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Mono Rail saws vs. 4 Posters ?

Started by wannabeonetoo, November 09, 2007, 11:02:17 AM

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wannabeonetoo

I was hoping some light could be shed on the pros and cons of these two types of mills ?Is there anyone out there who has owned both and what are your thoughts ?
I fear I may be buying into a companys sales pitch without asking the widest possible audiance for some (hopefully not too biased) info.
There is a company here called "Clarke" who seem to make a good product (4 poster).I've talked to WM owners and they rave about their mills (rightfully so, they're very well made),the other guys say you're paying for the "orange paint" and "family experience".

I'm not trying to start a war of words here just put together some more info. to help the decision making process.

Thanks,
           Steve

ronwood

Steve,

Each type of mill has it pros and cons.  How well any of them cut has to do alot with the sawyer running the mill. Sharp blades and maintenance are keys. Not trying to push the mill above its capability is also key.  Customer service was one of the things that I looked  at very closely.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Jeff

Bottom line is to listen to the things a company has to say about their own equipment and disregard anything they say about the competition. Anything said about the competition  does nothing to improve their product other then in you mind by diminishing what they are tryng to compare to. let the oroduct standon its own merits and let you and your peers be the judge, not the salesmans pitch.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

wannabeonetoo
You have nothing to fear from either the mono or the 4 post...and you can spend some quality time reading this forum archives (do a search) to learn that you don't need to fear either.
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south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

flip

Buy one of each!  They all do the same, take log to board.  Color is really the only difference.  You can't go wrong with any of our sponsors.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Bibbyman

Welcome to the Forum 1ab12.   8)

If you've lurked around here for some time you know where my colors run true orange when it comes to band mills. 

You'll read a lot about how WM are easy and quick to set up without a lot of fuss about leveling.  And how the open side lets you load and saw odd shaped logs easier.  And on and on.

I've never sawn on a four poster.  I've seen them make perfectly good lumber and their owners are happy with them.

When I was in the same stage of looking for a mill I came down to a four poster model and WM.  I was unable to put a value on the cantilever head and monorail design.  Pound for pound and feature for feature WM was not the lowest price.  So I started talking to owners.  The owners of the WM mills were still very excited about their mills and all had plans to someday move up to the bigger models with more features. 

They also were very impressed with the support and service they got from WM.  I didn't get that feeling from the "other guy".  The rest is history.  We've upgraded two times and have sawn over 2,000,000 bf. on our WM mills. 

I suggest you call both companies and ask for contact information of mill owners in your area with mills similar to what you've got on your short list and go and visit with.

Another way would be to attend forestry or large farm shows where the mills are demoed.  You'll likely also run into owners there. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

TexasTimbers

wannabe,

I have owned both. A Norwood LM2000 and now a LT40 Super. It's probably not fair to compare the two because the LT40 is so much more machine, but just sticking to your question in comparing the two, the monorail is so much better IMHO for numerous reasons, all of which can be found in the archive.

What Jeff said about ignoring what companies say about other companies is good advice. All of the major mill manufacturers make quality mills.

Don't let the myth that the monorail will "wobble" disctract you. It is a proven system and I don't see how it can even be argued with the Woodmizer track record. If you decide to go with a 4 poster then look at customer service and for sure don't buy one without checking them out in person and get a demo if you can.

If you decide to go with the monorail don't worry about it you can't go wrong.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Tom

I've owned and used both.  First, there is a concern that 4 poster salesmen might speak against "monorail"/cantilever band mills since only woodmizer sells a cantilever bandmill.   That should say worlds about competition and why there might be a concern.

The only "monorails" I know of are Woodmizer, Mobile Dimension and Mighty Mite.   The last two are circle mills and all have a good reputation.

Four Post mills, when set up properly, are steady and withstand a lot of abuse.  The many companies who build them mostly are successful and don't want you to have a bad experience.

Speaking of bandmills, both styles drive the same blade at the same speeds with comparable horsepower.  So, beyond relativity of the log to the mill frame, both are identical.   It's the blade that does the cutting and both styles suffer the same symptoms of incorrect setup and blade sharpness.

Each manufacturer's pride mostly comes from their mills ability to handle logs.  It's the log handling that causes production to increase, one mill over the other.  Be concerned about hydraulic loading, turning, leveling and the horsepower to accomplish it.  Look at ease of setup, stability, ease of maintenance, towing efforts like size of truck and commercial licenses.  Question the cost of maintenance parts and their Mean times to failure.  Look at the upgrade path within the company as well as the company's reputation for customer support.  Compare apples to apples by knowing what size logs you will be handling and what kind of timber or boards you will be producing.

If you don't like the salesman, stop right there. 

woodbeard

One of the main advantages of the monorail type is that it has an open end, so logs larger than the recommended size can be sawn if necessary, with a little creativity.
An advantage of the 4 post is that you have a good excuse not to saw logs like that. :D
You likely wont run into many like that anyway, most 4 post mills still handle 30"-36" logs, and that is a lot of log.

Dave Shepard

Welcome to the forum, wannabeonetoo! I think ronwood has hit upon a key element in any sawmill, the operator is as responsible for the outcome as much as anyone, and customer service is key.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

customsawyer

I have learned the hard way that one of the things I look at in buying a machine is the resale value when I decide to upgrade as I always do. My tractors are JD because you can always sell that green paint, my back-hoe is a Cat, and my sawmill is WM. All tractors can do most jobs, most back-hoes have about the same functions and most mill will make good lumber.
Just my 2 cents.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Brucer

I wouldn't get too hung up on the cantilever vs. 4-poster issue. I've seen high quality timbers and lumber off both types -- and I've seen trashy stuff off both types as well (weren't nothing to do with the mills -- look 2 feet behind the control panel).

One thing to consider is keeping your mill running. Can you get spares in a hurry? How's the customer service?

As an example, today I ran into a problem I'd never encountered before -- and it wasn't discussed in the manual. So I called the local sales office. Their tech guys hadn't encountered it either. They took my number and said they'd call right back. 20 minutes later I got a call from a tech guy at the head office. They hadn't encountered the problem, but gave my advice on how to deal with it. In short, less than half an hour of downtime.

Meanwhile, I started into my 900 hour service and discovered a belt was starting to unravel. 'Nother quick phone call and a new belt will be at the bus depot tomorrow morning.

That's the kind of stuff to look into. Ask about specific parts, like belts, bearings, and motor brushes. If they say you can get 90% of your parts at a local industrial supplier, ask them about the other 10%. Or ask them which parts most frequenly need replacing, and then ask how long it will take to get to you.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

oldsaw

You've spent too much time on the issue just typing the subject title.  There are a lot of good mills out there, and that is far down on my list of things that are important.  Support, build quality, and reliability are everything.  All the major brand mills cut wood well.  When the time comes, I'll be looking for a WM or a TimberKing.  TimberKing is not only high quality, but is local, so parts are easy.  WM isn't as local, but is only a day or two away UPS, and also have a great reputation for quality and customer service.  Not saying I wouldn't buy another brand, but you see where my priorities lie.

Mark
So many trees, so little money, even less time.

Stihl 066, Husky 262, Husky 350 (warmed over), Homelite Super XL, Homelite 150A

cantcutter

In my opinion the only things you need to consider is, price, dependability, and re-sale value. In the price and dependability part there are alot of companies who have WM beat. But WM is on top in the re-sale value dept.

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