For Husky, Stihl, etc.... Is the chainsaw future battery powered?

[lxskllr]

Wonder what kind of battery it would take to pull a 24" bar all day? 20# in a backpack wouldn't be bad, but then you'd have a cord to deal with, and you still need bar oil.

[Greenerpastures]

Wonder what kind of battery it would take to pull a 24" bar all day? 20# in a backpack wouldn't be bad, but then you'd have a cord to deal with, and you still need bar oil.

You would want a strong back and legs to carry the weight,
probably would balance well with a 10 ft bar.

[lxskllr]

You would want a strong back and legs to carry the weight,
probably would balance well with a 10 ft bar.

I was first thinking having the battery in a pack would allow for a lighter saw, but that's not good either, cause the balance would be off with the longer bars. You'd have to add weights to the saw to get it to balance well.
Might be a fun idea to play with in a design shop. but I'm not sure you'd have anything workable when it's all said and done. Bar oil takes away a lot of potential convenience also. You'd still have to stop to "refuel". If you're carrying bar oil, you might as well carry fuel too.

[Greenerpastures]

You would want a strong back and legs to carry the weight,
probably would balance well with a 10 ft bar.

I was first thinking having the battery in a pack would allow for a lighter saw, but that's not good either, cause the balance would be off with the longer bars. You'd have to add weights to the saw to get it to balance well.
Might be a fun idea to play with in a design shop. but I'm not sure you'd have anything workable when it's all said and done. Bar oil takes away a lot of potential convenience also. You'd still have to stop to "refuel". If you're carrying bar oil, you might as well carry fuel too.

I would think any battery that's going to run a saw all day would be
more than heavy enough to balance a saw with a long bar, one could
also have some battery on the saw too, but either way won't be happening
anytime soon, and if it does, plan on spending 3 or 4 thousand on batteries a couple times a year.
I researched battery power a while ago, to charge with wind and solar,
any battery I could afford would still work out more expensive than just
using the power from the grid, and the type of battery in Question
was very heavy, I know there is new technologies out there for batteries,
but who can afford it, and it's still too heavy to take to the woods to
power a saw for a day, it's ok for small jobs, but unless a miracle happens
it won't be coming to the woods to fell forests.

[weimedog]

Always love the premise battery's have to have enough power to run long periods of time....really the price point has to be reasonable and have enough power to run for about as long as a gas saw does of a tank of gas....then swap batteries. And put one on charge. Might have two three even four and cycle them thru charging. I work from that premise. I literally work that premise with my Makita drill and impact drivers when building stuff around the farm. I really only needed the two batteries that came with that Makita set. The weight has to be reasonable (it is) and so is the run time between battery changes/charges. SO lets see how this works.

I have a Husqvarna 120i chansaw.  WITH a battery and charger it costs in the $260 range. Batteries. Right now they cost in the $125 range, list. Takes a while to recharge.  I go 35-40 minutes on a battery working that battery. SO lets say I have three batteries. So then I charge after the first one is used up...have a second and third ready while the first is charging. I would have $500 into the package. And don't have to ever by gas & two stroke oil for that saw. SO How long before the extra cost of the battery setup cross the cost of gas and oil? Because that's the metric I would expect when better and more capable battery powered saws hit the market. That vs. an 8hr battery setup. Think we are closer to that than folks think.....in the 50-60cc class power saws powered by batteries. And taking the "vector" of the last few years of development expect pro level offerings in the next 5 years is my guess.

And in addition to the never buying gas and two stroke oil is the fact storage of fuel and the deterioration of fuel supply parts doesn't happen. Not dealing with pull starts chokes....maintenance items like air and fuel filters. Spark plugs. All the cleaning because a gas powered saw sucks in air in a dirty environment...might be hard to put a dollar value on that but time is money.

Already small saws options and pole saw options make it harder to justify the cost of gas powered options, why is it a stretch to see this as a trend for larger saws? Tesla's changed the game for performance cars to...I still have a hard time watching them just eat up most performance cars in a drag race. I want the old muscle car concept to win....but they usually won't.

[doc henderson]

Stihl has a battery backpack that works with there tools, and think I heard it would run a weed eater all day, and could charge all night.  nothing is free including convenience.  and remember, batteries for now have a life span that runs out.  for now I use both.

[Greenerpastures]

Battery's do have to be big, Tesla knows a thing or two
and would have shrunk them if they could, Panasonic and
and the others too.
It will be a long time before anyone heads to the forest to cut
all day with a battery powered saw.

There are a lot of forces pushing towards battery vehicles,
right now there are only a few scattered publicly accessible
chargers to charge up when your flat. Can you imagine the
load on the power grid if we all ran electric vehicles, some
power companies already went into melt down because people
we're running container loads of computers mining crypto
currencies.
This electric revolution will cost people big time when they
discover the so far hidden costs, no one wants a second
hand electric car because the batteries only have a certain
amount of cycles, wait and see how that effects the price
of the new electric vehicle, when the current fleet of gas and
diesel cars are legislated off the roads.

The powers that be also know there is not enough of the
materials needed to have us all in electric cars, hows that
going to help, like buying a car in a Chinese city you need to
actually enter a lottery and wait your turn.

Back to chainsaws, you simply can't take a Micky mouse battery
saw to commercially fell trees, people even port their saws to
get more power.
From the minute you press the trigger on a battery saw it's all down hill,
change the battery, repeat the fiasco, you wouldn't earn enough money to buy your dinner at that crack.

[Southside]

So what happens when you are felling a tree with your battery pack, cord attached saw and she chairs? 

Drop the saw and run? Only as far as the cord. Throw the saw and run? Umm, nope.  Run with a saw in your hands and a lanyard around your feet? 

I don't see any back pack saw ever being a viable option for felling. 

Now for those who will say the cord will have a disconnect, well that would have to disconnect from both saw and backpack in the case of an emergency, and without any fiddling around, which means it won't stay on when walking through tops/brush, etc in the course of normal work. On top of that could you imagine trying to limb a pine with a cord attached to you and the saw? 

They have their place, and felling isn't it. 

[weimedog]

I don't see the big battery pack concept as viable as well out side the landscaping world of weed whackers, blowers, and trimmers. Prefer smaller batteries and changing them. Maybe hang a couple on a belt. Certainly safer than carrying a can of gasoline! Battery technology is about physics and manufacturing.....which more physics mixed with economics. More advances to come. And the size of the "useful" battery will depend on the amount of energy needed for the power and time required. So say arbitrarily enough to run a saw for 1/2 hour at "60cc" levels of power. THEN swap batteries as one would refill a gas tank. Really....don't think we are too far away from that...from what I hear..  SO if I can have a 555/562 class saw in weight and power running on batteries that are affordable / in the same cost class as a pro saw in that power class and those batteries last at least 1/2 hour....I'm all in. I'll let the rest of the world rationalize why that won't happen and when it shows up why it couldn't of happened. Kind of deja vue for me. I remember in the early 486 years why first pentium's couldn't happen for a reasonable cost, and then when they did, all the theoretical limitations based on architecture that would limit their usefulness.....now those 68000 based work stations are in the ash bin of cyber history and i7's rule the world in their many different configurations. If anyone thinks this is any different...I guess that's the difference between those who understand technology and those who just use it.

[doc henderson]

technology does advance but takes time and is based on other areas advancing.  Unless you work for the government, cost is also an issue.  many things great were developed for the military.the latest stuff costs more.  there has to be a reason.  current apps require more power and speed.  My first computer was an rs5000 with 5 k of ram, and a 10.5 inch floppy disc and took up the whole trunk of my camero back in 1980.  cost me 5,000 dollars.  price went down about 200 bucks a month. dos based.  I had to get a loan from the bank.  these were used to compare flex life to whole life insurance policies.  I think if the government offers cash for clunkers, I will keep my old chainsaws.  to get that power from a saw, not only the battery has to be strong, the motor must be powerful and reliable as well (heavy).  so companies will develop this if there is a paycheck at the end.  prob not affordable for a hobby guy in my lifetime.  good specialty application for areas of population (quiet), or areas of volatile environments (inside buildings search and rescue.)

[weimedog]

The hobby side of me has me running old Jonsered's for most of my cutting and probably for my life span. It's what I like to do...burn gas and two stroke oil. Boats....my old Mercury's from the 1970's. Motorcycles? My old 420 KTM is all I have left. Hated the switch to four strokes even though they evolved into more flexible race bikes over time. I worked for a motorcycle company when that was happening 2000-2002 time frames. I still like my two strokes. But as a former engineer who dealt in bleeding edge technology, in particular software and manufacturing; I just understand how infrastructures evolve over time with the interaction between politics, business, technology, the entire cabal. While the oil based economy will remain the primary driver of all things for our life time, the battery/capacitor concept as a device to store and carry energy around as an alternative to a volatile fuel has too may upsides for that concept to stay steady state. And predictably it hasn't. Too much opportunity there. Remember as all major infrastructure changes in history, huge amounts of resources are used and economies created. Rail to Highway, Land Line to Cell phone. Typewriter to lap tops. Going from gasoline to battery is one that has even more opportunities attached and for that reason alone the technology will follow to make it happen. Just too many drivers in play. AND the physics are in the ball park right now with more advances on the way, so it's  no longer a stretch to envision a workable solution.  So yeah, I get the "here and now" logic that is used to discredit the concept. But like I have said I have seen enough, heard enough, and understand enough to realize it's not if, its when. And if my sources are correct, its happening in my life time...even in my USEFUL life time. That's within the next 5-10 years. The optimists on that stuff think sooner like within a year, the pessimists...it will NEVER happen based on some assumptions on their current knowledge of physics, the realists....next 5 to 10 years there will be products on the market challenging for the pro market powered by batteries. AND it's already here when you see the landscape focused products already battery powered. I have heard from a reliable source one company ( Not our usual suspects in the saw world, a company with a solution looking for a problem) has something in prototype form that will challenge current saws, is it real? maybe, maybe not as I haven't seen it in person. Time will tell. After a year with my little Husqvarna 120i.....I believe it's possible. AND this year building a bunch of things around the farm and working in the shop with my Makita's.....those tools have certainly come a LONG way! I've evolved myself from a "probably not in my life time" to "it's closer than you would think" mindset.

[doc henderson]

initially it will be expensive.  so I stand by my statement "prob. not affordable for a hobby guy in my lifetime"  .  If it comes along I welcome it.  If the government gets involved and makes the decision to subsidize and or develop for the military, it will happen.  If the government throws billions of dollars at it and outlaws gasoline, it does not really count.  IMHO

[Ianab]

The battery cost gets spread if you have several tools using the same system. 

So you could have a chainsaw, lawnmower, hedge trimmer and leaf vac in the same system, and only 2 batteries. 

4 tools and two batteries works out a lot better than 4 tools and 8 batteries. Unfortunately the tool makers won't get together and agree on some ISO standard for batteries because they want to keep you tied to their brand. 

[Allar]

The biggest issue with battery tools is the cold climate. I would like to see how long the batterys will last in -30c.

[gspren]

I spent a career with and am now retired from the Army Research Laboratory and would think that while they probably aren't thinking chainsaws they are thinking drones and other things that are battery powered, this technology will trickle down to other items.

[weimedog]

The battery cost gets spread if you have several tools using the same system.

So you could have a chainsaw, lawnmower, hedge trimmer and leaf vac in the same system, and only 2 batteries.

4 tools and two batteries works out a lot better than 4 tools and 8 batteries. Unfortunately the tool makers won't get together and agree on some ISO standard for batteries because they want to keep you tied to their brand.

Take a look at both Husqvarna and Stihl's offerings ....and take a look over your shoulder if your a Husqy/Stihl type for that Makita company. AND there are more on the horizon.

[Ed]

I see Milwaukee is introducing an new battery/tool line.
One of the tools is a full size 14" cut-off saw...

I guess time will tell how it works into the chainsaw world.

Ed

[doc henderson]

we have prepared a site to pour a slab, and used my Stihl batt. 9 inch cut off saw to cut some steel and changed to a concrete blade to trim some border.  worked well for me doing just  a few cuts.  even used it to cut through sprinkler pipe that was in a trench and hard to get to otherwise.

[SwampDonkey]

They are even putting brush cutters and weed eaters out there now. But they are not powered like the pro model gas saws. How are you going to charge it 50 miles in the bush? Run a gasoline engine? How long does it need to charge to be usable in a useful sense. :

[doc henderson]

they are expensive but they have back pack batteries that can run 8 hours, but I agree they may not hold up to the abuse (work) you guys put equipment through.

[Ljohnsaw]

The battery in my ATV died so I went to Batteries+.  On the end cap of one isle was a display for Lion batteries.  They were something like 2.5x the price of an AGM.  I picked one up to look at it and the salesman said something like, isn't that amazing.  I said, yeah, but pricey - how much does a real one weigh, not this empty case.  He said, no, that IS a real battery!  I could not believe how light it was.

As far as field charging, a few years ago I picked up a charger for my DeWalt 20v batteries that plugs into a cigarette lighter.  I figured it might work ok.  I've been using it for several weeks while working up on my cabin.  I made a control station for my bath house - mechanical timmer for the pump (so I don't leave it on when I go home), various connections and switches for lights and charger plugs and a volt meter.  When I put a 5ahr battery on the charger, the little deep cycle battery I have drops a tenth of a volt (sometimes).  When I run the water pump, it will drop 1 to 2 tenths and maybe a 3rd as it hits max pressure but recovers when it shuts off.  I've charged 3 or 4 batteries overnight and seems to have no effect on the 12v battery.  This charger is what I would call a "fast charger".  It can charge a dead 5ahr battery in about 45-60 minutes.  The little 2ah in 15 or 20 mins.

So, I would have no qualms about running off my truck battery out in the field to support a chainsaw.

[Iwawoodwork]

What about a solar charger seems like that would work for a lot of applications. I have a 40 volt chain saw and am impressed by the amount of cuts it will make.

[Ianab]

He said, no, that IS a real battery!  I could not believe how light it was.

Lithium is about 1/20th the weight of lead, And MORE reactive, so can store more power in less space AND less weight. 

A solar panel / small storage battery would work for remote use, but a deep cycle battery in the back of the truck would recharge multiple batteries over the course of the day, and not risk running the vehicle main battery down. Recharge that overnight, and carry a couple of spare tool batteries. One in the saw, one on your belt, and 2 recharging in the truck. 

If you end up with an electric vehicle, it's battery would recharge the saw batteries maybe 100 times?

Electric motor power? This is still "rocket science" level, but the electric fuel pumps on the Rutherford rocket engine is about the size of a drink can and makes 50 hp, at 40,000 rpm. Now it's only designed to run for a few minutes, and it's cooled with liquid oxygen, but that's the sort of power that's now possible. 

[Spike60]

As far as this industry is concerned, looking at more than just saws presents a clearer picture. And it's really TWO industries, on a slow converging course. The traditional outdoor power companies and now the arrival of the battery tool companies all offering options to gas tools. The homeowner side of this where jobs can be done with short run time tools is quickly moving towards battery. This includes walk behind mowers. If your lawn can be mowed on a single charge, then it's a nice option.

What guys on forums like this usually don't get is how far ahead of the average consumer most of you are in being equipment savy. Most people are incapable of even basic maintenance or maintaining a fresh fuel supply. Even after repeated trips to the shop. These clowns moving up from NYC can't set a mouse trap or change a light bulb. Battery tools are by far the best option for these folks.

The thing few people talk about is that this stuff is still gonna break. And there's nowhere to get it fixed yet. "The light doesn't come on" "I push the button and nothing happens" "Is it the battery or the charger that isn't working" The boards and controllers are pretty pricey, so much of this stuff is still in a throw away category.

For cheap handheld at least. But people aren't going to throw away a $4000 battery tractor, or a $30,000 commercial zero turn. Somebody's got to fix them, and very few shops, including mine are up to speed on this stuff. (and at my stage of the game, that won't be happening   )  And what are we gonna do with the old batteries? Just to get involved with the Gravely battery units you are required to be a certified haz-mat shop to mess with the batteries. As has been mentioned above, there's an awful lot of hiddens that nobody wants to talk about.

[Al_Smith]

In the normal progression of things they just evolve .Some for the better some not so much depending on how you view it .Many things are built in such a way normal repairs are out of the question .Cheaper to replace than repair .Battery devices it's often times less expensive to replace the entire unit as a package then replace the two batteries it came with .It's by design these items all have different batteries by both voltage and package so they won't interchange . All that said they certainly are much more handy than using a hand saw or a brace and bit for small remote jobs .I mean after all this is 2021 not 1821 .