Introduction...and a Red Pine Question

[Red Horse Farm]

Hi everyone, new to the forum with a opening discussion and bit of an introduction -

As a boatyard owner and tug captain, the timber harvesting and marketing industry is far from my area of expertise, however I do have a reasonable amount of chainsaw/felling/equipment experience over the years.  I am a private landowner in Dedham, ME with about 150 acres of mixed hardwood & pine on family land & not here to be the next professional logger or forester, just a new landowner looking to play an active role in sustainably managing my property for recreation, hunting, trails for my horse farm, etc.  I'm a young guy at 32 so the goal is to make a little money to cover expenses, learn a little along the way, manage my property for future generations and admittedly, justify my equipment addition. 

On one property, I have about 1.5 acres of red pasture pine that borders a horse barn and small paddock.  It's right on a town dirt road and the access couldn't be better.  I'm tempted to clear it, stump it out and expand the paddock area unless there is a compelling reason to thin and keep some of the trees.  The second part of the question is for any members in Maine or northern New England as to what kind of market there is for a small quantity like this. 

I think I have attached some pictures - not sure if they went through

Thanks for taking the time to read, looking forward to spending some time here

[Red Horse Farm]

Here we go, helps to search and watch the video!




  

  

 

[Southside]

Welcome to the Forum, I am pretty sure those are not very recent photos!!   :D  To answer your question on the pine, try calling RJ Lloyd - Distinctive Timber Building Kits.  At least last I knew he was still sawing red pine just a bit west of you, Carmel area, but well within trucking distance for you.

Others can chime in as to the forestry impact of thinning vs clearing it if you want to retain some shelter / shade for the critters.  I would do some research into your soil structure before you stump that ground, if you have a lot of rock it will be hard and expensive to get decent grass to grow there.

Years back we would clear off an area, or heavily thin it, cut the stumps right down to ground level, then run cattle through it hard for a year or two feeding hay on the ground, throw some seed down and sit back and watch the grass explode.  The stumps would rot out in place and fill themselves in within a few years. 

[Red Horse Farm]

Ha!  Definitely not recent pictures.  Not sure but we're at least over 120" so far with another 8-10 this weekend. 

Thanks for the tips and input!

[thecfarm]

Red Horse Farm,welcome to the forum. I can't take pictures like that with at least one rock in it.  ;D

[coxy]

welcome to the ff     sorry I cant help you but there will be a lot of others that will    good luck with your adventure 

[Red Horse Farm]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys!  No worries, looking forward to poking around here learning what I can

[BargeMonkey]

 Red pine is like corn, when its time it all goes. Unless you leave a dense clump it will get wind blown and be down anyway. That looks decent sized, its a regional thing as far as size but we try and ship the better stuff for poles when we get it.
Who do you work for ? Im a chief on a boat based out of NYC.

[Red Horse Farm]

Red pine is like corn, when its time it all goes. Unless you leave a dense clump it will get wind blown and be down anyway. That looks decent sized, its a regional thing as far as size but we try and ship the better stuff for poles when we get it.
Who do you work for ? Im a chief on a boat based out of NYC.

Thanks, yeah that seems to be the consensus I'm getting - take it all or risk loosing what's left anyway.  It's really not a big stand, but they are all about the same size as pictured.  If I had the time, I'd use it to build a camp but it's just not a practical idea for me at this point. 

I've been with Moran for 7 years, McAllister before that.  Ran tractor tugs in the harbor for a few years, now on a wire boat doing cement & container barges.  Who are you with? 

[Straightgrain]

Welcome from one newbie to another...good plan, the situation you described appears to be a dream vacation to people like myself.

Years back we would clear off an area, or heavily thin it, cut the stumps right down to ground level, then run cattle through it hard for a year or two feeding hay on the ground, throw some seed down and sit back and watch the grass explode.  The stumps would rot out in place and fill themselves in within a few years.

That's the same advice I got and took 9 years ago and it worked very well for me.

Pine certainly-does age all at once (so to speak). Consider deciduous trees where sunlight would be welcomed in the winter and shade would be welcomed in the Summer (less wind-downs too).

I went in with a fruit and nut orchard where the South winds in the winter pushes evergreens that threaten the house. 

Addendum: I don't know it there is such a thing as Timber Deferral (for taxes) in your area, but you may have to re-plant to keep a reduced taxation status and avoid very stiff penalties (lightly described).

[dsgsr]

Welcome to the Forum Red Horse Farm, this place is full of Knowledge. I agree with the others, takem all at once or they'll blow over.

David

[barbender]

Red pine is our most commonly thinned species. In dense plantings that haven't been thinned properly, they do tend to blow over after a thinning. Yours don't look that spindly, but, if it is a real small patch it might not stand up to the wind either. It's hard to tell from pictures.

[Red Horse Farm]

Ok, looks like I'll be taking them all!  Cant deny I'm looking forward to a little harvest like this and increasing my paddock area, either.  Guess I'll begin looking for a buyer so they don't go to waste

I'm assuming I've just about missed my window for cutting now that the sap is running (or soon to be running)?  Or does it not matter so much if they aren't saw logs (which I don't know yet)?  The access is great, but my road is now posted and there's still 4-5' of snow in the woods which is too much for my equipment.  Maybe I should do it before the snow next winter. 

Appreciate all the input! 

[sandhills]

Sorry I can't help with the questions but welcome to the forum, looks like you have a beautiful place there!

[beenthere]

Ok, looks like I'll be taking them all!  Cant deny I'm looking forward to a little harvest like this and increasing my paddock area, either.  Guess I'll begin looking for a buyer so they don't go to waste

I'm assuming I've just about missed my window for cutting now that the sap is running (or soon to be running)?  Or does it not matter so much if they aren't saw logs (which I don't know yet)?  The access is great, but my road is now posted and there's still 4-5' of snow in the woods which is too much for my equipment.  Maybe I should do it before the snow next winter. 

Appreciate all the input!

When you cut them does not matter. 
But not having a buyer and having them dead piled for a long time does have its downside.

You have time to plan it out, no rush unless you need the space right away, as I understand it.

[barbender]

It doesn't matter when you cut them for saw logs, but they can't be piled for long in anything but winter weather. Red pine will blue stain quickly, our local Potlatch stud mill doesn't accept stained pine. Most MN DNR summer pine sales stipulate a time frame in which the wood has to be hauled, because the pine beetles can multiply rapidly in the piled wood and come out in sufficient numbers to kill the remaining pine. Nothing good comes from having pine in a pile in warm weather.

[Red Horse Farm]

Gotcha, that definitely makes sense - I certainly wouldn't even begin a cut until I had a buyer lined up.  The staining was what I had heard before, good to know the particulars. 

Thanks again

[Clark]

I'm not sure if you were looking for advice or just trying to get affirmation that you should cut it all? It looks like you made up your mind pretty quickly about cutting it all because two other guys said they would.

As barbender mentioned, red pine is thinned around here. It has proven to be one of the better investments in forestry up here. Take the smallest stuff first, give the nicest trees room to grow and it will add girth quickly. If it is a small patch I wouldn't worry about it blowing over as most of the trees tend to grow up experiencing the wind. Take about 1/3 of the trees and you'll be on the path to growing trees that one day your grandkids will admire.

Clark

[Ron Scott]

 Ditto! We thin red pine regularly here also. Usually to 90-120 sq. ft. BA by row thinning usually every 3rd row and selectively harvesting between rows The remaining topwood is often chipped on the larger acreages.

[dsgsr]

I've never seen a big (above 12-14" DBH ) Red Pine in Maine. We grow and groom White Pine here.

David

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Red Horse Farm.   8)

[BEEMERS]

Welcome to the FF!! Ive seen redpine overly thinned and in two years they had to do a salvage cut to clear out what was lost to windthrow..and to get the rest because it was coming down as well...but mostly around here the redpine is thinned and rarely see any windthrow...Infact the plantation pine is planted to densely to allow for this thinning.
The difference I believe is not to over thin and to have someone who knows when to stop..or knows the formula.Ron Scott said 90-120 sq. ft. BA..maybe that's it.What does the BA stand for?
I wouldnt be afraid to thin..but scared  as heck to overthin and lose the rest,thats if keeping some mattered that much to me...and that's something only you can weigh out..how attached to this little stand are you? See what theyre worth to start with, that might influence your decision,especially if there is not much value.

[1270d]

BA- Basal Area

[BEEMERS]

so...90-120 sq. ft. Basal area....Im still lost.. :-[

[thecfarm]

I have some red pine growing on my land. I hope it don't spread too much. My land grew some mighty BIG white pine and more are coming.