iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

custom sawing

Started by lloydsen, December 01, 2019, 07:51:35 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lloydsen

What is a normal price to charge per bd ft ,when cutting a customers logs ?

SawyerTed

That is the $64,000 question.  My charge is based on what it costs to operate.  It costs me X but it might cost you Y to operate.  Typically my charge per board foot is $0.36 to $0.40 on mobile jobs.  In my log yard, usually $0.36 per board foot. I prefer an hourly rate on portable jobs because it motivates customers to stage logs properly, ensure there's equipment to support the operation and ensure there is sufficient help on hand. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

WV Sawmiller

   Good question and response. What does it cost you to saw in your area? What are costs of living in your area? How much is your time and equipment worth to you?

   I am in a low cost economically depressed area and I charge $.30/bf with the customer stacking and $.35/bf if I have to stack. I also charge an hourly rate of $60/hr for small, short, special (think quartersawing, etc) cuts, chainsaw work, etc. I suggest do some web surfing of various portable sawing sites and check their rates. There are wide differences. In my area many charge less than I do but usually they are not mobile (or very responsive). When a customer tells me someone else will saw his logs cheaper than me I tell him that sawyer knows what his time, skill and equipment are worth. I don't dicker or worry about missed jobs. If I'm going to give something away I will give it to friends and people I like rather than strangers I don't. 

   There are many sawing schemes and billing techniques - BF (Finished lumber or pre-sawed logs), Hourly, shares, Hardwood vs Softwood, by the log, etc. - and all are fair as long as both parties understand and agree. Just be crystal clear to the customer what you provide and charge and what he is responsible for providing/paying. Good luck.

  
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

barbender

These guys have good advice. The sawing rates, like many things in my area, are too low in my opinion. About $250/1000. I used to do some, when I had more free time. It's hard to get motivated to go saw for marginal money when I have a lot of other things to do. Getting up around $.35- 40 would help tremendously and, as mentioned, hourly puts things on the customer to have a ready and productive worksite. Sawing specialty items and low production wood like cedar should tend towards hourly.
Too many irons in the fire

ladylake

 I charge by the hour, my expenses don't vary much no matter what I'm sawing. Customers with nice logs come out good and ones with small snarly logs pay quite a bit more per bf. The Amish around here saw for $170 a thousand but I'd guess I get at least 30% more wood out of a log.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Sixacresand

$250 to $350 per thousand BdFt. Plus cost of help, nail strikes and non milling tasks.  Generally, if you work steady, do a good job, be patient with customers, and low ball the total price a little, the customer will make it up with a bonus and call you again. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

SawyerTed

I neglected to include my hourly rate of $72/hour.  First of the year I suspect I'll get a raise.  I'm more expensive than the young man down the road with an LT 35 but I stay plenty busy sawing 3-5 days per week.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

jmouton

lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

Stephen1

$90 per hr, $1.50 klm travel both ways and $40 per damage blade from hitting metal. This is just like answering a Kijiji AD oh yes, and minimum of 4hrs.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

WV Sawmiller

   As mentioned $.30/bf or $60/hr plus $25 blade damage fee for metal, $1/mile (one way one time), $300 minimum on mobile jobs, no minimum for home based sawing. Same rates for soft or hardwood.

   Include what is important to you but remember don't make it so complicated it becomes too much of an admin burden on you or scares customers away. They have to be able to understand what they are paying and getting.
   
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

You will notice that sawing/labor prices vary greatly between different locales in the US and then fairly drastically North of the border.  It is good to have a general idea of what other sawyers charge.

You should not pattern your sawing rates by what other sawyers charge but base it upon your expenses and the value/worth of your time.  You are expected to make a profit, but you are also expected by your customers to produce a quality product in a timely manner.  Value for value.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

Up here, we're likely the lowest sawing rates!

The lowest rate in the area that I know of is $.15/bf, I get $.165/bf

So, like has been said a lot depends on your location!

Sometimes I think it would be cheaper to go to a lumber yard and buy your lumber than it is to pay some of the prices that some people charge! 
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Sixacresand

Quote from: Chuck White on December 03, 2019, 06:35:31 AMSometimes I think it would be cheaper to go to a lumber yard 
Yep. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

WV Sawmiller

Chuck,

   I don't see how you can saw for that.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Quote from: Chuck White on December 03, 2019, 06:35:31 AMSometimes I think it would be cheaper to go to a lumber yard and buy your lumber than it is to pay some of the prices that some people charge!
The principal reason that I saw the amount of framing lumber that I saw is because there is no market for small amounts of logs or beetle killed SYP to be sold.  If landowners need to remove some SYP trees for whatever reason, they will have framing lumber sawed because they know that eventually they will need it and the trees do not go to waste.  Sort of a salvage mentality.

Undercutting other sawyer's rates would be a race to the bottom with everyone loosing.  When I began my sawing "career" 18 years ago I charged $175 per Mbf.  I would hate to think about sawing at that rate now.   :-X
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

I'm not in any way, trying to undercut anyone in the sawing business!

I'm also, not sawing to make a living!

If someone in this area comes to you and wants you to do a sawjob for them and you say $200.00/1,000 they would turn and walk away and if you said $300.00/1,000 they would run!

I know from past postings here, that some get well over $300.00/1,000 and they are sawing to survive!

It still depends on where you're located!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Southside

Your area reminds me of where I grew up, same economic challenges. Folks just don't have money, does not matter how good of a product you offer. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

WV Sawmiller


Quote from: Magicman on December 03, 2019, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: Chuck White on December 03, 2019, 06:35:31 AMSometimes I think it would be cheaper to go to a lumber yard and buy your lumber than it is to pay some of the prices that some people charge!
The principal reason that I saw the amount of framing lumber that I saw is because there is no market for small amounts of logs or beetle killed SYP to be sold.  If landowners need to remove some SYP trees for whatever reason, they will have framing lumber sawed because they know that eventually they will need it and the trees do not go to waste.  Sort of a salvage mentality.

Undercutting other sawyer's rates would be a race to the bottom with everyone loosing.  When I began my sawing "career" 18 years ago I charged $175 per Mbf.  I would hate to think about sawing at that rate now.   :-X
I am envious of the MagicMan sawing all that straight pine into framing.
Quote from: Chuck White on December 03, 2019, 02:46:12 PM
I'm not in any way, trying to undercut anyone in the sawing business!

I'm also, not sawing to make a living!

If someone in this area comes to you and wants you to do a sawjob for them and you say $200.00/1,000 they would turn and walk away and if you said $300.00/1,000 they would run!

I know from past postings here, that some get well over $300.00/1,000 and they are sawing to survive!

It still depends on where you're located!
Chuck,

   I still don't see how you can afford to saw for that but if it is working for you more power to you. I also am not sawing to make a living but I can't afford to saw for less than my current rate even though I have neighbors who quote they will. I have a Mennonite counterpart about 35 miles from me who is/was still sawing for $.25/bf the last we talked but I think he has pretty much stopped mobile sawing and he has at least 3 teenaged sons. He slabbed a big walnut for me for $.50/bf with his Lucas slabber. He seems to be doing okay but his expenses must be much less than mine.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

SawyerTed

The young man down the road is financed by his future father-in-law.  The father of the "would be bride" believes the young man needs direction.  He financed the sawmill business. :D I believe it is to ensure the young man is so tired he's "harmless"  :D   He's sawing for cost ($50/hr) as best I can determine. I have two daughters......it is probably a good investment.   8)

On a serious note, valuing one's own work has to be part of the calculation.  This isn't a business to get rich in, but there has to be some profit.  Knowing the market is important to knowing how to price.  While I'm absolutely not in a high price market, we are fortunate that we are adjacent to a metropolitan area.  Most of my customers are very happy with the value they receive, most believe the value is worth a few dollars more and include that in their payment.  Tips range from 10 to 20 percent, sometimes more sometimes zero, but my base price leaves me satisfied at the end of a day without the tips.

In the end, if for a business, there has to be more than an "at cost" rate (unless you have a daughter).  If for a hobby, "at cost" is fine because any extra is gravy since the "profit" is in the "fun" of sawing.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Chuck White

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 03, 2019, 08:08:41 PM

Chuck,

  I still don't see how you can afford to saw for that but if it is working for you more power to you. I also am not sawing to make a living but I can't afford to saw for less than my current rate even though I have neighbors who quote they will. I have a Mennonite counterpart about 35 miles from me who is/was still sawing for $.25/bf the last we talked but I think he has pretty much stopped mobile sawing and he has at least 3 teenaged sons. He slabbed a big walnut for me for $.50/bf with his Lucas slabber. He seems to be doing okay but his expenses must be much less than mine.
Well, to start with, I bought my mill used (I'm the 3rd owner) in May 2008 and it was paid off in July of 2009!  I've done a few upgrades on it since then, but that money came out of income from sawing!
I honestly believe that the biggest reason I saw is because I enjoy it!  8)
I can saw 2,000 bf of 1 & 2 inch lumber in a day, and on less than a full tank of gas!
I usually find an off-bearer, but the customer pays him!
Now, at this point in my life, I have scaled back and I only saw 10-20% of what I used to, I don't travel over 15 miles to saw now, and as always I shut down when the weather turns cold!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

jeepcj779

Chuck,
 How many hours are in your "day"? Some call 4 hours of sawing a day, some 12 hours. If you sawed that 2000 bdft in 4 hours, you would be making about $75/hour. That is about the average for my area (just based on research).

Take my advice for what it is worth ($0): Everyone I have found in my area who saws charges by the hour, which seems to cover just about all the angles. What that comes out to per bdft depends on a number of factors. If the customer provides and off-bearer, you can saw faster and they get more value for their money. The same goes for if the customer has good logs, has the logs properly staged, and/or provides the equipment (and operator) to move the logs, lumber, and waste. If they don't provide those things, your production goes down and the customer loses value. Hourly also compensates for small logs, irregular logs, oversize logs, specialty cuts, etc. Either way, you are compensated for your time at the hourly rate you think matches your skill/production level. If you have a hydraulic mill and are capable of sawing 500-600 bdft/hr with an off-bearer, charge more per hour. If you are new to sawing or have a manual mill and are only capable of 100-200 bdft/hr, charge less. As long as the customer knows these things and agrees to your rate, I think by the hour is best.

Chuck White

I'm usually on-site at 8:00 and start setting up, and the first log is on about 8:30, break for lunch 15-20 min about 11:30 then back to sawing and finally shut down between 4:00 & 4:30.

I never go to a sawjob until the logs are staged!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Stephen1

Quote from: Chuck White on December 04, 2019, 07:03:49 AM
I'm usually on-site at 8:00 and start setting up, and the first log is on about 8:30, break for lunch 15-20 min about 11:30 then back to sawing and finally shut down between 4:00 & 4:30.

I never go to a sawjob until the logs are staged!
Staged! If I ever show up and they are staged I jump or joy. I showed up last week for  6 logs spread down the driveway.I was told everything was ready. He had an 1 oak about 200' away and some other nice pine logs 200' the other way. On our intial conversation, I had offered to bring my bobcat to help stage. He declined. I then mentioned the arborist that dropped the trees has a mini excavator,  he declined them. well , He says to me , you have a trailer hitch, lets hook the chain up and move the logs. Not! We rolled the logs in the driveway with the my cant hooks. The one log 200' away he ended up with a snatch block and then he hooked his Mercedes coup up for the final 100', I should have got a picture. :D The big logs stayed where they were. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Magicman

Quote from: Magicman on December 03, 2019, 11:52:27 AMUndercutting other sawyer's rates would be a race to the bottom with everyone loosing
Chuck, I can see where it appeared that this portion of my Reply #14 was directed toward you but that was not my intent at all.  It was a different paragraph and intended as a general statement.  I offer my apology for the misunderstanding.

This topic asks a very valid question and has drawn many different views from many different locales and sawyers, both full and part time.  It's amazing what we all learn each day from listening to others. smiley_thumbsup
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

No offense taken, and none intended in anything I posted!

I guess it all boils down to our location, along with the reason/capacity that we are sawing!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Thank You Sponsors!