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Whats going on with Woodmizer?

Started by Cypress Man, July 08, 2014, 09:14:01 PM

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JimFX

I have been following this thread with some interest. Some posts make you think, others advocate having patience that things will work out, and still others assume the worst .... and you know, they are all correct!.
This is social media and everyone gets a say.

What is important here is what the response is!
No matter what the topic, given time, there will be a negative post, it's just a statistical fact.
So knowing this will happen, it is so important for business that they handle it quickly because it's always advertisement for the company, good or bad.

If the skateboarding dog can get millions of hits, someone better be paying attention.
If you are using social media to sell your product, use social media to sell you product.


Paul_H

Ah yes,but how many here would enjoy a thread like this about them and their business? If a complaint was issued from an unhappy customer and speculators and revilers piled on opinions from the wings,would anybody think it was just?

How about waiting on the outcome first and then do the judging?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

schmism

Quote from: Paul_H on July 27, 2014, 11:28:35 AM
How about waiting on the outcome first and then do the judging?

Which outcome would you like us to judge?

The outcome of the DCS order which was clearly wrong?
The outcome of the 6 boxes of blades which were sent twice and still wrong?
The outcome of the log deck order and its color which was wrong?
Not to mention the clear FTC bait and switch violation by expecting the customer to pay more after the original quote was wrong?

Paul, you mentioned both sides of as story.   Its rare for any company in any field to respond to such issues publicly unless the OP is flat out wrong.  (a clear example was Tesla's rebuttal of the criticisms as written by the NY times reporter when his "story" clearly did not match facts that Tesla could provide)
But for the sake of argument, what exactly could you hope WM side of the story is for the above clearly incorrect issues?   Generally any explanation you could provide would only seem like an excuse as to how the error was made and why it wasn't corrected before it made it to the customer.   

How do i judge WM based on this thread?   
I found it surprising they could let so many significant errors make it to the customer. 
I found it surprising that the OP wasn't able to get better service before coming to the forum.
I am NOT surprised that moving to social media for a better response actually resulted in a much better response.
I am NOT surprised that after the above actions, the OP is now satisfied with his current order.

Overall I believe that while the tread may judge WM performance on the original orders for the OP as extremely poor,  (I don't know how you could honestly believe they were anything but that), I do believe that WM has in fact either re-stated various QA/QC policies and or created new ones based on this unfortunate string of events, And that WILL make WM a better company for it.

So overall i see it as positive,  the customer finally got the attention he deserved, and an outcome he was happy with, and the company has stated its making changes to prevent these style errors in the future.  (so they have improved)
039 Stihl 010AV  NH TC33D FEL, with toys

Paul_H

Touched a nerve,eh? So be it.  :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I did not buy my Woodmizer because of social media information. I bought mine solely from seeing 4 different mills being run by 4 different friends of mine.
I entered their feedback in my mind and helped each friend on each of their mills as an off bearer from time to time.
At the time, I did't even know the Forestry Forum existed.

Over time, my choice was the Woodmizer......simply because it was the best mill out of the 4 that I had come in contact with.

I hope I wear this LT40 completely out because I know I will get another one......and if I'm a wearing this one out on a daily bases.......it's because the "Little Fat Boy" is a making $$$$$$$$$$$$$. I can assure you of that and I'm glad I bought the Woodmizer and will do it again REGARDLESS of what others say.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Peter Drouin

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 27, 2014, 12:33:53 PM
I did not buy my Woodmizer because of social media information. I bought mine solely from seeing 4 different mills being run by 4 different friends of mine.
I entered their feedback in my mind and helped each friend on each of their mills as an off bearer from time to time.
At the time, I did't even know the Forestry Forum existed.

Over time, my choice was the Woodmizer......simply because it was the best mill out of the 4 that I had come in contact with.

I hope I wear this LT40 completely out because I know I will get another one......and if I'm a wearing this one out on a daily bases.......it's because the "Little Fat Boy" is a making $$$$$$$$$$$$$. I can assure you of that and I'm glad I bought the Woodmizer and will do it again REGARDLESS of what others say.  :)





smiley_curtain_peek
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Gary_C

Quote from: schmism on July 27, 2014, 12:15:55 PM

Which outcome would you like us to judge?

The outcome of the DCS order which was clearly wrong?
The outcome of the 6 boxes of blades which were sent twice and still wrong?
The outcome of the log deck order and its color which was wrong?
Not to mention the clear FTC bait and switch violation by expecting the customer to pay more after the original quote was wrong?

Paul, you mentioned both sides of as story.   Its rare for any company in any field to respond to such issues publicly unless the OP is flat out wrong.  (a clear example was Tesla's rebuttal of the criticisms as written by the NY times reporter when his "story" clearly did not match facts that Tesla could provide)
But for the sake of argument, what exactly could you hope WM side of the story is for the above clearly incorrect issues?   Generally any explanation you could provide would only seem like an excuse as to how the error was made and why it wasn't corrected before it made it to the customer.   


So you are basing your claims of fault on assumptions and similarities with other companies?

On the first three outcomes you have never seen both sides of the story nor seen the orders yet you are assuming you know the whole story and who is at fault. And mistakes in pricing are NOT in any way a "clear FTC bait and switch violation" as you claim.

These topics can be useful to everyone if one party refuses to take care of their mistakes, but I don't see that here and based what we all know of Woodmizer, I would expect they will take care of these problems. In the meantime, there is no point of piling on criticism from the non participants.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

reswire

Last year I posted about a problem I had with my old Timberking mill.  Check out the thread and read the official response from Timberking and the admin. on this forum...  I think Woodmizer has responded honestly and without whining about being picked on.  That's a class organization.
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

Cypress Man

I would like to clearify my intent for the original post. Again I would like to say I have been a WoodMizer customer for almost 15 yrs now. I have always recieved exellent customer service, technical help, parts availability, etc... for anything I was needing. As you should be able to tell, I am a loyal WoodMizer customer even through all these problems and I love their products.  Although I have delt with numerous WM employees over the years, I wasnt quite sure how the Employee/Supervisor/Management structure was in place. I didnt know if they even had a Customer Service Manager or who he was or not or what Manager was there I should speak to. I never needed his services before. When I began having these "multiple" problems recently, I would contact the WoodMizer Mississippi office and whoever answered the phone in Indy to help resolve the problems I was having.  I was getting nowhere fast, no one could answer my questions to who or why these problems were happening. I thought for a while maybe I was going crazy.  I then decided to write my original post to see if others were also having the same sorts of problems and if so who was the person to help resolve their issues.
Clearly this thread has sparked many opinions on both sides. I really dont have a side. Like I said "I am a loyal WM customer". I just want my stuff to be right. When you spend this much money on equipment you better know what it is your getting.
Thankfully, because of this thread, Mike Handlin responded to this thread and subsuquently called to straighten this mess up. Mike is a real nice and honest guy that gives you honest answers even when its not convenient for him to do so. I RESPECT that. Dan Bowman, the Customer Service Manager also called to help resolve these problems and I believe they are great people to work with and honestly care.
Thursday evening the "correct" log deck install kit" came in just like Mike promised. Friday I began the installation process and closely followed the manufacturers owners manual to ensure it was correctly installed.  One of the first items was to bolt down the log deck to the concrete slab exactly 36" from the log deck eyebolt to the eyebolt on the log deck stand that is bolted to the mill. I installed 12 concrete bolt anchors to the log deck feet and completed the hydraulic and electrical installations.  When trying the new deck, I immediatly saw the log deck arm would hit the roller guide arm on the sawmill if it were extended open. :-[  I called Mike and apparently they havent upgraded the manual to include the Wide Head LT70 specs for this section. Therefore I had to remove and cut off the 12 anchor bolts flush with the slab and move the log deck back 6"inches for it to miss the roller guide arm.  I understand with all the newly added mills to their line that these things can and do happen but its no less frustrating to deal with. Mike said that they will now sent out folks from WoodMizer to install industrial equipment whenever industrial equipment is ordered to prevent these types of problems in the future and all LT70 orders have to be reviewed by him.  I am convinced he can correct this in the future.
Tim from WoodMizer MS called to say he would be by Tuesday to paint the log deck orange. Hopefully in my last post Ill let everyone know what a great job was done and all this can be put behind us. Thanks again to Mike H. and Dan Bowman for all your help and understanding.   
LT70 wide head electric, IC5 Power conveyor, transfer table, Stop and Load Log Deck, Catapiller 360B Telehandler, Cat tl642c Teleloader, Cat TH514 Telehandler, Woodmizer EG400 edger, Logosol PH360 moulder, Extrema 26" Planner, Grizzly 16" dual conveyor resaw, Prentice 285 log loader

LaneC

   That is great. I am glad you informed us. This sounds like the positive WM remarks that I have heard about in the past while researching mills. It sounds as though they have put in place something to remedy the problem. I wish you well and hope that it works for you. Please keep us informed.
Man makes plans and God smiles

Okrafarmer

Good to hear that everything is being made right.  :)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

barbender

Well CypressMan, I am sure of one thing- I hope you post a video of all of your sweet equipment humming along making lumber once you get everything ironed out ;)
Too many irons in the fire

Brucer

I was treated as a valued customer by Wood-Mizer Canada West from the time I first contacted them. I hadn't ordered anything and had said it would be at least a year before I did. Didn't matter.

Since then, every dealing I've had with them has been positive. They've sold me two sawmills (both new), an edger (used), two 6' extensions, plus several upgrades to my second mill.

I needed the first extensions in a hurry but they had just sold the last one they had. I ordered one but the truck wouldn't arrive for at least 3 weeks from Indy. Two days later I got a call -- a customer wanted to buy a 24' extension (which they had) but needed to sell his 6' extension first. Marv gave me the name of the customer, we dealt directly, and a day later there I had my extension. WM didn't make a penny from that sale (from me) but they made two customers happy.

I had an opportunity to borrow a well used sharpener and setter, both in sad shape. I contacted Gary at WM Canada West and he sold me the various bearings, shafts and springs that I needed to put the sharpener back in like-new condition. I spend about $100 total on both machines. He was every bit as helpful as if I was buying new equipment from him.

Cypress Man has every reason to be annoyed. He was hit with one screw-up after another. Things will go wrong with even the best manufacturers but this was extreme. Yet when I read over the list of problems, I see, at most, two root causes. Too many companies would just fire "the person responsible." Wood-Mizer is addressing the root causes instead. That's the sign of a world-class company.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

just_sawing

I have read this article with amusement since one year ago I wrote a similar article about visiting WM after having bought five WM machines (Not counting Sharpener) and even though we called ahead were given less than spectacular service. One of the issues was the support for demonstrating at a 500,000 attended fair.
WM even stopped by the mill at my home and said hi. They understood that a box of blades for spending nine days sawing was not out of line. Well we have been reduced to a fair kit only.
This fair is out of our sawing territory but when 18 years ago a little boy asked his dad while visiting the mill "I thought 2X4s came from Walmart" My wife and I discussed and made some calls. By shear luck we were able to set up at the Wilson County Fair TN and have been doing this for 18 years.
This is our give back to our friends who meet us there at the fair every year and yes people have learned that I am captured there any many hold logs in the area to get sawed.
My days are filled with people wanting to own a Mill and I am happy to give them literature and show them how to saw. This will be the last year that I ask WM for support. They feel that giving me a hat and scales to give away is all that it is worth to them so be it. I am there to let young people in age or heart dream, and I will continue to do so.
I would have thought WM would have wanted to show case their equipment and I don't think 9 days of showcasing for a box of blades was out of line but that is their choice and when I buy a new mill in the future if they are around they will be on the top of my list. 
I have to apologize for jumping the gun. Our fair package arrived last week but when I got around to check my E-mail I have conformation of blades coming. I wanted to make the correction and I do appreciate the support from WM.
You can follow me at
www.http://haneyfamilysawmill.com

beenthere

(edit)   Did they ask you to go to the fair?

Did you say what you wanted in return?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Paul_H

QuoteThis fair is out of our sawing territory but when 18 years ago a little boy asked his dad while visiting the mill "I thought 2X4s came from Walmart" My wife and I discussed and made some calls. By shear luck we were able to set up at the Wilson County Fair TN and have been doing this for 18 years.


This is our give back to our friends who meet us there at the fair every year and yes people have learned that I am captured there any many hold logs in the area to get sawed.


  I am there to let young people in age or heart dream, and I will continue to do so.


There are 3 good reasons to saw at the fair that you listed and as a bonus it appears that you pick up some logs and potential customers.

Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

just_sawing

Yes I am blessed to be at the fair with or with out support. It has taught me many things and I am happy to be there.
Instead of trying to justified why it benefits WM to have a presence or not I would rather tell a story there that change some of our views.
The fair used to have a POWWOW there which had many good craftsmen doing everything from jewelry to bows. In 2002 after 911 it was a different. My wife and I happen to notice that the vendors were not doing anything in sales. This was double hard for many of them ate on what they sold that week and one fine craftsman family happen to mention that they had sold 50 cents worth the whole day.
My wife cooks over a campfire and feeds us plus a few of the vendors. We decided to put everything that we made that year at the fair in food for our friends. One night my wife over a campfire feed over seventy people. The more I sawed the more she cooked. At the end of the fair we had feed people every night and it still was the most profitable fair we had had to date. It taught us a valuable lesson on faith.
I am happy to showcase a fine machine and I am happy that it might help a company gain. I am happy to receive support from WM and whether they do in the future or not will not stop me from breaking down my operation and going to the fair. I lose money for the week for going but I am blessed in the long run. I have also made wonderful friends. 
You can follow me at
www.http://haneyfamilysawmill.com

Paul_H

A company is made up of individuals,real people with families and responsibilities.When the economy is good,things flow easier and plentiful but when things are bad,it's hard to remember the former blessings.

We knew a local company that used to give a turkey to their employees as a thank you around Christmas time but one year they had a extremely profitable year and they bonused  the whole crew $10.000 each at Christmas time(circa 1979)
The next year was lean and the bonus was $500.00 and one employee went over to the owner demanding the same bonus as the year before.

It's good to enjoy what you are doing and anything else is a bonus.

Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Magicman

Your reward is the satisfaction of giving.  That feeling has no limitation or equal.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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