milling 34 foot logs on bandsaw mill

[muskoka guy]

My brother and I have a construction business. My brother wants to either build a bandsaw mill or buy one to cut pine logs for log homes. This would require cutting at least 30 plus foot logs. They would be milled to 9 1/2 inches wide from the center, and the remainder cut into beams and lumber. Does this sound  feasable. Is a smaller unit with extentions able to do the job. Are these logs too big and will wreck most portable mills. I have more questions but this will do to start. Happy to have found the forum. Thanks

[RexBandit]

Go to Timber Kings website and look at the owners testimonials. Theres a guy there cutting a nice long beam.

[Magicman]

Welcome muskoka guy.   I believe that you two guys are almost neighbors  ??? 

[thecfarm]

muskoka guy,welcome to the forum. The experts are coming. There are a few members here that do it,but those long ones have to supported,moved with care. Seem like they have some nice suppost equipment and know how.
Building something that long and true could take alot of fun out of the building part too.

[RexBandit]

I belive you may be right Magic. Seems theres more okie miller's then I thought

[pineywoods]

Most of the larger mills are 21 ft plus or minus a few. You can saw a 30 ft log on a 20 ft mill, but it's not easy. Bed extensions are available for most mills, I think woodmizer has a 21 ft extension for a 21 ft mill. The smaller manual mills can be extended almost indefinitely, but you need a good solid foundation. The real problem is log weight. a 35 ft long  log is gonna be large and heavy. Really need hydraulics plus some heavy support equipment.

[WDH]

Members Customsawyer (Jake) and Dave Shepard cut the long ones and have a lot of experience.  Check out this thread to see a video of Customsawyer cutting some long ones.  I believe that he can cut over 40' in length.  See Reply # 14 in the thread below.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,62397.msg921511.html#msg921511

[muskoka guy]

We own a backhoe as well as a 9000 lb lift telehandler. We have built log homes in the past but have always  had them shipped to a larger mill. My brother figures if we can mill them ourselves, each house we do will get us closer to paying off the cost of the mill. We have some large white pine on our property so we wouldnt have to pay for trucking for at least the first two log shells.  He figures we can build our own mill, maybe just buy the sawhead and build the rest. I have worked around portable sawmills in the past but know very little about them. I am trying to get as informed as possible before we decide which route to go.

[elk42]

Hello All This is my first post of my Lt15 with 44ft of bed

 

[Peter Drouin]

Wellcome to the FF elk42, nice set up

[WDH]

Awesome!

[muskoka guy]

That looks like what we are after. Is the saw auto feed or do you have to push it down the track.  I like the idea of the I beams under the tracking. Is that a factory set up just added on top of the I beams, or did you build the track extensions yourself.

[Peter Drouin]

And muskoka guy wellcome, so you see the set up that elk42 has or go big, like mine

 

I can do 45', spend a little or a lot :D :D

[Peter Drouin]

There you go WDH you too can go long elk 42 showed you the way :D :D ;D

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Welcome to the FF Muskoka Guy, and Elk42,

WDH's links are a great start, and I agree with RexBandit, contact Timber King, there great folks.  I would also contact Hud-Son Forestry Products, we use an Oscar 30" and I have seen/run a few with home made extended tracks.  There are a number of ways to build them and it's not terribly complicated.  You could even go with a smaller power head if all you are going to do is log cabin work, but I would suggest as big as you can afford, as milling is addictive.  30" gets most of our work well done. 

Good luck and welcome,

jay

[elk42]

Yes it has power feed and it just a WM LT15 with ex/bed

 

[WDH]

Peter,

No way do I want to handle those monster logs  ;D.

Musk,

Those look like factory bed extensions.  I have the LT15 with the 25 HP engine, and you can put a power feed on the mill to move the blade through the log without having to push the mill head.  Works great, and would be a must have in your application if you went with the LT15.  It would be a great set-up for sure, just slower and not as productive as Customsawyers set-up with the LT70.  I guess it depends on what is more important, time or money. 

[pineywoods]

Hey Elk42, welcome to the forestry forum. Nice setup. Pics on your first post  8) We are almost  neighbors. I'm a few miles south of Huttig. LeroyC, Slysam, and Planman1954 also located here. Come visit.

[elk42]

On post #8 the frame at the end is my log turner I know it will turn 32"x 28' log

[SAnVA]

I don't like to saw 16' logs, so I can't even imagine sawing a 40' plus log! Guess I'm just a wimp but I prefer 8' logs (8'6") that is!

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

And Welcome to The Forum Muskoka and Elk42  ;) ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)

Being a Log Builder and partner in My Parents log building business in a previous life my first 3 mills hat the requirement of doing 40' timbers and the last mill a bandmill i brought when i was 15yo acctually crept out to 55' cut length over a couple of contracts.

Musk For this type of work I would personally get a manual like the WM lt15,TK 1200 or Cooks mp32 seeing as you already have the support equipment .  I like your overhead turner frame I use to turn the big ones with the crane with grapple  or volvo loader but a good canthook or two will do it too  .

Your brother is rite it will not take long to recoupe the capital outlay the reason I got the bandmill when i was younger was for one job for a redwood log home with flat sides on the internal walls along with the fact i was already contract sawing about 1500 to 2500bft per week of douglas fir per week for a couple of local hardwares .


Dany time and money are one and the same with log building imho mate as when you start punching out big timbers ,wall logs and long beams you can tally up 5000+ in a day with perfect logs and two good blokes a 40' 16x12" x40' split into two 16x6 wall logs your hitting 612bft plus the wing boards in one log but remember i had crane trucks loaders ect  ;)

We looked at the TK B-20 in 96 when I brought the manual Jonsered mill the TK would have been bloody nice but was not necessary  plus i didnt have the cash  :'( :'( ;) :D ;D ;D

Regards Chris

[Brucer]

A Wood-Mizer LT40 with 12' of extension will easily handle those big logs. I'm sure the other brand name mills will do just as well (look to the left of the screen).

Here's a 34' log on 32' of mill. Actually the mill is 32'-11" and the log is 34'-6".

[scouter Joe]

We have a 1993 - 28' enercraft bandsaw mill with a 24' homemade extension . It can cut 50' logs for dovetail buildings ,timbers and base and plate logs for round log buildings . Have been using it for 20 years with no ill effects . 

  You are welcome to come and take a look to get some ideas and shareb some stories . scouter Joe

[muskoka guy]

Thanks to all for the replies. Looks like its not out of the question. My one concern was if a smaller portable was capable of the weight of these logs, without bending the frames. We could load the logs with the telehandler or backhoe. Would a hydraulic log turner on a factory unit turn a log if the mill has been extended twenty feet. We probably will only cut two or three log houses a year on it , the rest of the time just regular lumber. Each log house would only have about four long logs, the rest would be shorter, maybe twenty feet at the longest.

[Banjo picker]

Your talking about cutting 12 logs a year...long ones that is...there have been topics on here about cutting logs considerably longer than the mill was supposed to cut...took a little doing....I don't rember who posted it...maybe Bibbyman...Banjo

[mikeb1079]

musk, if you're only thinking about cutting a relatively small number of long beams per year than i think you may be able to get away w/o a large hydraulic (expensive) mill.  i think a setup like elk42 has where you take a manual mill and beef it up with i beams etc to cut long would work well for you.  as you mentioned you already have the support equipment to move em.  i would think that 2 stout fellows and a couple of the larger logrite cant hooks could turn most of your beams.  if not then just use the telehandler.   

i very much doubt that you'll regret purchasing a mill.  in fact as long as we're gambling i'll go ahead and wager that once you get your mill setup and the word gets out that you can custom cut long timbers you'll be very very busy.   :D :laugh: :D

[muskoka guy]

I had the same thought Mike. We did a shell about 10 years back that had 42 ft long top logs. We have only one mill around our area that could do the job. The trucking of the logs to mill adds costs to the build. If we have a mill capable of the larger logs, we might end up doing more milling than log building. We already have a successful construction business, but we are looking for ways to expand. So many choices. I think a fully automatic mill is out of the question if we want it to cut the long lengths and still be portable.

[Dave Shepard]

Peter Drouin unhooks from his extension to do portable work. It wouldn't be too bad to move the extension as well. I'll be pouring a concrete pad for my mill and extension, and removing the axle and jacks. I won't be moving again after that.

Personally, I think it is better to move the logs to the mill, than the other way around regarding long stuff. The expense of moving the mill and extensions or track sections and lining them up is probably higher than the cost of trucking, unless you are going to be doing a lot of sawing. I recently sawed some longer stuff which was trucked from CT to MA, then the timbers were trucked further into MA from me. For me to move the mill, bed extension, then set it up, as well as move the edger and LULL forklift, would have cost way more than the trucking of the logs and timbers.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum elk42, and thanks for sharing the pictures of your operation.   

[GAB]

If you have a long bed and are sawing short logs (less than half the length of the bed) then you can saw on the far end and drag the boards to be edged to the other end of the bed where they can be edged.  This would save you having to remove them and then reloading them for edging.  If you have an edger the forget what I said.  Just a thought.  Gerald

[muskoka guy]

thanks  scouter for the offer. We might just take you up on that offer.

[muskoka guy]

good point gab. I am leaning toward a portable(maybe home made), built into the extensions so that the portable part can be removed and taken to do mobile milling. There are several around already, and we have even used them to get things milled ourselves, but I think we can at least get some work with it. With the extensions we can cut our own long stuff and if someone else needs this service they can come to us.

[thecfarm]

I know why muskoka guy is sawing long,but you 3 other memebers,why are you all sawing long?

elk42,welcome to the forum.

[elk42]

thecfarmer I tried that it did not work as well as working two logs at the same time.  I cut one log until it  ready to turn then move to the other log. The helper removes slabs, flitches and roll. The helper runs his a$$ off to keep me sawing all the time.    elk     

[Peter Drouin]

I know why muskoka guy is sawing long,but you 3 other memebers,why are you all sawing long?

elk42,welcome to the forum.

If some one calls and wants long stuff I can do it, no one around here can, and that makes it more $$ , and I like to do the hard things It's not like cutting 1" boards all day that 40' tree will talk to you when your cutting it, and then thats the fun part to see if you can make a nice beam :D :D ;D

[Jemclimber]

Welcome Elk42, 
Can you show some close up pictures of your log turning head? Nice setup.

[Okrafarmer]

Muskoka, welcome to the Forum. There are a lot of good mills out there and almost every company that makes band mills builds bed extensions to go with them.

I would suggest, don't overlook the possibility of buying a good used band mill, and then either fabricating or finding a bed extension for it, or even a full second sawmill of the same type that's being scrapped.

I use a Woodmizer LT40HD that is 23 years old. I also bought another one that was going to be scrapped (minus engine and a few parts) for $600. If I ever need a bed extension, I can use the frame of the spare sawmill for a bed extension. That would put me able to mill right around 44'.

I second the motion that it is not a great idea to mobilize your bed extension onto jobsites for "away games". Remove the bed extension and leave it home for away jobs that don't require the extension, but for all your long timber milling, do it at home where you know you're going to be straight and level every time. If you build it, they will come. . . . with the logs.

[elk42]

Hello Jemclimber, Be glad to share photos.  The frame rolls back  and  forth on 9" h beam and wheels are from casters [cast iron]. 12v dc winch pe3500 mile marker on top,the winch slides back and forth to adjust for log size. Also look at the log clamp, it works on 12v dc winch 

 

[muskoka guy]

To expand on the mobile unit that can be removed from the permanent extension set up idea.  Has anyone had any experience with a fully hydraulic mill with extensions. I am wondering how the hydraulics would work with the extension. As previously stated we really only need to mill extra long longs a handful of times a year. The rest of the year it would be smaller logs. I wouldnt want to have to go fully manual all year just for a handful of logs. Likewise, it would not seem smart to have full hydraulics on the extensions for a few logs and not be able to move the mill. Would it be possible to disconnect the hydraulics and use the carriage manually for the log cuts, then reconnect the hydraulics for mobile milling and smaller logs not requiring the extensions. Maybe quick connects on the hydraulic lines. Thank you all for your patience and knowledge.

[Dave Shepard]

With the exception of customsawyer's, Wood-Mizer extensions do not have hydraulics. I have an LT40 Super Hydraulic with a 24' extension, almost identical to Peter's mill. When you hook the extension to the mill, you link up the drive chains so you still have power feed over the length of the mill, which has a 45' cut capacity. I've sawn some 30 logs and I was able to use the turner for most of the work. A manual taper on the extension would be nice, but you can get by without it. As you can see in the pic, the bed extension (BX) is a manual LT40 frame. That's a 27' on there. I put stationary legs on this mill and removed the axle, but you could mount the BX to a pad and leave the axle and jacks on the main mill for portable milling.

[muskoka guy]

Do you remove the main part for portable milling dave or just stay stationary. If you have hydraulic log stops on the main mill, do you just use the manual ones on the extension for cutting longer logs. There is much to learn, especially if we are going to try to build one ourselves. Might be better off as stated to buy a used one and an additional parts one for the deck and salvage any parts from it we can use. I appreciate everyones input. thank you.

[Dave Shepard]

I am totally stationary. My focus is sawing my own timbers, and custom sawing timbers for other timber framers. It's just too much effort to try and move everything needed to another site just for a few timbers. That is for sawing long stuff. If you were just going to move the main mill, it might be worth your while. I use the manual backstops on the extension. I've not had to clamp anything on the extension, 30' to 45' logs don't seem to move much.

[mikeb1079]

dave that's an awesome pic.   8)

[WDH]

Elk,

I have to say, your set-up is as slick as any that I have seen.  Very impressive and professional. 

[WoodenHead]

Taking a few steps back for a minute, I have to ask if it is worthwhile for you to invest a considerable sum of money and/or time to be able to saw a relatively small number of long logs.  Do the long timbers/logs you use for building log homes have to air dry for a while before you use them?  Our machined logs in our log home were air dried a few years before they were put in place.  This meant that the supplier had to carry a few years worth of inventory.  Unless you build with fresh sawn logs/timber maybe it is worthwhile to rely on a supplier rather than tackle it yourself?  I just offer that for thought.

If it is worthwhile for you to mill for yourself, then I would suggest purchasing equipment that can do the job rather than building it yourself.  There are folks on this forum who are very capable and have done a great job building their own mill.  Most likely you could do so as well.  However, it takes a lot of time to engineer and fabricate something.  I'm just modifying my mill a bit and it consumes considerable time, particularly if you are occupied running a business.  Adding a homemade extension to a factory mill might not be so be bad, but a mill from scratch is quite an undertaking.

Lastly, milling (in most cases) is not nearly as profitable as other business ventures.  If you are interested in milling for yourself because you enjoy it, that's fantastic.  Milling as a profitable venture is much tougher.  Again, sometimes it is better (i.e. more financially advantageous) to have some else mill and you turn their efforts into something more profitable (like a log home  )  Milling can be a great way to lose a fortune slowly as others on this forum have pointed out (But there are those who are successful as well).

Anyway, that's my view from 50,000 feet.      

   

[Brucer]

I know why muskoka guy is sawing long,but you 3 other memebers,why are you all sawing long?

Am I one of the 3?  :D

I added 6' of extension so I could get a large timber frame contract .
I added another 6' of extension so I could get an even larger timber frame contract .

For both those jobs, there was far more shorter stuff than long stuff. But if I had said I could only saw up to 20', I would probably have lost the whole job. I told the customers, "No, I can't saw those longer pieces today but I'll be able to saw them within a week of you placing your order".

[Okrafarmer]

What Woodenhead said is worth considering very carefully.

However, if you will use the mill in your business, and your business is doing well already, I think it can be a good investment, especially if you have several good people regularly employed.

Also, if there is no one nearby who is milling long timbers, you may have a good niche market available to you. Word will get around, and you can mill for others as well as yourself. When you do that, be sure to charge enough to make it worthwhile for you. If there is no one else within 30-50 miles of you, people will come to you for sure. It may not be every week, but it doesn't need to be, since you already have a good business going.

And Brucer, you make a good point too. Just the capability to do the long stuff will get you more business with the short stuff, too.

[muskoka guy]

Thanks for the input woodenhead. My brother seems to have his heart set on buying the Norwood  mx 34 manual as a base to start from. We can build our own extensions to get us up to the required length. This will get us started. As I stated earlier we have enough pines on our property for two shell. We build them green and let them air dry for a year or so assembled. The last shell we built cost us 6500 dollars for milling and 1500 for trucking. If we can mill two shells on site without needing any trucking we are at about 15000 dollars in savings. The mx 34 can be bought locally for just under $8000 plus taxes new. If we add a few thousand for extensions we will be well on our way for paying for the mill. We have several very good friends who are heavy equipment mechanics who would be willing to give their expertise on adding some hydraulics later as we get up and running. A trailer can be added later as well. We are not looking to make alot of money milling, but more to save money building the shells. We are really custom home builders, but my brother has lots of experience as a log home builder.  We can make a few shells with our trees in stock, and possibly sell a shell to a customer who wants the rest of the house built. If the milling end of it takes off, we have employees in our current business that we could use to operate the mill as well. There are not many mills in our area who can mill longer logs, so maybe we might get some work in that area. Its all a crap shoot, but my experience tells me if you can get one or two jobs to pay for a tool that will last years, at some point it will start to make you money. Still wieghing the options myself as I dont like to rush into any business venture without a good plan and lots of research. Thanks again.

[Okrafarmer]

There is also something to be said for being able to mill your own timbers EXACTLY the way you want them done, and being able to be directly responsible for their exact sizing, shaping, length, placement out of the log, and so on. I suspect milling your own timbers will make you a better timber framer, and using your own timbers will make you a better sawyer over time.

PS, you might want to mill and build a small timber frame barn in one of your back yards, before milling timbers for a house. Just saying. . . . .

[rmack]

Woodmizer builds fully hydraulic bed extensions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkfqUmp4Wrs

[Dave Shepard]

That's in Europe somewhere, not available in the US. A hydraulic 12' would go great between my mill and BX24 extension.

[customsawyer]

I am with Brucer I started out with a 6' ext. then traded that for a 12' ext. Next the customer wanted 40' timbers. That is when I got my 24' hyd. ext. I still have the 12' ext. as the customer advertises timbers up to 52' so if that day arrives I will need the extra 12'. If I was only doing a few timbers a year I would not worry about having hyd. on the ext. but if you are doing many more than that they hyd. sure come in handy. The point I was trying to make is that when customers find out that you can do longer timbers then they keep coming with orders for even longer timbers.

[muskoka guy]

Hopefully that will be the case customsawyer. I really like it when I can get a customer to help pay for stuff I want anyway.lol  We are always looking to expand our business. I have found there is money in machinery, as long as you can keep it working. Hoping a few jobs of our own and possibly some side work will have it paid for. After that if things are going, we can look at adding some hydraulics and making it a bit more efficient.

[Solomon]

My brother and I have a construction business. My brother wants to either build a bandsaw mill or buy one to cut pine logs for log homes. This would require cutting at least 30 plus foot logs. They would be milled to 9 1/2 inches wide from the center, and the remainder cut into beams and lumber. Does this sound  feasable. Is a smaller unit with extentions able to do the job. Are these logs too big and will wreck most portable mills. I have more questions but this will do to start. Happy to have found the forum. Thanks

Customsawyer is the guy to talk to about that.   When it comes to sawing anything the guy is like a walking Encyclopedia!

[rmack]

I am with Brucer I started out with a 6' ext. then traded that for a 12' ext. Next the customer wanted 40' timbers. That is when I got my 24' hyd. ext. I still have the 12' ext. as the customer advertises timbers up to 52' so if that day arrives I will need the extra 12'. If I was only doing a few timbers a year I would not worry about having hyd. on the ext. but if you are doing many more than that they hyd. sure come in handy. The point I was trying to make is that when customers find out that you can do longer timbers then they keep coming with orders for even longer timbers.

just curious, did you have to do anything a grown man would never admit to in order to get that bx24 hydraulic equipped and synched to the main mill hydraulics?

[LTmarine64]

I have wm Lt 15 and can cut 30ft logs now.  Looking to add to it in a couple weeks

[muskoka guy]

Do you mills that are manual ( maybe autos too ),set up slightly down hill to the cut or just level. Im thinking this would be a good question of you longer mills that might have a permanent extension built on the end. This is what we are considering at this point. Looks like we might buy the mx 34 or maybe wait for the new hd 36. We will get it fully manual, buy a four foot extension, and build our own 20 foot extension. This should give us a little better than 36 ft. We will probably just buy the wheel kit, at this point it just seems easier to have it portable right off the bat. We are thinking must haves right away will be the toe boards, so we will probably buy them too. The remainder of the goodies we would like, will have to wait until the mill starts earning some loot. If there is anything else that you think might be a must have, feel free to chime in. We have two machines so we can get by for now with the loading and off loading. The other thing we would probably get if we start needing blades sharpened too much, is the mid priced blade sharpener. Works off a dremel. Any thoughts on those. Thanks all for the great advice so far. You have really made this decision process a lot easier on me.

[WDH]

You really need to consider the power feed, especially on the long logs.

[muskoka guy]

If it turns out that we end up doing a lot of long milling, we will definitely be thinking of that. In the mean time , we have enough white pines in stock for two log shells. We will probably only cut about 16 long ones at the most. If word gets out that we can cut long logs, and it starts being a larger part of the business, we will be adding it as well as some more hydraulics.

[customsawyer]

rmack my mill and ext. both run off of a 7hp hyd. pump in a shed close by. It is just like the one that Bibbyman has and I got it from the same company since they already had all of the specs figured out. The ext. also has its own valve body.
When I ordered it I just got the ext. with the hyd. cylinders on it. I supplied all of the hoses and the valve body, since they would of had no idea as to how long to make the hoses.

[red pine]

Welcome to the Forum Muskoka. Could not resist in putting my two cents worth (or should I say two nickels now since the pennies are extinct). I decided to get a TK2000 hydraulic (view of my tender age) largely to build a log cabin. The 2000 bed is capable of 21' but I was able to cut most of my 25' logs (squared them on 3 sides) on it with much difficulty. I only have a tractor so 25' long is all I could handle. I think 34' would also work but some adjustments may be required. Most of the logs now drying. I have lots of work ahead with the cabin but keep getting calls for carpentry jobs. The money from others to pay for the cabin is nice however. Maple saps running as well. Snow still hanging around.    

[red pine]

One should read before posting. The word should have been "without much difficulty" rather than "with much difficulty"

[muskoka guy]

thanks for the input redpine. You can modify your post by clicking on the modify button in the top right corner. Change and press save. I have had to use it plenty.  ;D

[papow22]

Well If I lived in Ontario I'd go & check out Norwood's site in person.Norwood's has a new type of a mill with all the bells & whistles but like any other thing = more $$$$$$ .For I have lm2000 that cuts 16' trees with no problem & I use the tractor to turn them 4 me.And I think before my back goes "clink".Cause when you get older you think before you do something.Not after. :D
                                                                 For i'm not bragging for any mill,But they all REQUIRE something called THOUGHT & $$$$$$.

[newstick]

I am a log builder and have a hudson oscar 36 bed is made out of angle iron and  we made it 60' long . It is a manual feed with electric winch for up and down. I would say the mill is ok but not the best. I have had mine for 6 years now and all I have done to it is put a battery in it , but i dont use it everyday. New I think I had about $8500 into it.