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General Forestry => Chainsaws => Topic started by: Sadlerracing529 on January 20, 2019, 07:08:41 PM

Title: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 20, 2019, 07:08:41 PM
Hey everyone, new to the forum here and new to chainsaws.
I am looking for recommendations on a good saw for my needs.
I have just very light work to do around home, and i have some clearing to do and trees to cut down and turn into firewood on my hunting land. And when i buy my next house in the next couple years i plan to heat with wood so the saw would need to stand up to that amount of use as well.
I dont have much experience and have only owned one cheap junk saw and cut down a handful of trees.
I have been looking at a Stihl Ms 271 farm boss or the Husqvarna rancher but just looking for advice either for or against these saws as i dont know if they would be the best fit for my purpose and am trying to learn.
Thanks in advance everyone
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 20, 2019, 07:36:02 PM
           First and foremost, welcome to the forum!  :) You came to the right place, as were all here to help out, and to give you the info you need to pick your first saw.   I see you have run a saw but not a lot, correct?   I would start out on the smaller side 35-45cc, or maybe a 50cc to start with, then work up to a larger one as you see the need and get more experience.   You have your hunting land I take it, so do you know how big the trees are that you might be cutting so we will know what size saw to recommend to you?  What is your price range you would be willing to spend?  What brands do your local dealers carry?  Sounds like Stihl is one.   Give us alittle more info so we can give you some recommendations.  ;)
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: DDW_OR on January 20, 2019, 07:49:28 PM
Stihl, Husqvarna, and Echo are my recommendations.
I have the following
Homelite - 120v electric
homelite 4618c - gas
husqvarna 45
jonsereds 81
poulan 1420 14 inch
Echo CS-310
the ones i grab when going into the woods are the Echo and husqvarna, in that order.
the Homelite 120v is used at the mill.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Southside on January 20, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Welcome to the Forum.  As was mentioned budget is one important component here, sometimes it is better to get "less" saw if the quality is a step up over the option.  Dealer support is huge.  It's not only who sells what, but who can actually work on what they sell and will they stand behind their product.  I am a Husky guy for that exact reason as I have a great dealer nearby.  

Something in the 50 cc range will give you nice options on bar length that should fit you needs and not break the bank, while giving you good longevity with basic maintenance.  The old adage that "there is no replacement for displacement" holds true with saws.  
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Old Greenhorn on January 20, 2019, 08:03:54 PM
A hearty welcome to the Forum! You are in a good spot and ask a good question. First let me say if you fill out some of your profile information the smart folks here will have an idea of where you are, etc. and be able to provide a little better advice.
 I think for what you describe, a 50cc class saw would be your best all around saw to get started as wild hinted at. The rancher falls in this category for sure, I don't know much of Stihls. You want something as light as possible that will do the work you need. 60-70cc is a bit much for bucking and felling UNLESS you are dropping some really big trees. Optimally, a 50cc saw will have around an 18" bar with 20" being about the max. This will get you into some pretty big trees. I use a 50cc myself, but have been encountering some fairly large trees occasionally and am looking at a 70 cc for those 'once in a while trees', perhaps a clone. But that's me.
 For you, take your time, ask questions, make sure you understand the answers you get ( I didn't when I bought my first saw, just thought I did). The things that are important to you a year form now, won't be things you even thought about when you bought that first saw. Chain pitch, bar length, gauge, electronics, tuning, adjustable bar oil pump, may never matter to you, or they might matter a lot, as they did for me when I honed in on what I really needed and wanted.
 Finally, use the search feature here on the forums and plug in the model numbers of the saws you are looking at. It will give you a wealth of information, both good and bad. There is a ton of info buried here and many people with unique knowledge. You will get out what you put in. If you participate in the conversation, you will be gaining  more knowledge. If you just read the advice offered and don't respond, the value may be limited. Just my 2 cents. Again, welcome and enjoy the group.  8)
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: lxskllr on January 20, 2019, 08:08:17 PM
I've said before I'm fond of 20cc steps between saw classes. I'd try to anticipate the future, and build around that. If you were to get my saws, I'd start you with my echo cs400, then later when you need something bigger, you'd get my Stihl 362cm.


If you were to start with a 50cc saw, which isn't the worst idea in the world, especially for a homeowner who will only have one saw, it puts you in an awkward position to expand. Holding my 20cc plan; going down puts you at 30cc which is too small for general use imo. It's nice having a light saw for limbing and stuff, but it's kinda extravagant if you're trying to conserve money. Going up puts you at 70cc which is a pretty beefy saw, and may be overkill for your intended purposes.


I like both of my listed saws a lot, but of course they aren't the only good ones out there. You'll want to stick with brands that have good dealer support where you're at/will be.


Just some general musings, and it all hinges on my 20cc concept which may be bollocks, but something to consider, and see if you think there's value in it.


edit:
To expand on why I think 20cc increments is a good idea...

Saws 20cc apart can reasonably do the work of adjoining saws at each end, so there's no gaps. For infrequent use, a 60cc saw can do the work of a 40 or an 80 cc saw. If that infrequent use becomes more frequent, you can then get a new saw to reliably cover that scenario.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Inaotherlife on January 20, 2019, 08:28:39 PM
I ran a Stihl 009L, that I bought used, for years as my only saw. Came with 14 and 16 inch bars and I cut all manner of stuff with that saw.
A great size and weight, and as long as your not running any races it would cut way beyond it's size.

I agree with a couple of other posters.

I'd put the 50 to 60 cc saw on the backburner until you actually get that house that your going to heat with wood and get a lightweight 35 to 40 cc saw to start.
This would fit your very light trimming and trail work better, and you'll still enjoy having the smaller saw even after you have the need for a larger one.

I'd look at Echo and Makita as well as Stihl and Husky.

I like buying new saws. But wouldn't rule out buying used if you can find a clean lightly used saw for around half the price.
Just be sure to check all the common wear items like filter, bar, chain, and sprocket as these items can quickly turn what seemed a good deal into expenses that bring that used saw back near the cost of a new one.

Also, I probably wouldn't choose a Rancher or a 271, as these saws are heavy for their class.
I like lightweight for displacement.
My 50cc saw is an Echo CS-490 that's almost 2 pounds lighter than the 271.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: DDW_OR on January 20, 2019, 10:12:46 PM
also invest in a GOOD chain sharpener.

the saw only cuts as good as the chain.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: firefighter ontheside on January 20, 2019, 11:05:22 PM
For a first saw, I would recommend a Stihl MS251.  It's a great size saw.  Not too heavy, but a strong saw.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Hooterspfld on January 20, 2019, 11:35:03 PM
I'm gonna vote for Stihl MS250 and start out with a 16" bar. This will most likely do most of what you'll be looking for at a pretty fair price. Take in mind if you buy a saw new or used and take care of it, it's fairly easy to get rid of it without losing a signifigant amount of your investment. I also don't ever like going cutting with only one saw. So say you start with the MS250 and move up to a 271 or 362, you're probably not going to get rid of the 250, keep it on hand to do what it's capable of doing and as a backup. Just my 2 cents. I started with a couple 250's, next the 362, and now have a 661, but thats for milling which is a whole different animal. 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Ianab on January 21, 2019, 01:37:22 AM
Size of your trees matters. Locally we tend to have larger trees, so my first new saw was a MS310 / 20" bar. Basic firewood / farm saw here. It's not a "great" saw, but it's been 100% reliable, and if it's not cutting right, it needs a sharpen. 

Because of the larger trees, I ended up buying a Dolmar 7900 (79cc) which is a "pro" grade saw. That happily runs a 28" bar, but isn't stupidly heavy to use. So I agree the 20cc gap between saws. If I buy another saw it will be a lighter (~40cc) saw for limbing and pruning.

The suggestion to buy a 50-60cc saw with an 18-20" bar are sensible. You can firewood a 3 ft dia tree with that ( with a bit of cunning and patience). But you aren't lugging around a boat anchor all day.

Sharpening kit is a MUST. The chain WILL get dull, especially when you are learning and sometimes end up cutting dirt. If you can sit down on a stump or tailgate with a file + guide and get the chain cutting right again in 5 mins, it's no big deal. 
 
Get some basic safety gear too. Forestry helmet and chaps as a minimum. 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Allar on January 21, 2019, 02:49:48 AM
Welcome to the forum  8)

Since you're new to chainsaws, i wouldn't go to 50cc right away.
Imo, 40 to 45 cc would be ideal for you.

I would say that Echo Cs-410ES might be a good choice for you.


Title: Re: First saw
Post by: ladylake on January 21, 2019, 04:43:02 AM

 Another vote for a Echo CS400, everyone likes them.. If you can pull the limiter caps and tune they can be bought new on auction site for around $225, otherwise $300 at a dealer who may or may not tune them properly. With a muff modd they cut as fast or faster than some 50cc saws.  Steve
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Air Lad on January 21, 2019, 05:01:31 AM
Some great advise here
For mine I love the Stihl ms260c
Light enough for backyard chores
Ballsy enough to take care of some larger timber and tough enough to learn and make mistakes with ( hard to break)
Awesome all round entry level machine ( not really entry level but will be around for years to come) 
And down the track a 460 etc as a step up
Cheers
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 21, 2019, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Sadlerracing529 on January 20, 2019, 07:08:41 PM
Hey everyone, new to the forum here and new to chainsaws.
I am looking for recommendations on a good saw for my needs.
I have just very light work to do around home, and i have some clearing to do and trees to cut down and turn into firewood on my hunting land. And when i buy my next house in the next couple years i plan to heat with wood so the saw would need to stand up to that amount of use as well.
I dont have much experience and have only owned one cheap junk saw and cut down a handful of trees.
I have been looking at a Stihl Ms 271 farm boss or the Husqvarna rancher but just looking for advice either for or against these saws as i dont know if they would be the best fit for my purpose and am trying to learn.
Thanks in advance everyone

            Lots of good advise here to ponder over.  But it would still be helpful if you would get back with us so we could know more about your set-up,  tree size on your property, budget, age, your physical condition, and ect.  All this is helpful to find the right saw for you, and that's what were all here for.  And as "Ianab" said, PPE is very important as well.   Looking forward for your follow up.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Inaotherlife on January 21, 2019, 10:46:13 AM
I agree with a few posters here that a CS-400 or an MS-250 would be a good all around, middle ground, starter saw.
They'll do a lot without being too big or heavy for the lighter jobs.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Old Greenhorn on January 21, 2019, 12:20:16 PM
One thing not mentioned here, but along with PPE, as a newer user, you should consider getting some training in a good program. Again, we don't know where you are, but on the east coast, mostly in the north, is a program called 'Game of Logging' which provides first class training at 4 different levels. I have been through classes with both experienced cutters that need it for certification, as well as folks who bought their first saw the night before and everyone learns something and finds it useful. If you can't find any information on it, just ask and one of us will get you pointed right. Check in with us and let us know if these comments are helpful or not.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: JohnW on January 21, 2019, 07:24:38 PM
I would recommend that you get a 50cc saw or larger, if you just have one saw and you plan to use it.  As for brand, I'd say Husqvarna, Stihl, or Echo, just get the best dealer.  Unless you're a very good mechanic, you'll need help maintaining your saw.  If you can figure out where the loggers and arborists go, go there.  You'll be amazed at the difference in dealers.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Old Greenhorn on January 21, 2019, 10:29:17 PM
I am guessing that the OP either lost interest, or is not getting anything of value to him from the information offered as he hasn't given any feedback or followup. Did we say something wrong?
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 21, 2019, 10:36:50 PM
   That's why I quit posting until I hear from him.  Maybe we will hear something out of him in a day or two. 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Inaotherlife on January 21, 2019, 10:54:39 PM
I don't know. I thought a smaller saw now and a bigger saw later was a good idea.

Who wouldn't want to have two chainsaws?
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Southside on January 21, 2019, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: Inaotherlife on January 21, 2019, 10:54:39 PMWho wouldn't want to have two chainsaws?

Maybe I need to get out more as perhaps I lead a boring life, all my saws are 372's ;D
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Inaotherlife on January 21, 2019, 11:06:39 PM
Quote from: Southside logger on January 21, 2019, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: Inaotherlife on January 21, 2019, 10:54:39 PMWho wouldn't want to have two chainsaws?

Maybe I need to get out more as perhaps I lead a boring life, all my saws are 372's ;D
Yeah, but you got all those woodmasters and woodmizers and stuff. And cows.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Air Lad on January 22, 2019, 05:53:57 AM
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on January 21, 2019, 10:29:17 PM
I am guessing that the OP either lost interest, or is not getting anything of value to him from the information offered as he hasn't given any feedback or followup. Did we say something wrong?
We said nothing wrong
Stay strong "Old Greenhorn"
There will be many more seeking advise and wishing to "chew the fat"
Cheers
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 22, 2019, 09:05:03 AM
Quote from: Air Lad on January 22, 2019, 05:53:57 AM
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on January 21, 2019, 10:29:17 PM
I am guessing that the OP either lost interest, or is not getting anything of value to him from the information offered as he hasn't given any feedback or followup. Did we say something wrong?
We said nothing wrong
Stay strong "Old Greenhorn"
There will be many more seeking advise and wishing to "chew the fat"
Cheers

Air Lad is right.  We said nothing wrong.  Us ole gezzers just get impatient. :D
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: doc henderson on January 22, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
Hey guys, I reviewed the entire post.  I think there is well rounded advice.  I know when I started, I would only sign on occasionally.  Now you cannot shut me up lol.  There have been 600 views as well, so hopefully, many others are also benefiting from this thread
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 09:43:39 AM
Sorry for the absense guys, just been really swamped at work. Thank you all for the good info. 
As for my experience, the saw ive used in the past was a 45 or 50cc 20" bar and i could handle it just fine. Just have limited number of hours behind a saw. Maybe 6 hours total. As for the size of trees ill be cutting right now are mostly 13" or so pine trees. 
I was leaning towards 50 cc and 18" bar as this just seemed right to me. 
As for brand of saw i am leaning more towards husqvarna as there are plenty of local dealers around me.
I have been looking into the husky 450 over the last few days. And i am liking what ive heard of this saw but am still open to others. Plan on buying within the next 2 weeks
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 09:48:53 AM
And yes i just read through this whole thread and looked at all of your recommendations and seems i was correct in cc and bar length. I will do some research on the saws you all listed before making a decision. Again thank you for all the advice, and my apologies for not getting back sooner
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: doc henderson on January 22, 2019, 10:00:05 AM
No worries.  We all hope to cont. to hear from you.  Training was mentioned and I was going to point out that Stihl has about 8 videos on their website.  They are called safety videos, but they are really about how to use and maintain a chainsaw. They apply to all chainsaws. Usually "safety video"  means the obvious will be stated repeatedly, but these actually have some good info.  We all like to think that our time spent on the forum is helpful to others,  so we appreciate your feedback.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 10:08:48 AM
As far as safety goes i am not going to just dive right in, I am looking into learning proper techniques and safety before dropping any trees. I enjoy my life and would like to keep enjoying it. 
As for my location and budget, i am located in south east WI, and my budget is roughly $400. And i do want new because i want to know the maintenance has been done correct and on time its whole life.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: lxskllr on January 22, 2019, 10:16:49 AM
Helmet and chaps will run you ~$150 at TractorSupply. The helmet's nice cause you get a face shield and muffs, so you'll still get value from it, even if you don't have to worry about stuff from above atm.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 11:06:46 AM
Safety gear and accessories have a budget of their own and i will be getting safety equipment. 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 22, 2019, 11:10:29 AM
    
Quote from: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 09:43:39 AM
Sorry for the absense guys, just been really swamped at work. Thank you all for the good info.
As for my experience, the saw ive used in the past was a 45 or 50cc 20" bar and i could handle it just fine. Just have limited number of hours behind a saw. Maybe 6 hours total. As for the size of trees ill be cutting right now are mostly 13" or so pine trees.
I was leaning towards 50 cc and 18" bar as this just seemed right to me.
As for brand of saw i am leaning more towards husqvarna as there are plenty of local dealers around me.
I have been looking into the husky 450 over the last few days. And i am liking what ive heard of this saw but am still open to others. Plan on buying within the next 2 weeks

Good to hear from you.   With that size wood,  a 50cc would be aplenty, and would tackle even bigger wood if needed.    A 445, or 450 as you stated, would make a nice entry saw in your price range.  Take the time to look at other brand options as well.  You might find a 50cc with more features within your price point with another brand.  Check them out as well, and try to buy from a dealer if possible, to get support when you need, and you will need it when it needs maint.  Keeping a sharp chain is  preventive maint   Nothing harder on a saw then running with a dull chain.  Get a good filing guide, and use good fresh mix at all times. Clean air filter regular.  I've rambled enough, and I 'll let someone else voice there opinions.  You can always ask for advice on this site at anytime, and one of us will help you. :)
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 11:52:45 AM
Thanks wild262. I should mention i have been around engines my whole life, rebuilding everything from weed whacker engines to small block chevy engines, and was a mechanic for awhile, so i will be doing my own maintenance to the saw.
I looked at the 445 as well and i feel i would regret not getting that extra little bit of power. And yes i am checking into other brands as well with saws in this category. I feel stihl vs. Husy in my area makes husky the winner here as far as dealers and local parts go. Not ruling out anything at the moment that fits the 50cc/18" bar category
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 22, 2019, 12:07:14 PM
Had a feeling you might be mechanical inclined judging by your user name.  That will sure help you.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Old Greenhorn on January 22, 2019, 12:57:09 PM
Glad you made it back! I like your choice. I have been running a husky 450 for 3 years now as my main saw with an 18" bar and it does me quite well up to about 24" trees. I love the saw, starts every time, not a lick of trouble, I just keep it clean. I run non-ethanol gas in all my tools with Sta-bil and they always run well without starting problems.
 As mentioned above I am looking at a bigger saw for occasional use, but not because of anything being wrong with my 450, just oversight in my original buy. I wish I had gotten a 20 inch bar, and I now have one to put on, just not had the time. I wish it also had an adjustable oiler.
 Not sure what training might be available in your area, but a good class can take you a long way. I am sure you can find something. Best of luck.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Old Greenhorn on January 22, 2019, 01:08:47 PM
I did find this link for you, not sure how close you will find them to you. They cover several states in your area. You will have to do a bit of legwork, but it's a start. Sounds very similar to the GOL classes I mentioned earlier. Usually you have to book a spot in these months in advance. Around her we have more candidates than class openings. Maybe the same by you.  http://sawwtraining.com/index.html 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 01:26:32 PM
Thanks Old Greenhorn, and i will look into that training link.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 01:31:03 PM
Also to keep my options open and going by the 20cc jump alot of you speak of, how would the husqvarna 440e compare to the echo cs400 and stihl ms250? Might not be a bad option to get a 40cc now and a 60cc later when i do get my next house.
Still leaning towards the 50cc for now but want to do all the research i can and truely find the best option for me.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: DDW_OR on January 22, 2019, 01:32:39 PM
Quote from: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 11:06:46 AM
Safety gear and accessories have a budget of their own and i will be getting safety equipment.
do not forget gloves

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/gloves.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1466383619)
 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: reride82 on January 22, 2019, 02:10:33 PM
My go-to saws are my 450(50cc), 372xp(72cc), and 395xp(95cc) with the 372xp being used the most. After using the 372 or 395, the 450 feels like a toy :D Granted, it can cut your leg off almost as easily as the other two ::) The only disadvantage is that 450 only has one bar mount stud, whereas if you step up to the 455 or 460 they have two bar mount studs so then when you upgrade to bigger saws, the bars are interchangeable. I didn't realize that when I replaced my old 455 with the 450. Otherwise, the 450 is a great saw.

Levi
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: maple flats on January 22, 2019, 03:17:34 PM
I think if you are leaning towards a Husky saw (excellent choice) you might do well to look at a 543XP for your first saw. It is a pro saw and can be rebuilt, the Ranchers can not. The 543XP is a lighter saw and runs a 20" or an 18" bar well. It also spins faster than a Rancher and is lighter weight.
A 543XP should last you 20 years +.
In my early days I was fooled into buying Poulan Wild Thing saws (a 20" cut). I went thru one every year for 3 years before I got smart and bought my first better saw Back in 2004. That was a Husky 359, not a pro saw, but in between a pro and a homeowner. That saw still works well, with a 20" bar but it is heavier than my 543XP and it cuts slower. (I also have 3 other Huskies, all still working like new) I have never had to retire a good quality saw, but I retired 3 of the homeowner saws.
By the way, some fine battery powered saws are out there too and ones by a bigger name manufacturer should be fine for a starter saw, but maybe not right to cut the firewood to heat a home for the season. I recently bought a DeWalt cordless, not because I thought it was the best, but because my wife wanted a cordless chainsaw and I owned over 11 good Dewalt 20V Li/ion batteries and enough chargers to keep them all charged if I ended up needing to saw all day with it. You might want to look into some of those options for a first saw.
I heartily encourage you to get proper training too. I had used a chainsaw and somehow never got hurt using it in about 35 years when I took "game of logging" training. I learned a lot in that, I only took sessions 1 and 2, 3 and 4 go into professional logging and skidder use, I did not think I needed that. When I took my course, there were 12 taking the class as I recall, all but 4 were professional loggers, I was 1 or the 4 non pro's
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: MichaelS70 on January 22, 2019, 03:23:15 PM
My first saw was a MS271 only thing id do different looking back is bought a 50cc pro saw instead of the ranch saw.Cost you more money but I think its worth the extra cash imo.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Allar on January 22, 2019, 04:31:16 PM
Quote from: maple flats on January 22, 2019, 03:17:34 PM
I think if you are leaning towards a Husky saw (excellent choice) you might do well to look at a 543XP for your first saw. It is a pro saw and can be rebuilt, the Ranchers can not. The 543XP is a lighter saw and runs a 20" or an 18" bar well. It also spins faster than a Rancher and is lighter weight.
A 543XP should last you 20 years +.
In my early days I was fooled into buying Poulan Wild Thing saws (a 20" cut). I went thru one every year for 3 years before I got smart and bought my first better saw Back in 2004. That was a Husky 359, not a pro saw, but in between a pro and a homeowner. That saw still works well, with a 20" bar but it is heavier than my 543XP and it cuts slower. (I also have 3 other Huskies, all still working like new) I have never had to retire a good quality saw, but I retired 3 of the homeowner saws.
By the way, some fine battery powered saws are out there too and ones by a bigger name manufacturer should be fine for a starter saw, but maybe not right to cut the firewood to heat a home for the season. I recently bought a DeWalt cordless, not because I thought it was the best, but because my wife wanted a cordless chainsaw and I owned over 11 good Dewalt 20V Li/ion batteries and enough chargers to keep them all charged if I ended up needing to saw all day with it. You might want to look into some of those options for a first saw.
I heartily encourage you to get proper training too. I had used a chainsaw and somehow never got hurt using it in about 35 years when I took "game of logging" training. I learned a lot in that, I only took sessions 1 and 2, 3 and 4 go into professional logging and skidder use, I did not think I needed that. When I took my course, there were 12 taking the class as I recall, all but 4 were professional loggers, I was 1 or the 4 non pro's

The only issue that i have with 543xp is that it's not made in sweden.
So can we even call it the real husqvarna..Or is it more like Husqvarna looking poulan that they used to make.

Even thought usually japanese do some high quality stuff.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 05:42:37 PM
Quote from: maple flats on January 22, 2019, 03:17:34 PM
I think if you are leaning towards a Husky saw (excellent choice) you might do well to look at a 543XP for your first saw. It is a pro saw and can be rebuilt, the Ranchers can not. The 543XP is a lighter saw and runs a 20" or an 18" bar well. It also spins faster than a Rancher and is lighter weight.
A 543XP should last you 20 years +.
In my early days I was fooled into buying Poulan Wild Thing saws (a 20" cut). I went thru one every year for 3 years before I got smart and bought my first better saw Back in 2004. That was a Husky 359, not a pro saw, but in between a pro and a homeowner. That saw still works well, with a 20" bar but it is heavier than my 543XP and it cuts slower. (I also have 3 other Huskies, all still working like new) I have never had to retire a good quality saw, but I retired 3 of the homeowner saws.
By the way, some fine battery powered saws are out there too and ones by a bigger name manufacturer should be fine for a starter saw, but maybe not right to cut the firewood to heat a home for the season. I recently bought a DeWalt cordless, not because I thought it was the best, but because my wife wanted a cordless chainsaw and I owned over 11 good Dewalt 20V Li/ion batteries and enough chargers to keep them all charged if I ended up needing to saw all day with it. You might want to look into some of those options for a first saw.
I heartily encourage you to get proper training too. I had used a chainsaw and somehow never got hurt using it in about 35 years when I took "game of logging" training. I learned a lot in that, I only took sessions 1 and 2, 3 and 4 go into professional logging and skidder use, I did not think I needed that. When I took my course, there were 12 taking the class as I recall, all but 4 were professional loggers, I was 1 or the 4 non pro's
The 543xp is just out of my budget, i do alot of out of state hunting trips and with what ive got going on $400 is my budget for a saw to still allow me the proper safety equipment and looking into training. As for the electric saws, maybe I'm a little stubborn but i just have to have gas powered equipment...thats just my thing lol. I appreciate the advice however
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: doc henderson on January 22, 2019, 06:05:28 PM
I agree sadler.   i think the electric is further down the line.  i have the 40 volt Stihl.  I started with the chainsaw and a blower.  they start every time, but not for firewood. I use the saw for a quick cut or for rustic trimming inside my shop. The battery and charger are the most expensive.  After that not much more to add the concrete/metal saw, and hedge trimmer, and weed wacker.  these are nice around the house but not for commercial in my op.  Go get you a good quality medium saw at the dealer you trust the most.  Even thought you are mechanical, some of the new saws will get a glitch and the memos from the company will help out.  i have had my dealer dx. over the phone and work through their lunch hour to get me up an running.  best wishes and be safe.  My first real saw was a Stihl 046 and it is still my favorite saw.  I paid almost $400 26 years ago, now they are over $1,000.  You will make the right decision for you!
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 06:18:50 PM
Thanks to everyones input i think i have enough info to research over the next week or so and make my decision. Ill get back to you guys with what i end up buying.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 22, 2019, 06:21:18 PM
I see nothing wrong with what your looking at with your budget.  The Echo 400 is a fine saw.  One of the better 40cc class saws out there.  The Husky  445, and 450, and Stihl ms-250 are fine as well.  They are both 50cc, and the Stihl a 45cc.   If you want to stick with 40cc, the Husky 440 is a good one.  Yes they are all clamshell design, but that not such a big deal.  And yes, you can rebuild them.  These type of saws don't usually have a lot of features of the pro models, but for what they are they should service your needs fine.  Taking care of them will go along way towards there longevity.  You with your background, that shouldn't be a problem. ;) 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: DelawhereJoe on January 22, 2019, 07:42:27 PM
If $400 is your budget then a Husqvarna 450 rancher will cost you that at Lowes or an Echo cs490 at $350 and Echo 590 timberwolf at $400. If it was me I'd go with the echo cs 590 due to its ability to run a 24" bar and its saving over the 455 or 460 rancher.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 22, 2019, 08:14:47 PM
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on January 22, 2019, 07:42:27 PM
If $400 is your budget then a Husqvarna 450 rancher will cost you that at Lowes or an Echo cs490 at $350 and Echo 590 timberwolf at $400. If it was me I'd go with the echo cs 590 due to its ability to run a 24" bar and its saving over the 455 or 460 rancher.
A local dealer has a 450 (not rancher) for $349 and a 450 e series for $368, these were the two 450's i was looking at. I know my original post said rancher but i feel the rancher model is unnecessary after some research. I will check out those saws you listed as well
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Greenerpastures on January 23, 2019, 03:24:22 PM
For your budget, the Echo 590 is the best saw available, reliable,
easy to get parts for, and has good power. Those Husqvarna's in the
same price range, I would not take one for free.
I own an Echo CS501 sx, and am looking to buy another one, they are
more expensive, their lightness is why I like them, and of course they
are dead reliable, easy to start, and keep clean easily during use.
There is no MT or AT control systems on them, they are easy to modify
to keep them running cooler and a little stronger, even just the removal
of the spark screen, then take out the tube that sits behind it, replace spark
screen, and drill another slot in the small deflector that holds on the spark
screen, re-tune the carb, and you have more power and a cooler running
saw.

I had a Stihl 362, I liked that saw for its light weight and power, it started
easily too, sold it on though as it was not getting used enough, I would not
be afraid to have another one.

And another very good saw is Makita / Dolmar, easy to work on if you have
to, they come with oregon bars sprockets and chains that are sold just about
everywhere, the carbs are easy to get as are carb kits, and after market
barrel and pistons are redily available if the worst happens. They would be close
in price to your budget too, and there are guys on here who sell all the saws I
mentioned.
I have a bad back, so for me a 50cc Makita / Dolmar would win over the 590 Echo,
otherwise the extra power and keen price of the Echo would win, as long as
you don't mind a little extra weight.
It is safe to say, use the shortest bar and chain you can, your back will
thank you, I use Sixteen Inch setup, though a 50cc Makita / Dolmar
or Echo will pull an 18 without issue.

People already mentioned, dealer support is paramount, especially if you
are not able to adjust a carb, this is a critical step in ensuring your saw
is getting the right amount of fuel and does not get cooked from fuel starvation.

I now the saw shops have to live, but most are on line now too, so especially
small parts can be posted out, and it is definitely worth it to even post a saw
to someone you can trust once in a while for a thorough check up, depending on usage I suppose, it is money well spent.
Saws can last a long time, if they are set up by someone who knows what they are doing, this is critical for longevity, peace of mind, and production, there is nothing worse than a saw that is not set up right from new, it will in most cases
sooner than later become a door stop.

What ever you choose, keep safe.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 24, 2019, 09:58:41 AM
So i had seven different saws that i was interested in and did a bunch of research. 
I narrowed that list down to the three saws that i liked the most. One is a 40cc Husky 440E, another is the 45cc Stihl Ms250, and the final is the 50cc Husky 450.
After really going through each saw i have decided on the Stihl MS 250. I found the one and only thing i really didnt like about this saw (as of now) is that its not a 40cc to easily follow the 20cc rule for my second saw. But im sure there is nothing wrong with a 60cc and a 45cc lol. 
Oh yea, and thanks to you guys i decided to go the two chainsaw ruite...20cc apart. Something i never even considered but now ill be spending more $$$ in the future thanks to you all haha.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: thecfarm on January 24, 2019, 10:08:43 AM
Good choice on the 2 saws. I have a Efco saw,that I won on here,around 50cc and a 372 husky around 70cc. I bring both into the woods. The Big saw to cut the trees down and cut the logs,than the Small saw to limb with. And yes as mentioned the Small saw can feel like a toy. BUT it is not!!!
Good on the safety equipment. Cell phone on you too.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Greenerpastures on January 24, 2019, 10:28:45 AM
The Stihl is definitely the best saw on your list.
Happy days ahead.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: doc henderson on January 24, 2019, 10:37:29 AM
I know you will take great care of your equipment.  I have had offers for my old saws that is more than I paid.  I don't sell so far since the saws are like family.  I still have a smaller saw that I got for my son to learn on when he was about 12. It is tooless and EZ start.  But I have it in reserve.  So if years from now this first saw falls into a size you don't use, you can prob. get your money out of it.  Best wishes!!!
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: trapper on January 24, 2019, 11:22:54 AM
You need two saws even if the second is a small inexpensive one as long as it runs.  What you going to do when the first one is pinched in a cut? 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: upnut on January 24, 2019, 12:24:02 PM
Good choice! The MS 250 will serve you well, at least mine did. I was looking for a saw with a decompression button so I went with a MS 241 C-M to replace it, which worked out well. That 250 will cut alot of wood....Scott B.

Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Inaotherlife on January 24, 2019, 12:55:29 PM
I've never owned an MS250, but I like that saw.
Good power to weight for a non-pro saw right there. And not too big or bulky.

As for the idea of a future second saw.
I bought a 50cc as my big saw initially. An Echo CS-490 because it's a real lightweight for 50cc, and mainly because the deal I got on it was too good to pass up. I like it just fine though.
But when I looked at the 60cc saws they looked huge and heavy for an only 10cc increase. So when I found a lightly used but 10 year old Husky 372XP for a good bit less than I could buy any new 60cc saw, I made the leap to 70cc with a good bit more power and without a substantial increase in size or weight over a 60.

And actually I don't subscribe to any hard set rule of 15 or 20cc split between saws.
I could easily go with a hot 40 or 45cc saw over a 50cc to go along with the 372.

If I was in a situation where I wanted a new 60cc saw, I'd almost assuredly pick one of the Echo 590, 600p, or 620p.
I like the long stroke, high torque motors....and the bang for the buck.
I think with these you get a lot more pro features than with a farm grade Husky or Stihl. And if you don't mind used, a 590 can easily be found for around 250 or even less.
Of course if your buying used, you might find a nice pro saw in your budget. Just don't buy somebody's old junker.

If you're dead set on the 20cc rule, a used Makita 6421 is a real nice saw, although not widespread, that can usually be bought in good condition for a really good price. And is another long stroke motor that can be upgraded at a later date with a top end swap to 73 or 79cc. Very nice and well built saws.
But they're heavier than a 372xp.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: reride82 on January 24, 2019, 01:24:33 PM
Quote from: trapper on January 24, 2019, 11:22:54 AM
You need two saws even if the second is a small inexpensive one as long as it runs.  What you going to do when the first one is pinched in a cut?
Get a second bar for your saw, a cheap alternative if you stick a saw. Just unbolt the powerhead from the stuck bar, install the spare bar and chain, and be more careful with the second bar getting the first one unstuck :D
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 24, 2019, 01:48:20 PM
Cheaper yet, just get you some plastic wedges of various sizes and use them on a cut you have doubts with "before" you pinch your chain.  Cut with a seasoned friend or buddy a while, or learn from an experienced user will help you to.  I'm sure it will happen as it has with all of us, but just learn how it happens, so you can prevent it next time. Wedges while its takes more time to stop and use them, they sure save you a lot of grief.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: doc henderson on January 24, 2019, 02:22:32 PM
watch those videos on the Stihl website and at least each time you stick your bar, you can say to yourself (and a few other words of your choosing)  "I knew that was going to happen".  sounds like a great first saw.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 24, 2019, 02:39:18 PM
        One thing I might add while were on the subject is that MS-250/251 is a plastic cased saw.  They won't take a lot of twisting and tugging if you get your bar pinched.  They will break with too much force.   A metal cased "pro"saw will take a little more, but not a good idea with any saw.  Its a common beginners mistake that you can avoid now that you know.  Got two 029's sitting here because of that problem. I work on saws as a sideline hobby and have seen most everything.  That's a good idea with the videos too. Watch them and take note.  Be safe and apply what you learn.  I sure wish I had a forum like this when I started out. :)
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: Sadlerracing529 on January 24, 2019, 04:20:14 PM
I sure am glad there is a resource like this to use thats for sure. I will look into those videos and into the classes that were mentioned as well. Im sure in time I'll be able to repay the debt and contribute to the forum a little more after im not a total newbie
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: HolmenTree on January 24, 2019, 04:23:22 PM
Quote from: wild262 on January 24, 2019, 01:48:20 PM
Cheaper yet, just get you some plastic wedges of various sizes and use them on a cut you have doubts with "before" you pinch your chain.  Cut with a seasoned friend or buddy a while, or learn from an experienced user will help you to.  I'm sure it will happen as it has with all of us, but just learn how it happens, so you can prevent it next time. Wedges while its takes more time to stop and use them, they sure save you a lot of grief.
Wedges all the way, I always got three 10" in my pouch. 12" and 8"ones in the truck.
But this little cast iron wedge made by Sandvik will get your saw unpinched every time.  In bigger trees it opens up the backcut enough to get the bigger plastic wedges started. I might only use it once or twice in the last 5 years but it's worth its weight in gold.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20190124_150627.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1548364944)
 
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 25, 2019, 04:21:44 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 24, 2019, 04:23:22 PM
Quote from: wild262 on January 24, 2019, 01:48:20 PM
Cheaper yet, just get you some plastic wedges of various sizes and use them on a cut you have doubts with "before" you pinch your chain.  Cut with a seasoned friend or buddy a while, or learn from an experienced user will help you to.  I'm sure it will happen as it has with all of us, but just learn how it happens, so you can prevent it next time. Wedges while its takes more time to stop and use them, they sure save you a lot of grief.
Wedges all the way, I always got three 10" in my pouch. 12" and 8"ones in the truck.
But this little cast iron wedge made by Sandvik will get your saw unpinched every time.  In bigger trees it opens up the backcut enough to get the bigger plastic wedges started. I might only use it once or twice in the last 5 years but it's worth its weight in gold.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20190124_150627.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1548364944)
 


I'd like to have one of those Holmen!  Where should I go to look for one?  Many thanks.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: HolmenTree on January 25, 2019, 08:10:45 AM
I bought it at our Canadian Tire, you could probably order it online .
It's actually designed for splitting firewood rounds.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: wild262 on January 25, 2019, 08:20:48 AM
              I'll do some checking.  I'm teaching my Son n law the basics of chainsaw operation/handling, as he wants to heat his new house with a small outside boiler.  This would be a nice gift to give him and 1 for myself as well.  Thank You Holmen :)
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: doc henderson on January 25, 2019, 09:43:11 AM
I looked on amazon and did not see that brand/style.  If someone finds a source, could you share please.
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: HolmenTree on January 25, 2019, 11:13:26 AM
Sorry fellas its not a Sandvik. It says Fiskars on the wedge.

Splitting Wedge / Yard and Garden / Products | Fiskars Canada (http://fiskars.ca/Products/Yard-and-Garden/Axes-and-Striking/Splitting-Wedge)
Title: Re: First saw
Post by: deminin on January 25, 2019, 04:20:35 PM
Quote from: Sadlerracing529 on January 20, 2019, 07:08:41 PM

I have been looking at a Stihl Ms 271 farm boss or the Husqvarna rancher but just looking for advice either for or against these saws as i dont know if they would be the best fit for my purpose and am trying to learn.
Thanks in advance everyone

I have a MS271 and it is strong enough to handle all my needs, and light/small enough so that it's not a struggle to handle.  I would recommend it.