mini skidders from Quebec are $100K, that's a $2,400 / month payment there. Not sure how many little guys can make that work.

So tier 4 is finally working as planned then? ...  At breaking the little guys back.
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Offline teakwood

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2018, 06:28:07 AM »
30K gets you a decent six wheeled forwarder, toss the crib, shorten the frame and mount a winch and/or a clamp.
Just sayn..... there is another idea.  I might even do that hahah.

That's a excellent idea! Really 30K? how many hours?

Build me one ;D
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Offline lopet

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2018, 07:55:23 PM »
Okay maybe I was a little low on that number. I thought I ve seen some older Valmets or Rottnes on Richards Carlson site or the used logging equipment site in that price range. Well that was a few years ago, obviously that market has changed too, or those deals are history.
Then you have to make all this changes and put another 20k or more in it. Maybe it's not such a good idea, just a though. :) 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2018, 09:06:24 PM »
Rather than building small skidders again for a limited market. Perhaps John deere should bring over a few Kotschenreuthers or similar forestry tractors.
If the JD engineers work out the changes that are needed, maybe  find the right North American engineering shop to put the new machines together  as required. The new machines will eventually work their way down the affordability chain as older machines.
260 horsepower might almost be enough for small pulpwood thinnings.

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Offline Brian_Rhoad

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2018, 09:58:37 PM »
John Deere makes or did make forestry tractors in Europe. There are other brands that have factory made forestry tractors. They just don't have them in North America.

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Re: European logging anyone?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2018, 11:12:16 PM »
Wonder if some of the reasons they won't bring them to the states is our safety requirements to meet all states.


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