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Deck question

Started by mart, June 03, 2014, 02:35:05 AM

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mart

It seems conventional wisdom would suggest one use treated lumber for a deck. Or at least that's what the places that sell treated decking would suggest. It seems a waste to me to buy decking for my deck expansion when I have plenty of lumber and logs with which to make more lumber. What are your thoughts on using untreated spruce for a deck? It would be painted with a good quality deck stain/paint. Or should I just limit the use of the untreated stuff to the framing of the deck and buy treated material for the decking? Thanks
I was young and dumb once. I got over being young a long time ago.

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m wood

hi mart.  I cut and use a lot of spruce around the farm.  If I put it in or anywhere near the ground, say a foot or two, expect only a few short years of life.  I'd estimate about 3 yrs in ground and about 5 or 6 years near ground, depending on the soil conditions etc.  For the decking itself, the way you plan to prep it, I'd absolutely use it.  But pu the PT on and in the soil.
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mart

Mark,

None of it will be on or close to the soil. The deck will be 12'x20'. The framing will be about 15" off the ground on the upper end and 30" on the lower end due to the slope of the ground along the house. At the end of the deck it will be about 24" off the ground on the high side and 48" on the low side. Once I get the deck built I will install gutters along the roof. Wife doesn't like that rain down the back of her neck when she lets the dog out or steps out to yell at a moose in the garden.

Mart
I was young and dumb once. I got over being young a long time ago.

LT15 w/19 hp - 24' bed
Branson 3725
Stihl MS362
Husqvarna 450

beenthere

QuoteWhat are your thoughts on using untreated spruce for a deck?

My thoughts, the untreated deck boards will not last as long as treated. So just expect to replace them which may not be a huge problem for you when you have more spruce available.

However, the structure below the deck boards will also decay in time and not as easy to replace. So I'd recommend treated at least in the structure under your deck boards for your convenience.

Or build all out of untreated with a design that is easy to replace (switch out), such as modules that are of a size to just drop in place at a later date.

Better than treated, would be to get some of your Alaska yellow cedar from the inside islands that stands dead and would make excellent deck material... But treated syp shipped in may be cheaper.
south central Wisconsin
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jueston

when ever a customer tells me they think treated lumber is ugly. i tell them they can have a beautiful cedar deck for 10 years or an ugly treated deck for 50....

my grudge against PT lumber is that i've had a lot of boards move around after installed, that might have to do with the low quality boards i'm getting from the box store, i'm not sure...

around here when people build decks out of something other then PT, like expensive exotic woods or come kind of composite, they still build the frame out of PT and then use skirt boards or something to hide it,

so if i were you, i'd stick with a pt frame which will last, and use whatever you'd like for the deck boards, since they are pretty easy to replace later if they fail.

Magicman

I used PT framing and decked with Cherry.  About 5 years later I was removing the Cherry and decking with PT.
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beenthere

A trick I use when for PT deck lumber is to purchase extra, then stack it on stickers to let it dry evenly from both faces.
PT lumber is solid piled after it is treated, and it will move some when drying out. Trying to dry it when on a deck with one side exposed to the sun and the underside just exposed to the damp ground, most boards will move and some will move a lot.
After stickering, I take the straight deck boards and return the warped ones (as well as those with heartwood that hasn't taken any treatment).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

If you put down fresh PT SYP, don't worry about leaving a crack between the boards.  Shrinkage will make it own cracks.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

BradMarks

Most certainly I agree with PT for the non-visible post and joist material, always dark, always damp. Pier blocks on the ground.  Top side, PT or Western Red, or one of the "composite" decking materials (very expensive). Alaska yellow is very pretty, my personal experience with that is quite a bit of spiral grain in most logs, and probably not the best material. Or redwood, but I'm guessing lumber yards don't have that up there. And treating any untreated wood, let the debate begin on which product works the best! Stain, ...thane, oils.

whitepine2

Quote from: mart on June 03, 2014, 02:35:05 AM
It seems conventional wisdom would suggest one use treated lumber for a deck. Or at least that's what the places that sell treated decking would suggest. It seems a waste to me to buy decking for my deck expansion when I have plenty of lumber and logs with which to make more lumber. What are your thoughts on using untreated spruce for a deck? It would be painted with a good quality deck stain/paint. Or should I just limit the use of the untreated stuff to the framing of the deck and buy treated material for the decking? Thanks
Well now I see your age in the 50's how long will the deck last and how old will you be then,can you replace yourself at this age. Now at 71 I don't buy green bananas if you want it to last as long as you do go for the PT my 2 cents

drobertson

I'll just say many of structures were built way before treated lumber was used.  The only thing I can say is treat the area for termites as you probably already have. the rest is up to mother nature and your maintenance of the boards, in ground timbers need some sort of prep, whether pressure treated or other means that have worked for years. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

We have Black Locust and White Oak, but I doubt that mart has much of that in Wasilla, AK.  Our ancestors didn't build very many open decks either.   :D  :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

beenthere

And maybe no termites in AK either. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

boscojmb

Hi Mart,
The old growth spruce that you have in Wasilla seems to be alot more rot resistant than spruce in the lower 48 or SE AK.
I lived in interior Alaska for several years. The only time that we used PT was for ground contact. Spruce seems to stand up alot better in AK.
John B.

Log-Master LM4

mart

Thanks guys for all the replies. No termites in Alaska that I'm aware of but we do have carpenter ants. Dreadful things. No black locust or white oak either unless you are well heeled enough to afford the shipped in stuff. Locally we only have birch, cottonwood, willow and spruce. There are some other coniferous species in the area but only sporadically and none close by. I think I have seen some cedar from the road on the way to Valdez but haven't stopped to confirm that. I need to do that on my next trip.

None of the deck or framing will have ground contact. It will be on pier blocks and posts with about 15" of ground clearance on the high side an 48" off the ground on the low side. We get a fair amount of moisture but nothing like South East Alaska. I will be keeping it well maintained and will be installing gutters to keep much of the roof run off from hitting the deck. I may go ahead with the PT for the decking. I'll have to price stuff when I get home from the slope. Thanks again guys.
I was young and dumb once. I got over being young a long time ago.

LT15 w/19 hp - 24' bed
Branson 3725
Stihl MS362
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Ianab

QuoteSpruce seems to stand up alot better in AK.

Might be because frozen wood doesn't decay?  :D

Seriously if it spends 1/2 the year below freezing it would be reasonable to assume it lasts twice as long?

Some sort of cedar would still be my choice though if you can find some locally. When I go to the trouble of building something, I like it to stay built, not having to rebuild in 5 or 10 years...

Ian
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