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band blades

Started by jimmy, January 28, 2004, 09:11:09 AM

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jimmy

I have a timberking 1600 mill that i purchased 2 weeks ago and i need to get more band blades. Do i have to buy the timberking brand which are 25.00 a blade or can i use other blades like the simonds red streak blades that are around 16.00?  Is there other good brands out there?

Minnesota_boy

Yes you can use other brands of blades on your Timberking.  Most manufacturers of bands can make them to fit.  Make sure that you oreder for the brand and model you have.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Swede

Jimmy;

The diameter and distance between centers of Your bandwheels ar important but perhaps the supplier knows what dimesions is for Your mill. Here You can get the blades I prefer (silicone steel)

http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/scragg.html
There is a lot to read about blades too.

Munkfors is an other well-known manufacture. I don´t know where You can by them there.
Both are Swedish but very different

Swede..
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

ronwood

Jimmy,

I use Woodmizer Double Hard Blades. They are a sponsor of this website.

Kenne-Saw who also is a sponsor of the forum carries the MunkforsSagar. A number of the forum members are using them.

Woodmizer Resharp program for sharping their blades is pretty handy if you don't have a sharpener.

Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

woodchip

Call Coleman Sawmill Supply@1-800-459-4626.

Jeff

I'd go with a forum sponsor. :) Thanks for those remarks Ronwood!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

slowzuki

Does monkey saver blades = MunkforsSagar blades?

QuoteJimmy,

Kenne-Saw who also is a sponsor of the forum carries the MunkforsSagar. A number of the forum members are using them.


DeepWoods

Jimmy,
I too have a new mill (Norwood) and  am new to this forum.  I took the advise give here by several other members and called Kenne-Saw.  After talking to David, he recommended I use a 3/4 pitch blade for use in softwoods.  I mentioned that I had heard of the Monkey Saver Blades on this forum and asked real nice if he could send me a complimentary blade for me to try out.  I just received my free blade today, and will try it out as soon as I get the chance.  From what I read here, I won't be dissapointed.  Give Kenne-Saw a call, even the call is free.
It don't get any better than that.
Oh, find out the length of your band before you call them, they need to know as they cut to size for your mill.
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

jimmy

has anybody out there tried the simonds red streak band blades?

Tom

Yep, and I like them.  I have used Simond Red streaks on my LT40 for about 7 years.

D._Frederick

Tom,

Give me a guess, how many hours run time do you get out of a blade before it breaks on the Lt 40? What about the blue machine, is there a longer life?

Tom

There is really not much comparison.  The woodmizer blade is 13' 2" and the other is 17' 4" .  The smaller blade is driven by 24 horses and the longer one by 38 horses.  

I ran a test a couple of years ago and found that shorter blade was producing more wood in its life but the longer blade was producing more wood per sharpening.  I got more sharpenings from the smaller blade than the larger one which told me that the smaller blade wasn't under as much stress.  I did the test with the same blade manufacturer on each saw.  I no longer have the numbers.

The smaller blade was producing 600 to 800 BF per sharpening with occasional 400 or 1000 BF instances.
I got 4 to 6 sharpenings before breakage. Usually toward the 6 range.sometimes many more but I figured that as an exceptional blade.

I sawed 1300 to 1500 BF per day with some days going as high as 2000 BF.  1300 was the most common.  I did this on 2 and sometimes 3 blades a day.
 

The longer blade was producing 600 to 1000 ft per sharpening  with occasional 400 and more frequent 1300 BF instances. I was getting 3 to 4 sharpenings before breakage and sometimes 2. Three was the most frequent.

I sawed 2000 Bf per day frequently with ranges of 1500 to 2500 BF on usually 2 blades per day with some days getting me into the third blade.  


The smaller mill had hydraulics but no dragbacks .
The larger mill had faster hydraulics and dragbacks.

Log handling on the larger mill was much quicker.

It's a difficult thing to compare blade life and production on two different mills. It's not always the blades performance that produces the most wood.

Bro. Noble

I have used red streak blades on our wood mizer and resaw.

We use 3/4 pitch on the resaw and 7/8 on the WM.  They are my first choice of the resaw and would be for the WM if they came in .45 thickness.  I plan to try the Munksfors Sagar blades on each the next time I order.

The only objection I have to 3/4 pitch blades is that it seems like it takes forever to sharpen them.  Our resaw uses 15'1" blades.  I use our WM sharpener on them with only minor adjustments.  I had been doing this for a couple of years before I found out you couldn't do that :D :D
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Kirk_Allen

Tom,
I have been using the WM double hards and I am changing the blade approximatly every 500 BF even if it seems to be cutting good.   This is based on what little information I have read regarding long term blade life.  

I have 30 blades that I got with the mill that I have been tracking and they are now on their 6th resharp from WM.  

My question is : Is it common for blades (any brand) to break after 5-6 sharpenings?  How many sharpenings is common?  I know it will vary with species etc., but if you had to pick an average what would you say?

I broke one blade last week.  It was right out of the box from being resharpened and I didnt get 3' into the cut before BANG.

I have only had a total of 3 blades break so far.  The first two were from letting the blade get hot.  


Swede

Tom;

Very intresting! I have to think all day about this. I´m a so curious person so  I even have to know why :)  Thank You!

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Kirk_Allen

Does anyone have a prefernce on where you send your blades for Re-sharp?  

I am going to try the MonksforSager blades but since I dont have my own sharpening system I will need to have them sent out to be done.

WM will only sharpen their own blades so thats not an option.

Thanks

Fla._Deadheader

  Kirk, I pay $18.00 each for Munks and they are 15' 8" long. I was going to use Jim (Solidwoods), but, haven't seen him on the forum and he hasn't answered my IM's??????  Anybody know anything about him?????  

  If I can't get in touch with him soon, I am going to buy a Cook's Sharpener and do my own. MIGHT do others too ::) ::) ::) :) :)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Fla._,
Did you give up on the sharpener you build awhile back, I thought that you were all set to grind and set your bandsaw blades?

Kirk_Allen

I spoke with Keene Saw today and they told me to contact Coleman's Sawmill supply?  Not sure why since they supply Coleman's with blades.

The MonksfordSager price I got from Coleman's was 13.75 and they have a re-sharp program of $6.00 per blade and they pay shipping them back to you.

Keene-saw quoted me $15 per blade with no re-sharp service.

I guess I am going to give these "Monkey Saver" blades a try.


Bigdogpc

FDH:  I've got a box of blades coming back from Jim right now.  Just from talking to him I figure I will be tickled with the results.  I don't know about this IM stuff...I sent him an email.

I started with Timberking Ultra blades on my 1220.  They cut everything I threw at them.  I tried a free blade from Suffolk and wasn't too impressed.  I am now pricing/looking at blades but if I don't find something that cuts as good or better than the Ultra's, I'll bite the bullet and pay the big bucks! :D

I toyed with the idea of building a sharpener from a chainsaw grinder.  I won't do that as long as I can get my reharpening done right at a reasonable rate.  I'd rather spend my time cutting wood...my two cents.

Fla._Deadheader

BigDog, ya got his e-mail address handy???  I got 20 blades to ship him.
   NOW I remember what happened. ::) ::) ::) My server won't allow the e-mail to be sent to him ??????????  JEFF!!!! HELP ?????  How do I get this puter to let me do what I want to do ????????

  BigDog, Check the Events Forum later today. I will post some stuff about the Gathering in April.

  "D". That sharpener worked OK for the softer Suffolk blades. These Munks are harder and I would rather have someone with some "Sperense" do them for me. We have waaaaayyyy too much to do when we get home from camp.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Bigdogpc

FDH:  I just sent Jim an email and told him to get hold of ya.  Maybe things will work right from him to you....  I don't understand all this stuff I think I know about 'puters! ;D

Kirk_Allen

Bigdog,
Who is this "Jim" your referring to regarding getting blades sharpened?  I read back through this post but couldn't figure it out.  

In regards to sharpening, I did send WM a question that I'm not real clear on.  On their web site it states the following:

"Take advantage of Wood-Mizer's Re-Sharp service. We specialize in thin-kerf, narrow band blade manufacturing and sharpening. No one can match our experience or attention to detail. And we'll sharpen your blades twice for what the competition charges you to sharpen your blades once."
.

Now I can say I have been very please with their service but they are not sharpening two blades to the cost of one, unless I'm really missing something.  Any thoughts?

Fla._Deadheader

  Kirk, I believe what WM is saying is, they will sharpen THEIR blades and get twice the life for you, compared to others re-sharp companies. They will NOT sharpen other brands of blades.

  Check out "Solidwoods" in the member section. He has been sawing and sharpening for many years. I can't get my puter to send him an e-mail. I guess there is a "Blocker" on my puter that rejects his server. ???  I'm no puter genius either ::) ::)

  Thanks BigDog.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Bro. Noble

I've seen Coleman's advertisements in magazines.  They appear to have excellent prices on the Monksford as well as Red Streak blades.  I plan to try them.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

cut2size

 All this talk about sharpening "monkey" blades.  I have been sharpening them on my woodmizer semi-auto sharpener for 2 years with no problem,  In fact I think that they sharpen and definately set easier than woodmizer blades.  I use WM standard cam and wheel and could not be more delighted with the results.
David
cut2size

Fla._Deadheader

Thanks for the info, "cut". How's come it took ya so long to clue us in??? :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

RevCant

When I was running the bandsaw mill, I figured on 4 sharpenings per blade (using WMs).  Everything after that was bonus.  I also figured on using 4 blades per day.  In other words, a day of sawing cost me a blade.  WMs were $22.50 then.  I tried some other blades, but I liked WMs service.  I also sharpened my own.
By the way, I was cleaning up the shop today and found a box of 1 1/2 10/30 .050 blades.  They look sharp and should still have some life left in them.  These were ReSharped by WM.  Let me know if anyone is interested - I'll work ya out a sweet deal ;D.

RevCant
If cows could only tail....

Dave_Fullmer

I just bought a box of monkey saver blades from Cooks.  I like their propaganda about how they set the tension in the blades depending on which way the saw cuts.  My saw cuts opposite direction from WM  The price for 14' 6" was just over $16 ea.  I sure like the way they cut.
If it aint Orange (AC that is) it won't run.

Fla._Deadheader

Hi Dave. I wasn't aware that Cooks sold MunkforsSager Blades. I thought they sold Lenox???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

gmmills

cut2size,
   Would you be so kind as to tell me which style cam you are using, 9/29 or 10/30. I thought about trying MunkforsSager's but didn't want buy a cam until I see how they saw. Thanks.
  
  As a side note ,for any you out there having problems with blades not cutting rightand you know they are properly sharpened and set check out this Info. GO to Cookssaw.com and click on articles and read the article titled Information on Bandsaw Blades. This info is very helpful in diagnosing blade problems. It help me from pulling my hair out many times.
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

cut2size

My cam has a J on the front, no numbers on the back, I just took it off to see.  I have a 1030B cam as well.  I think that the J cam is the one that came with the sharpener.  I use a dual tooth setter from Suffolk that is the easiest and best setter on the market
I just looked in the book and both cams were supplied by WM. The J cam is now called the 1029, I guess.
David
cut2size

gmmills

cut2size,
  Thanks alot for checking that out for me. I do have both WM cams . I guess there is no reason now not to try the MunkforsSagar's now.


Thanks again.  
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

Swede

A friend of mine use Munkfors-blades  four hours and then sharpen them himself manually with a diamond disc on a sharpener Oregon-type. He sharpens them  7 to 12 times and do it before they cut badly or breakes. He throw them away because the material in blade is lost, usaly not because of breaking.
I have to visit him soon. :)

He get his sawmill new 1991 or -92 and use it 500-800 hours a year. It resembles Amerika-Sågen, (4-post saw unit) not hanging just one side of the log ......... ;D
He have change the motor once and some blade guides.

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Dave_Fullmer

Harold,
Cooks is offering several brands.  When I called them, they listed them, but after reading about your success with the Monksfordsager, I told them to send me 10.  So far thats all I have used.  I got 5 blades from Burgs that are the Lennox but I haven't put one on yet.  I guess since Tom pointed out that I was a blade test technician, I better make a comparison test.  :D :D :D  I pass on the dog cut test though.

Dave.
If it aint Orange (AC that is) it won't run.

Fla._Deadheader

Hope they work as well for you as they do for us.

  Finally got ahold of Jim and sent the blades out today. If they do as well after he sharpens them, we will definitely have a winner.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

RMay

Fia.-Deadheader what thickness & pitch & hook angle  are you using on the monksfordsaager  blades cutting heart pine ::)
RMay in Okolona Arkansas  Sawing since 2001 with a 2012 Wood-Miser LT40HDSD35-RA  with Command Control and Accuset .

Fla._Deadheader

 1¼ " X .041 X 7/8P X 10° Hook Angle.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ronwood

Fla._Deadheader,

I spoke to this gentleman's wife sometime ago. He sharpen's a number of manufactures blades. He might be of some help.

JORDAN'S BAND SAW SERVICE
198 WAKULLA LA.
RINGGOLD, GA 30736
CHRIS: 877-313-4078 TOLL FREE

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Kirk_Allen

Fla::
I got a call from the head Blade guy at Wood Mizer today regarding my question on the Two Sharps for others one price.

WM apologized and agreed the information on the site is not accurate and misleading.  What they mean to say is: They sharpen the blades twice before sending them back.  Once before the set and again after the set. So they conclude that your blade got sharpened twice for that $6.50 charge.

Now I'm no rocket scientist but if there sharpening it twice each time I send them in doesn't that shorten blade life?

They said other sharpening services will either set the tooth and then sharpen or sharpen then set.  According to WM neither way ensures consistent blade sharpness/set for each side of the blade.

Not having done any of my own sharpening it sounds good but not sure what the "real" best way is to do it.

I still think that blade life is shortened with each sharpening.

Any input as to what is the best way to sharpen/set band saw blades?



Minnesota_boy

Woodmizers second sharpening is really a fine touch to get the edge back after deburring and setting, i believe.  Sure it removes a bit of material, but such a tiny amount that is doesn't make much difference to the lifetime of a blade.  In fact, it may prolong the blades lifetime because it gets rid of any tiny cracks that may form in the gullet.  The cracks in the bottom of the gullet grow larger quickly leading to a broken blade.

I've been finding that the blades coming back from resharp often cut better than a new blade as the edge is that much sharper.  It makes the tough sawing much more fun when the blade is super sharp.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Fla._Deadheader

 I guess I have to agree with Minn-boy. One sharpen may not be razor sharp and after setting with the sharp blade, I could see where it might be sharper. I did not like the WM blade, because it was not RAZOR sharp. ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

x-,
I set then sharpen because it saves me time and labor.  You will find people who are adamant about the way they do it, set and sharpen or sharpen and set.

While I prefer to set and sharpen, it's for two reasons.  One described above and the other is to make sure that the face grind produces a surface that is 90 degrees to the direction of blade travel and a tooth point that is level on top, 90 degrees to the blade body and a very sharp edge.

Most sharpening procedures take very little surface from the blade.  A second sharpening would be akin to stropping a razor or honing a knife.  If the blade is sharpened and then set, the face of the tooth may not be square and the tip of the tooth will not be square because the tooth was bent and may have twisted some in the process.  A second sharpening would square the tooth up.



Set - Sharpen / Sharpen - Set

The life of a blade may actually be extended by sharpening, if it is properly done.  Blades lose life more by being used when dull, too fast sawing speed (stresses the body), too slow sawing speed (minimizes board foot production per sharpening) and improper storage.

Here is a link to EZ's previous sharpening thread. EZ's thread

Kirk_Allen

I am on my knees bowing down in worship 8)

I am absolutely amazed with the volume of knowledge on this site.

My hats off to all those who have made this such an awsome site.  

I think even after the Daytona 500 starts my homepage will be FF instead of Nascar ;D  

Tom, Thanks so much for the info.  Its been a big help.

One thing that is so amazing with this site is that even once you questions are answered, it leads to more questions.

Anyone using the  Dinasaw sharpening system?

Minnesota_boy

Out of the hundreds of blades I've sent back to resharp, one must have had a tiny crack in a gullet that they missed.  I sawed for a while on it and could hear a faint noise that didn't sound right.  Stopped and looked hard at the blade and finally found the crack, about 1/8 inch long.  figured the blade was shot anyway, so I kept on sawing until it broke.  It took about a half-hour for that to happen.  Noise kept getting louder as the crack grew.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

RMay

Fla.-Deadheader thanks I was looking at Kenne Saw  site and was wondering which one you was using on pine all I have used is WM 045 by 10 degrees  ::)
RMay in Okolona Arkansas  Sawing since 2001 with a 2012 Wood-Miser LT40HDSD35-RA  with Command Control and Accuset .

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