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Clear cut or not ?

Started by kennyb3030, October 09, 2014, 03:36:06 PM

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kennyb3030

hey guys, first time poster here, my family has about 300 acres here in nw louisiana, half pasture and half timber, had some timber taken off about 5 yrs ago, other than that nothing has ever been cut. We are talking about planting, i talked to a cutter just to give me his opinion in the blind about what to do, he says he would clear cut the remaining timber and start all over, rest of the family is saying not to clear cut and just plant the pasture area, what do u guys think ?

fishpharmer

Welcome to FF.  I am not sure what to tell you about the property.  I personally would try to keep my family happy.  I would also hire a professional Forester, that can give you real options.  Just my opinion.
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kennyb3030

the timber doesnt loook that great to me, alot of small trees, thats why i say clear cut and start fresh

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: kennyb3030 on October 09, 2014, 04:08:53 PM
the timber doesnt loook that great to me, alot of small trees, thats why i say clear cut and start fresh

If you start over, the trees you have will be even smaller. :(

If they live. :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

curdog

There are way too many variables to answer this. Depends on  species, age, growth rates, local markets.  The small trees could be suppressed and not ever going to make it, or they could just be young trees. Storms could cause pockets to regenerate to cause an uneven age stand. I'd look for a local forester to walk things with you and come up with a plan.
The area may need to be clear cut and started over or may just need more time to grow.

kennyb3030

looks like to me the timber area is either a really big mature tree or a really small tree, the small trees haven't grown much in the last 10 yrs, and other areas are just a thicket,

Ianab

Over 300 acres it's likely you have different areas, in different states of growth.

Now it may be that there are areas that are best cleared of old over-mature trees and stunted suppressed junk, and just start again. That is a valid management practice in some circumstances.

There may be other areas that are overcrowded and starting to stagnate, and just need thinning or a selective harvest to open up space for the young trees to grow some more.

There may be areas that are actually growing OK, and should just be left alone?

I'd be very careful about just knocking over the whole 300 acres as it will look like a bomb site and wont have a decent tree on it for 50 years or so. For 300 acres it's certainly worth hiring a professional to at least look the properly over and provide some recommendations about managing it. A local forester will know YOUR tree species, climate, and how local  forests respond to different treatments
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

beenthere

Quotehad some timber taken off about 5 yrs ago, other than that nothing has ever been cut.

I take that to mean "never been cut by your family". Suspect not too long ago, the 300 acres were cut pretty heavy and little to no replanting done.

If truly "never" been cut, then I'd suspect the soil is not good enough to grow trees.

These things can be sorted out by a knowledgeable forester, I'm sure.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

SliverPicker

Quote from: Ianab on October 09, 2014, 07:17:05 PM
Over 300 acres it's likely you have different areas, in different states of growth.

Now it may be that there are areas that are best cleared of old over-mature trees and stunted suppressed junk, and just start again. That is a valid management practice in some circumstances.

There may be other areas that are overcrowded and starting to stagnate, and just need thinning or a selective harvest to open up space for the young trees to grow some more.

There may be areas that are actually growing OK, and should just be left alone?

I'd be very careful about just knocking over the whole 300 acres as it will look like a bomb site and wont have a decent tree on it for 50 years or so. For 300 acres it's certainly worth hiring a professional to at least look the properly over and provide some recommendations about managing it. A local forester will know YOUR tree species, climate, and how local  forests respond to different treatments

X2
Yooper by trade.

CJennings

The areas with dense and small trees may only need some thinning to release the trees and get decent growth. Or maybe not. I'll repeat the above posters' suggestions and suggest that you hire a good forester. Any decision you make is going to impact that land for generations into the future. With 300 acres, the difference in what you receive from this logger and what you could get if carefully managed could be far more than the cost of having a forester look it over.

Ron Scott

Yes, as stated above, with 300 acres you should definitely have a professional forester familiar with your local ecosystems look at the property and provide you with some management advice for the property's future potential in line with your family's future objectives for it. There may well be a diversity of management activities by vegetative types over the 300 acres.
~Ron

Phorester


wdmn

Clear cutting 300 acres is not the sort of decision to make without serious, informed deliberation. Apart from being your property those 300 acres may currently be performing several other functions of which you are not aware; no offense meant.

curdog

Another thing to think about is clearcutting 300 acres in one swipe is taxes. Even if you were to get something as low as 500 an acre you would still be looking at 150,000 in income. The federal government will allow up to $10000 in reforestation credits to be done. So taxes could kill you if you don't break it up in smaller areas

Rocky_Ranger

NW Louisiana; clearcut in three chunks, if it is half open and in pasture as you say (three years apart).  That part of the country will have 14 - 16" dbh trees in 20 - 25 years.  Planting improved loblolly maybe even better.  Talk to the family and get a forester to look at it and a tax accountant.  If it is inherited then the "basis" comes into play and may not be that big of a burden.  Wouldn't bother me a bit to clearcut 150 acres, rip and plant in improved loblolly.  I seen lob plantations in western Arkansas 25 years old and the first thinnings were at 15 years for fiber - and impressive.....
RETIRED!

Phorester


I think the question should not be "Clearcut or not?" That implies that clearcutting is the goal. Clearcutting is only a forest management practice used to reach a goal. The question instead should be, "How do I improve the future health and value of my forest?"

I used to "recommend" to landowners in their management plan that they clearcut and replant. I finally realized that the actual goal was to create a new forest, or to create a different wildlife habitat, using clearcutting as the first step to reach that goal.  So now I say; "I recommend that you create a new, healthier  forest here.  The first step is to clearcut the existing poor quality forest, and then plant a new one."  Or; "To improve your forest for wildlife I recommend that you create different types of forest habitat to make it more desirable for wildlife. One way to accomplish that goal is to clearcut in some areas".


mesquite buckeye

Very well put. Clearcut is a dirty word with the low information public. This is a much better way to explain it. Well done. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

mesquite buckeye

Just noticed your byline. I remember an old retired forester told me that he was told when he was in school by an old forester that the best way to plant a forest is with an ax. That has been my experience as well. :)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

wmrussel

I second what the other foresters are saying.  You should find a consulting forester to give you some advice. 

Clear-cutting is but one option open to you as a landowner.  If you do clear-cut, you can replant loblolly pine and have a good stand of trees in 25 years.  By the time it is 25, the stand will likely have been thinned once and most likely twice. 

The most important thing is to know your and your family's goal with the property and act accordingly. 

Good luck and let us know what you do!
My name is William, but people call me Pete.  Long story......

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