hi folks, im new and would like to ask some advice. i have 20 acres in nw ark that im wanting to clear. plan to do it myself and would like to transport the logs anout 50 miles to a sawmill. thats where i need some expert advice. dont know what would be the better option; buying a gooseneck trailer and pulling it with my 3/4 ton chevy or buying an older flat bed truck. found an older 2 1/2 ton truck locally thats pretty cheap but dont know if thats big enough. thanks for the help.
It's not just hauling. You need to consider loading and unloading, vehicle maintenance, insurance and a CDL. With the distances involved, it may be more economical to contract the hauling. Cut and stack until you have a few loads then have them moved.
For me one big factor would be type of road, ie highway? DOT, scales? or county roads?. County roads would be in the realm of DIY if you could figure out the loading issue (likely the mill has an "unloader").
Any other uses for any equipment you buy?
Ironwood
mostly state highway but plenty of loggers use it. no scales between my place and the mill. ive got an old truck i can pull the logs with. plan to load with a boom and hoist.
Another solution would be to hire a mill and mill the logs on site.
Well off twenty acres you could have enough lumber to build a house for everyone in the county or a outhouse ??? I don't have c d l's i'm a farmer ::)
I got a Volvo diesel i like real well like those air brakes too
Welcome to the forum, eddie.
Don
A gooseneck trailer is handier than pockets on a shirt. I'd sure rather pull a trailer than load on a 2 1/2 ton truck - unless the truck is a dump bed. Still yet, license for a trailer is waaaayyy less than for a truck in this state (AR).
I haul my logs on a gooseneck and tow it with a 3/4 ton dodge cummins, trailer is tandem axle with daul wheels. I haul my skidder and tractors as well as logs. I drop bunks in the pockets, hauls a pretty good load but I imagine if I ever got pulled over they would nail me for out of class. If I have alot of wood coming off a job I usually hire a local trucker.
eddie, Welcome to The Forestry Forum. Good luck with your business venture.
I would go with a goose kneck. We run both semi and 3/4 ton depending on what the roads are like. If the bush roads are open good we'll take the 3/4 ton in and haul with it till it gets packed down. If roads are good and I'm done with the bush work we'll haul with both.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21170/2650/100_0074_1.JPG)
Ryan
That's quite a load for that poor 3/4 ton, you might want to upgrade to a one ton dualie.
Stonebroke
Naw, he needs ten more feet on that trailer and another set of bunks. ;D Here in Pa. we use a few more straps though ;) Keeps the red lights from coming on behind you. Perhaps the Mounties horses cant catch up to you, or it's fairly remote.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11262/Owacklogs1.jpg)
Ironwood
Quote from: poor farmer/logger on January 24, 2010, 08:20:50 PM
I would go with a goose kneck. We run both semi and 3/4 ton depending on what the roads are like. If the bush roads are open good we'll take the 3/4 ton in and haul with it till it gets packed down. If roads are good and I'm done with the bush work we'll haul with both.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21170/2650/100_0074_1.JPG)
Ryan
Ryan, yer scarin' me!! A load like that, down here, would be on a tri axle, or at least a twin screw! Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, that's only a 7 ton trailer! How many feet ya figure ya got on there anyway? My trailer is very similar! I'd post a picture, but I haven't figured out pictures on this forum yet!
Good talkin with ya, Dave
Quote from: Shetland Sheepdog on January 24, 2010, 09:22:03 PM
Quote from: poor farmer/logger on January 24, 2010, 08:20:50 PM
I would go with a goose kneck. We run both semi and 3/4 ton depending on what the roads are like. If the bush roads are open good we'll take the 3/4 ton in and haul with it till it gets packed down. If roads are good and I'm done with the bush work we'll haul with both.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21170/2650/100_0074_1.JPG)
Ryan
Ryan, yer scarin' me!! A load like that, down here, would be on a tri axle, or at least a twin screw! Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, that's only a 7 ton trailer! How many feet ya figure ya got on there anyway? My trailer is very similar! I'd post a picture, but I haven't figured out pictures on this forum yet!
Good talkin with ya, Dave
Tires on the trailer look like they're riding on the sidewalls. :o
Looks like 6 cords to me, I figure I can haul 2 1/2 on my 14K gooseneck. Most wood around here, that would be around 11,000 pounds. I think you have way more weight than that- even if that wood is fairly dry.
I had a 14k trailer and hauled 5 1/2 cord of cedar, way to hard on trucks and scary when you see DOT car.
Bout 5 cords on there. maybe 5' high 8' wide and just over 16' long.
Last load of the season for that one so she was pilled on there pretty good. Usually haul 4-4.5 cords on the trailer. It handles it quite well.
Bit overweight but not to bad.lol..
Trailer is rated for 14,000 lbs but trailer weights roughly 4,000. Nice load for it is 10,000 lbs but it'll take quite a bit more. We're just on country roads and take things nice and slow.
Ryan
Awe heck, ya still had more room on there. :D Hope you weren't hauling on the highways with that load.... the pavement is murder on tires when loaded like that.
I need a truck and trailer just like that one. I can get considerably more for the lumber in this area (Wynyard) than what I can around Kelvington.
Brad.
I think you got more like 20000 lbs on that trailer if you got 5 cord on
I use a 32' GN trailer to haul my Skidder, Dozer.. and wood if i don't have enough to justify a semi.. i used to load up and hual loads like the above posted on my '99 F250.. i since got a '06 F350 and the differnce is i just try to haul more.. most i ever grossed out at was 44K lbs
Looking at these pictures and reading some of the posts on this thread it does not look like anyone is legal or safe. I know being a logger we have to do what we can to make a buck but what happens when someone gets killed because your so overloaded or not tied down properly?
Lotsa load in those pictures.............my understanding is top log should be less than 1/2 over side supports. :o :o but I only need to keep my CDL :P
I haul with this truck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16786/1817/les_075.JPG) It is in hay hauling mode in the pic. I have a set of log bunks I made I'll try to get a few pics.
PF/L,
Check out pictures on RPF-Coffeeshop!
Is your trailer a 20 footer?
Dave
Just replied over there Dave. How long ya been over here?? Yes it's a 20'
We've got a 1500 IH that we used to haul with too. If you guys thing that load was scarey you should've seen the ol IH.lol.. Had it riged up a few years ago though for 8' logs and it worked out quite well. We had a bunk at the back on a trip that we could flip down when we got home. Just lift up the hoist and drive away. Never unloaded so fast.lol..
I can assure you nobody was in danger with that load. Never lost a log yet in all the years we've been hauling. Those straps are rated for 15,000 a piece if I remeber corectly.
Jack Pine doesn't quite weigh 4k per cord. Some where between 3 and 4 though. It had been cut for about 6 months as well. I was just saying what the trailer was rated for and not what we had loaded.
When we haul the skidder on this trailer we pull it with the volvo loader. Just feel a little safer looking down on the skidder rather then way up.lol..
Ryan
It doesn't matter what the straps are rated for one strap or chain is not enough. Law says one tie down for every five feet with a minimum of two.
Maybe not enough for the law, but maybe enough to hold the load.
Okiemak has a 26' gooseneck for sale on the FOR SALE Fourm...
Bed of trailer is 26' long plus gooseneck so overall length is over 30'. Three axels, low boy tires with good tread. Removable uprights, solid construction. Trailer only sits about 30" off ground so it has a low center of gravity.
Weak point of this trailer is that all three axels need brake work done. I have been told that parts are readily available. One spring is broken, I have the replacement part just havent put it on yet.
I have set the price for a quick sale at $1950.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39636.0.html
He is in MI so might be worth contacting him.
Good luck.
Howdy
sorry Oakiemac for messing up you handle so bad, but at least I was trying to get the word out!
Quote from: poor farmer/logger on January 25, 2010, 10:16:14 AM
Just replied over there Dave. How long ya been over here?? Yes it's a 20'
Ryan
Just came over last week! Brian (CC) put me on to this forum, and I'm likin' it! Now alls I gotta do is figger out the photo thing! ??? ::)
Dave
CC got me over here too. Can send ya some instructions on how i did it if ya want. Not sure it's the right way but hey it's working.lol..
Quote from: beenthere on January 25, 2010, 02:58:11 PM
Maybe not enough for the law, but maybe enough to hold the load.
There's the key word - maybe. What happens when it breaks?
BillM,
My truck is legal load as shown (excepting the standards are a little low, should be a foot or two higher). I scaled it at my nieghbors digital scale. I showed this pic to see the straps. Here we need 3 straps for every 10 feet.
I have a family of three children in a minivan tooling around (we all have loved one's on the road right?) I would not do anything to endanger my family or yours ;)
When hauling I usually have three straps and most times two to three G-70 binders and chains as well (five to six for my trailer, and more on the truck). One of my suppliers rolls his eyes when I take and hour or more to strap my loads. The staps satisfy the law (and they are very visual) ,and the chains satisfy me.
Ironwood
My single axle log truck ( under cdl ) has a short 14 ft. bed with 4 ft tall stakes. I have four 4 in. winch straps mounted and use three on every load. Better safe than sorry.
Actually here in PA you need 3 straps or chains per tier of logs. I've been told that chains have to be transport grade and each link and hooks must be marked as transport with the grade.
Just had this conversation w/ the boss last night. Reminded her not to follow log trucks and do not be in the lane next to one at the stop light. Few years ago local guy rolled his truck and the logs went into the cabin of a passing car killing a young kid. pretty unnessary imo.
When instructed by the Trooper that it is 3 chains/straps per 10', I'll follow his directive. When hauling 14'ers I'll use 4 just to be sure (and like I said many times it is 5-6 for 12' logs 3 straps, and 2-3 chains). What if your tier is 20'? AND, Oh yeah, the straps and chains must touch every log on the top layer, so they need to be organized and domed to touch all.
Also, the G-70 is the transport marker on the hook, the chain is rated at G-70 or better (ie 80-110). Standards must also be "captive" meaning not able to just slide out of the pocket, the keeper can be pins or bolts etc....
I have heard of DOT guys using calipers to check for chain stretch.
Trailer hitch, no more than 6" of slack in the chains, and hooks facing forward and down. Clips on all mine. Usually I figure that no bolt is as strong as the chain, so I plasma cut a "+" in the A frame to slip the chain through and bolt on the back side, this also allows me to adjust the slack if it is too long or short.
Let's just say I am constanly being schooled and looking for correct info out there. Most cops dont know the full extent of the technical stuff.
Ironwood
Ya'll don't get your panties all waded up over different State laws - remember this guy is in Arkansas. He can license a three axle gooseneck for about $28.00/year or so and pull it with a fully licensed 3/4 ton truck (pickup truck @~$30.00/year). Carry farm liability insurance and be good to go hauling logs, hay or aXX. How many straps does it take? Enough to keep the load on. Once you go CDL, you'll get under differing rules and vehicle licenses will roll up in the thousands in this state (Arkansas).
Here's my log truck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10984/IMG_3172_copy.jpg)
Quote from: poor farmer/logger on January 25, 2010, 04:56:23 PM
CC got me over here too. Can send ya some instructions on how i did it if ya want. Not sure it's the right way but hey it's working.lol..
Ryan,
You can email me direct with instructions dn SEA GER at MY fairpoint DOT net All lower Case with no spaces.
Thanks, Dave
Those old Military Trucks don't even squat. They just hunker down and roll on. :D
Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on January 25, 2010, 07:58:15 PM
Ya'll don't get your panties all waded up over different State laws - remember this guy is in Arkansas. He can license a three axle gooseneck for about $28.00/year or so and pull it with a fully licensed 3/4 ton truck (pickup truck @~$30.00/year). Carry farm liability insurance and be good to go hauling logs, hay or aXX. How many straps does it take? Enough to keep the load on. Once you go CDL, you'll get under differing rules and vehicle licenses will roll up in the thousands in this state (Arkansas).
These are not state laws they are DOT regulations for all states. Any vehicle over 10,000 gvw falls under dot regulations cdl or no cdl.
With random enforcement throughout the country. ::)
Ironwood
Last February the Guy that Hauls my logs was Hit head-on by a Ford F450. His Peterbilt Was loaded along with his pup. When the Ford hit him he went into the ditch and tipped the truck over. The load shifted Forward pushing the headache rack into the back of the Cab before the Chains broke and scattered the Logs in the ditch and Highway. The load was legally bound by DOT Spec. The tractor with a 10' Spead between Uprights had 2 chains as did the pup. So even Legally Bound Loads arn't 100% fail Proof.. He and his chihuahua Roxy Both made it out with only Bumps and Bruises, The Guy that Hit him Died instantly.
Too many forces and multiplying factors at work to think for a moment that loads will hold. I dont believe that is the goal of DOT regs, it would be ridiculesly hard to strap a load to anticipate all permeatations of accidents. IMHO
Ironwood
Quote from: Tom on January 25, 2010, 09:01:28 PM
Those old Military Trucks don't even squat. They just hunker down and roll on. :D
http://www.govliquidation.com/
In Arkansas, farm tags are exempt from DOT - that's what I'm saying, the trailer tags with a farm taggted truck.
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2009/R/Amendments/SB20-S1.pdf
In new hampshire commercial wood operations are not allowed to run ag plates.
Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on January 26, 2010, 08:52:24 AM
In Arkansas, farm tags are exempt from DOT - that's what I'm saying, the trailer tags with a farm taggted truck.
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2009/R/Amendments/SB20-S1.pdf
You may be exempt from state dot but not federal dot.
I didn't say we were exempt from Federal laws - read the post; he's asking about a gooseneck trailer or a truck to haul his logs. Here in this state, he can run a trailer tag and can pull with a 3/4 ton pickup truck. If he is hauling Interstate then ICC will come into play - but not with a gooseneck and pickup. If he uses a 2 ton or so truck, he'll buy a weighted tag, I believe it's called a "B" here, depending on payload. As for tie downs or "wrappers", that'll depend on the state; Oregon requires 5, Colorado 3, and Arkansas, as best as I can tell, - 2 for a trailer truck (~ 80,000lbs.). Arkansas Highway Police administers these, as well as being "the weigh boys".
If you call and order something from out of state and your truck never even leaves your yard you are conducting interstate commerce and are required by law to comply Including your trucks.
Those 6X6's make the ultimate doall trucks. I would love to have one.
Don
Ifin ya gots a truck or trailer over 10,000 gvw geta DOT number at least. yes highway runs give the most exposure to staties or federal, but even local runs can trigger multiple infractions, all costly. Once you file for DOT number at least the police know you are trying to be legit. Without the number UR....... toast, hey you may never get pulled over, but then.......................maybe ya will.... I have had a Dot federal number since 1987, saved my pore DanG butt more than once.
Gday
Bugger it farmer if could get away with it id be doin it too ;) ;D 8) 8) waita second i have ;) Heres a pic of my Acco with 24' tray its regularly had loads of 20' footers stacked as high as the front rack which is 6' high guessing about 13 to14 ton load which aint bad on an 8-9 ton truck with out looking illagal which is about what its got on it on the pics as each of those Ironbark bridge beams are about 30' long n weigh abit over two ton ea
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17724/2195/gates_sawmil_weddingl_130.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17724/2195/gates_sawmil_weddingl_129.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17724/2195/gates_sawmil_weddingl_131.jpg)
That reminds me once i got pulled over with about 13 ton on er and the copper asks how much have you got on reply bout 8 ton how much can you carry ? about 8.7 ton we left it at that luckly ;) :D :D :D :D ;D ;D 8) 8)
Regards Chris
Woodmills,
My buddy recently saw the light to the tune of $1500. DOT#, log book, fire extinquiser, triangles, med card, and some other stuff, were all missing from his 3/4 ton w/ gooseneck. Cop made him drop the trailer and come back for it 10 hours later as no log book meant he could have been driving over the 14 hour limit (14 hours to drive 10 hour). He was 3 hours from home.
Ironwood
I'm glad I live in a farm state, three things on a check - license (CDL or not), weight - CDL only, and liability. I'm tellin' ya farm products are exempt. Logs non-commercially hauled are farm products. Logs commercially hauled are NR (natural resource) tags and do come under DOT - 80,000 Lbs. I've been stopped numerous times and never ticketed. Only time close was hauling a Cat 7G without a license (expired tag). I did have an escourt and got only a warning. I've hauled logs all over the state with a gooseneck and the weights and measure guys just wave.
All this is pre-9/11, after 9/11 all I've done is hauled a couple load of cattle on a goosenck. My life completely changed 9/11/2001, not because of the event itself but just a parallel set of circumstances that just so happened to coincide with that disaster.....
I also learned the hard way, though because of already having a DOT number and due to my ability to talk to a rock and have a meaningful conversation I was pretty well spared.
I was doing a final pick up at a job almost out by the coast, on my way home 101 west to 93 south. had a half a load of junky spruce long and ugly. Just before my exit I spot a state DOT car with a white van pulled over( I think the van driver was relieving himself and got caught) they musta been just done with him cause they pulled out behind me and followed me on the ramp, turning their blues on just before the end.
I pull over and the male passenger starts to measure my overhang and the female driver comes up to the truck and says why don't you have your seatbelt on.....I say cause NH doesn't have a seatbelt law. She says with a 10,000+ pound trailer you fall under federal rules
seatbelt, flares or triangles, medical card, chocks, fire extinguisher, spare fuses, log book
I am looking at 7 tickets ranging from 60 to 120 bucks each.
they ask for a DOT number and I give it.....they check me out on computor and ask me what I haul, is it my wood or others.....I mention I used to be a teacher....the guy says didn't ya wanna just hit those kids.....I say well maybe yes but ya just can't
and don't you want to hit half of the people you pull over
he says I CAN.....we start laughing, slappin each other on the back smokin cigaretts and they give me one ticket for no seat belt....got all the other stuff installed the next day.
In Wisconsin it doesn't matter if you are a FARM with farm plates, etc...you still need a DOT registration for any vehicle above 10,000 GVR. It is free and simple to get but the you have all the other requirements as previously mentioned.
As far as a CDL requirement you do not need one as long as you are under 26,000lbs GVWR with your truck and if you pulling a trailer that needs to be no more than 10,000LBS. However, if you are loaded to the max it may still be a good idea to have a CDL.