Surge RV vacuum HELP

Max sawdust · February 12, 2006, 06:08:25 PM

OK,
I took out an old SURGE R.V. (I assume stands for Rotary Vane) vacuum pump from an old milk house. It has an 1/2HP motor with it. When I manually turn the wheel, I seem to get vacuum.

Here are my questions:
Do you think it will work for a vac kiln bag set up for drying mantles and the like?
Do I put oil in it? Or water?
Where do I put it?
What do you recommend I check out on the pump prior to firing it up?

If nothing else steer me in the right direction to find out about this old milking vacuum pump ;D I can not seem to find anything on the web.

THanks Max

Oh by the way I have access to the old milk chilling compressor with fans and radiator. Hmmm condenser for a small vac kiln ???

wiam · February 12, 2006, 07:32:27 PM

There is a special vacuum pump oil that can be purchased from milking machine dealers. There should be a filler plug somewhere in the lower part of the pump.

Will

Max sawdust · February 13, 2006, 04:34:16 PM

Wiam Thanks,
I found it. Also found the drain plug.

Do you know what the large pipe coming up on the left side of the pump is for? I know the pipe on the right side is the vacuum.

Sure want to build bag vac kiln system, wished some of the folks that have tried would chime in.

Max

wiam · February 13, 2006, 06:38:12 PM

The other side should be exhaust.

Will

GF · February 14, 2006, 11:16:13 AM

I also want to build one but am having a hard time locating a vacuum pump at a reasonable price.

Max sawdust · February 14, 2006, 12:50:20 PM

GF,
If I ever figure out how to build a bag vac kiln and it works I will let you know. I do not know if the pump I have will work for a bag vac kiln or not, but this type of old dairy barn pump should be plentiful and cheap. I saw a few on ebay for a few hundered. Not sure where you are located but if in the northeast or midwest there are thousands of these pumps collecting dust in old milk houses.

I know these pumps designed for milking can evacuate large quantities of air, but not sure how much vacuum it can draw, since for milking you do not want too much vacuum

I got to buy a vacuum guage to measure it. :

I was waiting to see if someone on the forum had tried this or not, before I start buying supplies to build the kiln.
Max
I hope when Den gets back from his trip he will give me a reality check on this type of pump.

serg · February 14, 2006, 01:03:13 PM

Hello!
At communism and socialism we were poor. At disorder of the USSR the economy has failed. I took the vacuum pump of a dairy farm, water-ring it(he) perfectly worked! On photos it(he) is similar to ours, correctly to tell it pumps from America. I created vacuum 0.82 residual pressure from atmospheric, temperature of boiling of 58 degrees С.
Sergey.

Max sawdust · February 14, 2006, 02:16:46 PM

Spasibo Serg!
I believe this pump is rotary vane in design, and hope it will work for a bag vacuum kiln for drying single thick pieces of wood. I have read past posts on this subject, but still have questions.
I will make a heated water bath to put the vacuum bag with the wood in. This pump has oil in it so I will need to try and remove most of the water vapor/droplets prior to reaching the pump. (Need to make some kind of simple condenser that is kept at a temperature lower than the boiling point of water under the vacuum.)

I am wondering if this should be discontinuous where I release the vacuum on some kind of schedule even though the vacuum bag will be held under heated water? My thinking is the only reason to release the vacuum will be to drain the water from the bag and holding condenser/canister.

I hope the economy improves for every one in Russia, I have several friends with family living in the St. Petersburg area.
Max

serg · February 14, 2006, 02:57:35 PM

Max

I have a problem of knowledge of the English language. Many things I have to understand half.
Your friends can write to me in Russian?
I then can be useful in the decision of many questions.
The best regards
Sergey.

Larry · February 14, 2006, 06:45:09 PM

I tried a few things with a cheap venturi pump. They can pull a good vacuum and ya don't have to worry bout contamination. Can't remember where I got it.

Bought this pump maybe a year ago.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006021416084858&item=4-1540&catname=

Took a bit to wire and plumb the gadgets in.

Boss didn't like it much when I took her electric blanket off the bed to provide heat for my timber. ;D

Had a few success's and failures. Got side tracked along the way and played with stabilizing wood using pentacryl. Maybe I'll get back to it later this year.

One thing about it...even if ya can't dry wood the pump and bag will make a great veneer press.

Some heavy duty reading. "Primary Driving Force in Wood Vacuum Drying" written by Dr. Chen some years ago. I think it is a pretty good primer for what takes place during vacuum drying. It's a pdf on the internet...sorry can't provide the link to it though.

wiam · February 14, 2006, 11:12:45 PM

A water ring shuld put out higher vacuum than a rotary vane. Cows are milked at about 12-13 inches of mercury.

Will

Max sawdust · February 15, 2006, 07:43:54 AM

Serg,
Thank you for the offer. When I get to the point of being educated enough on the subject to ask poignant questions I may get them translated.

Larry,
Thanks for info. If you do not mind me asking, what were your failures? I do not sense a lot of enthusiasm on your part for the bag kiln.

Wiam,
That is my concern too. I guess the only way to find out if I can pull 28-29 Inches of Mercury will be with a guage. If I can't it will be back to square one. Maybe I will try what Larry suggested.

Max

Larry · February 15, 2006, 08:05:47 AM

Dried plain sawn thick oak great...no cracks. Got cracks when I tried thick oak with radical and tangential grain, like oak crotch. Don't know what I did wrong. ???

D._Frederick · February 16, 2006, 09:27:34 PM

The vacuum pump shown is not a vane pump, it has two large piston moved back and forth with crank shaft. The crank case has oil in it that lubes the moving parts. This pump will move volume, but not create a high vacuum.

Max sawdust · February 20, 2006, 09:27:02 AM

So, The consensus seems to be this pump will not draw enough vacuum for a bag kiln ??? :-[
Max

bull · February 20, 2006, 09:52:32 AM

Surge vaccum pumps is regulated at 12 psi for surge sling style bucket milker and can be regulated to 15 PSI to run a Delaval it can pull 20 but you will over heat it and evetually burn it out... Not much good for anything but running milking machines, save it.... It will be coming back into style when all the corprate farms fail and we will be able to once again milk 15 cows and raise a family of 10...GOD BLESS AMERICA

Max sawdust · February 22, 2006, 03:54:17 PM

Quote from: bull on February 20, 2006, 09:52:32 AM
Surge vaccum pumps is regulated at 12 psi for surge sling style bucket milker and can be regulated to 15 PSI to run a Delaval it can pull 20 but you will over heat it and evetually burn it out... Not much good for anything but running milking machines, save it.... It will be coming back into style when all the corprate farms fail and we will be able to once again milk 15 cows and raise a family of 10...GOD BLESS AMERICA

Thanks,
I will put it back where I found it :D :D In my fathers barn. I see this pump is popular with the goat milking crowd.
Max