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H profile stickers

Started by BillyB, December 28, 2016, 10:15:21 PM

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BillyB

I read about someone making H profile stickers. What's the reason for an H profile? Is it just to get a wider sticker? If so, is it 3x3" with a 1" groove for the top and bottom?
LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

YellowHammer

The H profile allows airflow down the length of the sticker, preventing trapped moisture and greatly reducing sticker stain in some wood.  I generally use 1-1/8" wide x 3/4 high with a 3/4" wide groove.

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

BillyB

Would these primarily be used for drying slabs?
LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

YellowHammer

Quote from: BillyB on December 28, 2016, 10:27:41 PM
Would these primarily be used for drying slabs?

No, pretty much every 4/4 wood that will sticker stain.  Poplar, basswood, hard and soft maple, and red and white oak, etc.
In most cases they will totally or virtually elimate sticker stain.  They do work well with slabs, also. 

Here's my wife looking through the alley of a few of our stacks, all H stickers.


Here is a drying yard of a local mill, all stacks are on their home made H stickers. 

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

You will find that the "H" profile stickers will last longer if the changes in direction (the corners) are rounded rather than sharp.

There is a patent that covers making the grooves at an angle across the sticker rather than one groove full length.

Stickers with a groove are used on all species and thicknesses.  Having two types of stickers in one yard can be a big pain in the butt.

As note above, make sure that the height (usually 3/4" 99% of the time) is quite a bit different than the width so that the stickers are not turned 90 degrees by mistake.

Stickers can be any species, but some species with water soluble chemicals, like walnut, can have chemicals leach out onto the lumber being dried.  Oak is the most popular species, mainly because oak is available and is very string.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

BillyB

Thank you for the information. I cut a little over 1,100 stickers last week. I made a sticker bin today. The bin is 16' long, 4' deep, and 4' high. I should be able to pack about 4000 stickers in there. When I get time, I will make some of the H profile stickers. Do you recommend planing the stickers down to 3/4 or can I just cut straight from the sawmill and use once they are dry?
LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

BillyB

LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

YellowHammer

Quote from: BillyB on December 29, 2016, 09:52:19 PM
Thank you for the information. I cut a little over 1,100 stickers last week. I made a sticker bin today. The bin is 16' long, 4' deep, and 4' high. I should be able to pack about 4000 stickers in there. When I get time, I will make some of the H profile stickers. Do you recommend planing the stickers down to 3/4 or can I just cut straight from the sawmill and use once they are dry?
Good stickers make good lumber.  I always run my stickers through a planer, if they are not already planed, at least on one side, after they are dry, to get them to a constant thickness.  Considering that stickers may be reused several times, it makes sense to get them right.  With a decent planer, running stickers goes very fast, planing as fast as I can load.   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Brian_Rhoad

I cut short logs for stickers. 3' or 4' long. Let the boards dry and then plane them to 3/4". Then rip them to 1 1/4" wide. It is a lot faster to plane boards than to plane the stickers.

BillyB

Got my H profile stickers milled and cut about 110 BD FT of cedar this afternoon. Thanks for all your advice! 


  

 
LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

As there are water soluble chemicals in cedar, do not use these stickers on light colored woods.  Perhaps after several uses on cedar, you can use them on darker woods safely.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

BillyB

LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

BillyB

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on December 31, 2016, 06:16:43 AM
As there are water soluble chemicals in cedar, do not use these stickers on light colored woods.  Perhaps after several uses on cedar, you can use them on darker woods safely.

So does that mean the cedar sticks will absorb moisture from the fresh cut lighter wood and create fungi between and lumber and stickers?
LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Not likely that they will contribute to fungal activity.  The issue with staining is that dark colored chemicals will leach out of the cedar sticks, leaving a sticker mark.  It is not traditional sticker stain.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

BillyB

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on December 31, 2016, 07:31:20 AM
Not likely that they will contribute to fungal activity.  The issue with staining is that dark colored chemicals will leach out of the cedar sticks, leaving a sticker mark.  It is not traditional sticker stain.

I assume maple would be a good species for stacking sticks, what about cypress, hickory or pecan?
LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

xlogger

I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

YellowHammer

Quote from: xlogger on January 01, 2017, 10:26:35 AM
I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
I never noticed any ill effects from ERC as far as stain, but the biggest problem I've had is that the ERC is pretty fragile and the stickers crqck after several uses. 
I prefer cherry, oak and poplar stickers. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Cazzhrdwd

Quote from: YellowHammer on January 01, 2017, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: xlogger on January 01, 2017, 10:26:35 AM
I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
I never noticed any ill effects from ERC as far as stain, but the biggest problem I've had is that the ERC is pretty fragile and the stickers crqck after several uses. 
I prefer cherry, oak and poplar stickers.

Poplar and Oak work good for me. YH I suppose you're using a Dado on your table saw to cut the grooves?
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Peter Drouin

Mine are R&W Oak. No H . With Pine and Hemlock it doesn't care.


 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

YellowHammer

Quote from: Cazzhrdwd on January 01, 2017, 10:33:22 PM
Quote from: YellowHammer on January 01, 2017, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: xlogger on January 01, 2017, 10:26:35 AM
I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
I never noticed any ill effects from ERC as far as stain, but the biggest problem I've had is that the ERC is pretty fragile and the stickers crqck after several uses. 
I prefer cherry, oak and poplar stickers.

Poplar and Oak work good for me. YH I suppose you're using a Dado on your table saw to cut the grooves?

Yes, here's a video of me making a mess of them.  The powerfeed is running on high, a little over a hundred feet per minute with a 5 hp table saw.  I salvage my kiln dried lower grade boards, scraps, and trimmings and rip them all to width, then dado them by the palletfull.  A multi head molder would be the ultimate way to make these, and I even considered buying and setting one up just for this purpose, but haven't found an inexpensive used one yet. 

It's hard to explain the frustrating feeling of breaking down a pile of dried wood only to find sticker stain stripes that go so deep they won't plane out, knowing of all the wasted work and effort that went into getting the logs, sawing the boards, sticking the piles, air drying, or kiln drying it and ending up with the dreaded zebra wood.  As I said before, good stickers make good wood, but bad stickers will ruin it. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcrfH66gBI4
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

teakwood

How many passes did you have to make on a table saw to get that wide groove?  a sawblade is just 3/16 thick
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

SlowJoeCrow

Looks like he is using a dado blade in the table saw.

BillyB

Quote from: SlowJoeCrow on January 04, 2017, 08:06:18 AM
Looks like he is using a dado blade in the table saw.

I use a 1/2" dado cutter head, or Yellow Hammer mentioned a molder; that would be the fastest way.
LT-15, Stihl MS880, MSC362, 72" Grandberg, Kubota M8546

Cazzhrdwd

I've tried to run them through the molder, four feet long and 3/4 inch just doesn't do well. If I kept them long it work great but I'm cutting mine out of edgings so they get cut to four feet when green. If they're perfectly straight they run through fine, but any bow or warp and they catch on everything!!
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

YellowHammer

I'm using a half inch wide stacked dado head cutting the groove on one pass per side.  This leaves 1/8" left per leg of the H and a 1/8 inch center.  The power feed is a one hp running on high, and significant dust collection is a must because the waste coming off the saw is chips instead of sawdust and can pile up in a hurry.  The nice thing about a powerfeed is that it's set angled slightly inboard to the saw fence so pulls everything that way, even warped of crooked stickers get fed or forced in against the fence to keep the groove centered.  We've made many, many pallets of stickers using this method but it is mind numbing. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

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