Cat 51 hp. Headless cat

[petefrom bearswamp]

Well here is this perkapillar thread again.
Timely for me.
Got lazy and didnt fix the leaking pan problem when I was down for the winter.
A couple of days ago oil started dripping on the boards from a leak in the drive side of the pan. Tried tightening the bolts which was a nightmare and it got worse.
temporary fix is rags stuffed in the space there to catch the oil while I finish a small job today.
Guess I will be down for a period of time now to finally address this issue and check on the head gasket thing too.
I had the support kit installed last year.
My neighbor has over 4000 hrs on his 51 engine with no problems of any mechanical kind with the engine, no support kit.
No anti perkapillar rant this time but it has crossed my mind often.

[slider]

Marty that one failed in a lifter gallery just like mine . When i pulled the pan to move the bung to the bottom of the pan , where it should have been to start with i found lots of gunk . I am so glad that i took the time to pull that pan and look.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
    Yes taking off the oil pan may be a great idea. This engine also has black sawdust along the injector side of the pan. It will get a gasket also.

I had a time to get the alternator belt to align and the belt tensioner. Another note. The alternator tensioner will look fine until you run the engine. I always check this and take measures. Just about every one I shim the alternator pulley out about 1/16". On this engine I shimmed the bracket out with two 3/8 washers to get the belt to go where it should. I will get some pictures.

I called the owner, he said the person who he purchased the mill from had a small leak in the radiator and had added stop leak. : As much money as it takes to replace and engine I would refrain from using stop leak.

Marty

[petefrom bearswamp]

Today's the day.
Brought the mill down from the mill site yesterday and pressure washed the whole shebang.
Was able to shine sunlight in with a mirror and thank goodness all was dry below the crankshaft, so it is definitely the oil pan gasket.
Wish I had done this before I had the brg support installed.
my friend and my son are coming to do the work while I hand them wrenches and run other errands.
Tried Perkins for the gasket but couldn't decipher their web site and there was no phone # on it.
Then tried Foley engine, the guy was very friendly and called me back in about an hr informing that the individual gaskets were no longer available from Perkins, but would gladly sell me a kit for about $250 bucks.
Then Eureka! I called Milton Cat in Syracuse and they had the gasket for 20 bucks.
To be continued.
Wish me luck

[petefrom bearswamp]

Forgot to mention WM doesnt carry parts for the perkapillar according to WM northeast

[petefrom bearswamp]

SUCCESS!!
My pal Dickopedia, my son and I removed the engine in 3 Hrs not ever having done it before so we were really careful thanks to my friend Dick.
I took lots of pics so we could re install the wiring and fuel lines etc.
Couldnt believe how easy it was except the bearing from the brg support kit took a little finegeling to remove but came off OK .
Got it done at about 3;30PM.
Put a lot of the old fashioned permatex form a gasket on the pan , gasket and block.
Super glad I put a 1100 pound hoist on a beam in my shop last winter.
Wont put oil in until Monday AM to be sure that the permarex cures.

 

[Magicman]

Friends and Sons are better than whatever is in second place.  ;D

[petefrom bearswamp]

Lynn so true!

[Peter Drouin]

Good job.

[petefrom bearswamp]

It initially looked like more than we wanted to tackle but once started was a cinch.

[hunz]

Thanks to Marty and this thread, I decided to replace my head gasket as a preventative measure. My 51hp perkapillar wasn't showing any signs, whatsoever, of it being blown. Well......it WAS blown in between two cylinders! Sure glad I decided to do it, otherwise it may have been a piece of scrap metal in the near future. My engine is a 2006, and has 3,300hrs on it. Maintenance has been done religiously, oil changes, air filter, fuel filter every 100hrs. About 6 months back, I popped the oil fill cap to see if I noticed any carbon deposits. At the time I saw none partly because the deposit was at the far end of the valve cover where I couldn't see.
  My recommendation to anyone with this engine with the old style head gasket is this... Just replace it, and save yourself buying a new engine. 90% chance it's blown based on my hillbilly statistical analyses.

Anyone ever find out if you can drop the oil pan without removing the engine?

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
   You will need to raise the engine to remove the oil pan. It is not a big job "  No Fear" lifting the engine will be the biggest challenge.

I hope this helps. Like you said if there are no signs of the gasket being blown when it fails it damages the engine most times it is not repairable .

Marty

[petefrom bearswamp]

The oil pickup tube and screen hangs well down in the pan about 2/3 of the way toward the fan end,

(see the very poor pic) but I doubt you can do it without either removing the engine as we did or just raising it as Marty suggests, plus we didnt trust my hoist completely so removed it and put saw horses under the engine in addition to the hoist.
We decided to remove it as werent sure there was enough slack in the various wires to get the engine high enough to work on.
Another thing, the cat manual that came with the mill indicates 10.3 qts of oil, but this way overfilled the engine.
I use 8qts.

[hunz]

Well thanks for the feedback guys, I cranked it up today(haven't dropped the pan yet) just to make sure everything was working right, with no leaks.
  Pete, yup, I've discovered the 8 quarts to fill as well. The fluid capacity in the WM manual is just a few quarts off haha.
  Marty you mention most times the engine can't be repaired....do you mean scored pistons or warped head? I checked my cylinder head per the service manual with the feeler gauge and straight edge, and everything checked out. The cylinder bores still had the cross hatching too. One thing I did notice, is that the engine pops off quicker on start up, so I definitely think that bad gasket was robbing me of compression.
  So on the pickup tube, am I basically just looking to make sure it's not all clogged up with carbon? Did you guys pull it, brake clean it, and reinstall? Thanks.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
  There are two different oil pans. The 62 hp is 11 qt and the 51 hp is 8 qt.

Marty

[ShowMeSawyer]

Does the head gasket for the 51 hp Cat come as a set or by itself? Any one have the part number handy for the gasket? My WM with the 51 hp Cat is a 2005 model.

Thanks,
SMS

[MartyParsons]

Hello, 
    I have never purchased a Gasket Set. It always comes as one head gasket. The other gaskets or o - rings can be reused. 
Marty

[jaciausa]

I have decided to replace the head gasket on our 2005, 1400 hr machine. I did saw a few logs, but could not forget the head problem. I had promised to saw for a friend some logs he had brought before I knew of this problem. I did buy the complete gasket set.
  I am planning on lifting the motor to inspect the oil pump and replace gasket. 
This being a cat-perkins motor is the confusing part about getting the proper manual. I found the gasket set on maxi-force and ordered from dealer. Its listed under the cat section 3024c. The manual I downloaded is for a 3024C Engine for Caterpillar Built Machines. What is the proper shop manual to use for the torques, valves etc.?

[slider]

Huntz , i was just thinking of how much carbon you found when you pulled the head. 

Mine failed at the lifter bore and it was so bad i had trouble getting the push rod out. That's why i pulled the pan . It meant pulling the engine but it was a good thing i did. check out reply#34.

This may not be the case with you i hope. Also moving that drain bung to the center of the pan allowed me to drain all the oil instead of leaving over 2 quarts in the pan after each service was worth it for me. Good luck. al

[jaciausa]

Marty,or any of you have went thru this ordeal. Are there any special tools or correct way to remove injectors from head?
Also,I plan on taking a picture of old head gasket to show condition.If it has not failed between the cylinders like so many of theses motors have, there is no reason to remove pan gasket?
If there is some carbon or failure of gasket how is the carbon safely removed?I have the procedure from book to inspect oil pump. Thanks

[MartyParsons]

Hello 
Nothing special for tools to remove injectors. You may need to use a propane torch to heat the paint on the nut holding the return tube . The fitting at the injectors are very fragile and the nut will stick to the tube and bend . 

I do remove the oil pan if nessary . Judgement call. 
Marty

[jaciausa]

Hello, Thanks for the advice on the lines to the injectors. We have disassembled and got this back together. Need to change coolant and it is about ready to start. The head gasket had not failed and there was no carbon present in the head or valve cover. 
With no carbon and the head gasket intake I think pulling the pan would not be needed! I was not looking forward to raising or removing the engine. We dide have some building scaffold we placed around the engine so we could be at the best height.
 The Cat manual talked about a tool-A for the injectors. This was really a sealant that is used around the injector. We did find a non setting Loctite that is possibly the same. Hopefully we can get it running tomorrow and put this nightmare behind us.
 

[slider]

Not a nightmare any more just preventive maintenance . now you can sleep well . 

Thanks again to marty for starting this thread . It probably saved my cat.