I was in hopes of white oak

[Tee]

At least I finally got some different material other than pine to saw but I was in hopes this log was white oak to replace the decking on the equipment trailer in the picture but now I'm not so sure. I did add to my knowledge even if I don't know what kind of lumber I've ended up with. First, newbies don't need to put 28+" on the tail end of the mill. Second the 10 degree blades I have don't do that well in whatever kind of oak this is.








The darker redish areas in the picture with the yellow broom handle is where I'd swept the sawdust off and still wetter in those spots.

[Tee]

Working on posting pics...

[Autocar]

Looks to me to be red oak  ;).

[Jeff]

Looking at the log, and not the lumber I'd say red oak.

[alecs]

Red oak?

[clww]

Red Oak.

[NCDiesel]

At least I finally got some different material other than pine to saw but I was in hopes this log was white oak to replace the decking on the equipment trailer in the picture but now I'm not so sure. I did add to my knowledge even if I don't know what kind of lumber I've ended up with. First, newbies don't need to put 28+" on the tail end of the mill. Second the 10 degree blades I have don't do the well in whatever kind of oak this is.
...snip...
The darker redish areas in the picture with the yellow broom handle is where I'd swept the sawdust off and still wetter in those spots.

Thats Red oak unless the picture is really lying - we use that almost exclusively here in north carolina for decking on trailers.   Nice and strong and there is no apprecialble difference in weathering/decay/longevity between white and red.   

Saw away!

[Jeff]

Nice and strong and there is no apprecialble difference in weathering/decay/longevity between white and red.

I'm glad you are having that work for you.  In most times that simply isn't the case.  White oak greatly exceeds Red Oaks durability. We would never use it here in Michigan for Trailer decks unless we were forced to, and the white oak decking we also oil.

[NCDiesel]

Nice and strong and there is no apprecialble difference in weathering/decay/longevity between white and red.

I'm glad you are having that work for you.  In most times that simply isn't the case.  White oak greatly exceeds Red Oaks durability. We would never use it here in Michigan for Trailer decks unless we were forced to, and the white oak decking we also oil.

You got me worried, so I looked it up in my main source:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1995/highl95a.pdf

Not much difference according to the tests, nor in my experience.  Both are great compared to most other woods.   I have a corn trailer made of red oak that finally had a board in the floor fail after 18 years (built it when I moved in 21 years ago and this has been 2-4 years ago)

Maybe some geographic variability at play here ?



Chapter 2:    Realizing I have no expertise in this matter, other than my own personal experience and a few reference materials, I decided to call a buddy at my ex-employer; a company that who leases tractor-trailers and therefore has to repair vans, flatbeds and heavy equipment trailers.   He said (paraphrasing him as best I can):

"Red oak is 90% of white oak in every measureable way.  Strength, elasticity, decay resistance, puncture, etc.  Just don't use it for, or around,  boats and marine environments, keep it sealed/oiled, and it will last longer than the trailer.  We use white when it is easy, cheap and abundant - which is never - otherwise we use red - which is always ".

He also added how red oak is porous, white is not, and red soaks up preservative nicely.  He thought property alone nearly completely mitigates any minor diasdvantage it has with white with above ground/non-contact decay resistance.

So there you have it, straight from a heavy equipment trailer repair technician. 

[CalebL]

The old farmers around here will only put white oak on/in the ground or on their trailers.  The ole saying is Red Oak don't lay it down, White Oak put it in the ground. 

[beenthere]

The old farmers around here will only put white oak on/in the ground or on their trailers.  The ole saying is Red Oak don't lay it down, White Oak put it in the ground.

That is one of the better rule-of-thumbs I've heard. A good one to follow, as the tests in the cited report were tests off the ground and not laying down. About the most that was tested was weatherability, as I see it. UV breakdown and little in the way of decay possibilities.

NCDiesel

"Red oak is 90% of white oak in every measureable way.

So there you have it, straight from a heavy equipment trailer repair technician. 

And I suspect his comments were to support what he was selling, not necessarily that he really knew his white from red oak. Don't mean that as being rude, but take it that he truly believes he is correct for his business.

[SwampDonkey]

In the USDA Wood Handbook FPL-GTR-113 (table 3-10), the Textbook of Wood Technology and other texts, they will list white oak heartwood as good decay resistance and in particular I think live oak stands out in the white oak group as the most resistant. However when it comes to red oak it is only slightly resistant. Aside from this the tests conducted indicates white oak holds screws better, is stiffer and can stand pounding for a post better than red oak. As far as bending, hardness, splitting, shock resistance and staying in place they are equal. But when looking at data for live oak, these tests indicate live oak to be superior, except when machining and gluing. Live oak is a white oak species.

[Delawhere Jack]

First, newbies don't need to put 28+" on the tail end of the mill.

Dive in, the waters warm!!!  ;D

You'll learn a lot more much faster milling big logs. Usually not the easiest lessons though... :D

BTW, what problems did you have with the 10deg bands? I use almost exclusively 9deg for oak, and aside from an occassional wave when it hits a huge knot, they work pretty well. Any band will take longer milling oak than pine. You might need to cut the feed rate nearly in half, especially oak that large.

[Tee]

Jeff, I wish for the ability to judge tree species by looking at what you have available in the photo (when it was in log form). I was stickering it before it was becoming clear to me it wasn't white. As it appears on the saw bed, it still looks white at that point. I'll be holding out for white for my project. I do wish I didn't have to find somewhere to put this till someone want's it. And what makes that so bad, outside sawing it in half it's provably an odd size for red oak

[Tee]

I think live oak stands out in the white oak group as the most resistant."


SwampDonkey, I have some live oak available. That would be good for trailer decking? I would have to get some other blade type, I know that now.

[Delawhere Jack]

Jeff, I wish for the ability to judge tree species by looking at what you have available in the photo (when it was in log form). I was stickering it before it was becoming clear to me it wasn't white. As it appears on the saw bed, it still looks white at that point. I'll be holding out for white for my project. I do wish I didn't have to find somewhere to put this till someone want's it. And what makes that so bad, outside sawing it in half it's provably an odd size for red oak

Leaves and acorns are the most accurate way to determine what kind of oak you've got. Going by the bark will put you in the madhouse. Don't ask me how I know that. smiley_whacko

[SwampDonkey]

Tee, I think you might find it likes to move a lot when drying. Some others on here would give you a better answer on that.

[millwright]

I have a pile of red oak and one of white oak, and the picture sure looks like the red to me.

[Tee]

Delawhere Jack, OK, I want ask how you know. As you see it in log form is how I got it. I stopped by a construction site where they had a couple stacks of logs and asked what the plans were for them. Ended up I got two loads so far with whatever got picked up first. I think this includes some SYP, long needle pine, poplar, sweet-gum, some I have no idea and yes!!, red oak. I think I'll take a couple pictures of the lot and get some professional help before I mess up more would be good wood.

[WoodenHead]

Out in these parts white oak is used in most cases for trailer decking (aside from softwood that most trailers are usually sold with when new  :)  Red oak is worth considerably more than white oak in our market in my experience.

The 10 degree blade will work okay for me with red oak as long as the log is not frozen or half frozen, but will not work with white oak at all (like the waves of the sea...  :D).  The wood is noticeably harder.  I use 9 degree blades for white oak.

[clww]

The bark was the dead giveaway to me. 70% of all the trees on our property are oaks.

[Banjo picker]

Red oak is worth considerably more than white oak in our market in my experience.

Not down here...I wish I could trade every red oak I have for a white of the same size....White oak is king for trailer decking...Banjo

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

The Drying And Processing Forum has a discussion of red and white oak visual difference about 8 messages down from the top.

I am of the opinion, based on what looks like long rays in the lumber that this is a white oak.  Red oak rays are seldom over 3/4" long and these look well over 1-1/2" in many cases.  I do U.S. wood identification (but not horticultural trees, just commercial US species) for free if you want to send me a very small sample.

[Dave Shepard]

Take a piece of this wood about a foot long, and very straight grained, and put it in a glass of water and see if you can blow bubbles through it.

[Jeff]

Red oak rays are seldom over 3/4" long and these look well over 1-1/2" in many cases.

Seldom is the keyword there. I've seen rays in red oak that look like wooly caterpillars. We didn't see it often, but saw it regularly.