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Diesel Fuel Additive

Started by Magicman, August 24, 2018, 02:13:44 PM

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Magicman

I just recently replaced my sawmill engine with an engine built waay before today's strict fuel/emission standards.  This '97 vintage engine was certainly not designed for today's low sulfur fuels "ULSD" which reportedly lack the lubricity of the old fuels.  With that thought in mind I decided to do some research to decide if and what fuel additive that I might need.  It never gets cold enough here for fuel to gel so that is not even a thought.

Opti-lub seemed to be on top of every study but Stanadyne was always close in the lubricity tests.  Stanadyne was always higher than Amsoil, Power Source, Howe's, & Lucas.


 
I didn't find any Opti-Lube so Sandadyne it was.  It only needs ~¼oz. per gallon and I normally fill my fuel jugs with 4½ gallons of Diesel so to make it simple my jugs will get 1oz.

No, I do not expect to see any difference whatsoever with the engine's performance, but just hope that the unseen will make a difference.  On a side note this is also the same fuel that goes in my old '72 model 1530 John Deere, so maybe it will also be happy.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

scsmith42

Lynn, a local "crusty old diesel mechanic" recommends putting a few quarts of non detergent 30 weight oil in a 500 gallon fuel tank to increase the lubricity of the oil.

He has used this on old military equipment, heavy equipment, etc where the injectors started to freeze up on ULSD.  It typically restores the performance.

YMMV.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Lawg Dawg

So...would you recommend adding some to my old JD 4000 Diesel?

 
2018  LT 40 Wide 999cc, 2019 t595 Bobcat track loader,
John Deere 4000, 2016 F150, Husky 268, 394xp, Shindiawa 591, 2 Railroad jacks, and a comealong. Woodmaster Planer, and a Skilsaw, bunch of Phillips head screwdrivers, and a pair of pliers!

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Banjo picker

I buy the two cycle oil mix and put one ounce per gal.  If you are only using 1/4 oz per gal. your additive may be cheaper in the long run. Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Southside

Lynn, you won't see any performance difference, but your injection pump will thank you for the lubrication. Personally I use two cycle oil in my older equipment as an additive. It has worked well. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
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mike_belben

Praise The Lord

rjwoelk

I have a 1965 3120 and a 1990  7120 CIH  we use the fuel as it comes from the refinery. They must be adding a lub to it there. Never a problem.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

GRANITEstateMP

  We use ATF as an additive in all the older tractors on the farm, and the 8.2L powerhouse Detroit in the C70 Truck (if you've ever driven an 8.2 then you know I may have been a bit flowery on their abilities...).  Just add a "bit" when fueling up, as an additive.  It's cheap and around anyways.  It would make WAY too much sense to pour some into the big fuel tank before they drop off a load.  We're not into that much forethought!  ;D
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LeeB

Good reminder. I usually dump a jug of conditioner in my tank when I get it filled. I haven't done it this time. Now if I can only remember that until I get home.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Magicman

One site that I looked at described doing the "wear scar improvement" test to compare different formulas and concoctions to evaluate their lubricity abilities.  They compared motor oil, ATF, 2 cycle oil, and many of the commercial products.  I chose to use a product that was high on the list for providing engine protection because both of my Diesel engines were manufactured before the advent of the newer ULSD fuel.

As Southside logger said, I will never see the difference, if any.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Runningalucas

The diesel forum I'm a member at, always has these 'best lubricant' threads.  The stanadyne is usually near the top, if I recall so was regular ATF, but what were no no's were 2 cycle oils, and also WMO.  I don't think in the states there's any metal in the 2-cycle oil, but apparently many places there are.  So you gotta pay attention to I guess the ingredients, and ratings. 

I figure for the trouble, I'll just use ATF, and the Stanadyne; oh, I also use Magic Mystery Oil; a little in the fuel, and a little in the engine oil.

With the old mechanical diesels, they'll run more, a LOT more fuel alternatives, just like they're more forgiving for running the wrong fuel, but any metals in any additives will cake up on your injectors, and pump. 
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mike_belben

Waste veggie oil and waste motor oil
Praise The Lord

Magicman

I would do some serious investigating and research before I put either in my Diesel engine.  Matter of fact I have and would not consider either.  I am not telling or making any suggestions to anyone regarding what they should or should not use, just sharing what my research told me to use.

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

celliott

Good to know ATF is acceptable. I always have some around for the Clark trans, I'm sure the 4-53 won't mind some too.
Top off the transmission and the fuel tank :D no it doesn't leak that bad.
Chris Elliott

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Banjo picker

Just don't put ATF in a truck you are going to drive down the road.  DOT don't take kindly to red fuel.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

mike_belben

I been brewing and running wvo since 2009.  My dodge 12v had about 40k of pure wvo miles in a two tank heated system i built.. No real problems.   I blend in my stock fuel system on the international now.  Dt466 with 10mm bosch mw pump.

Most issues come from people who dont know how to filter and dewater, then want to run thru late model electronic diesels.  Old bosch pumps are pretty happy on it.  Golden rule is keep it away from copper and brass.  Even mild steel will polymerize plant oils tho much slower.  There are definitely a lot of wrong ways to run wvo actually.

Ive never done wmo.  
Praise The Lord

Magicman

My research said:

Can I use ATF (automatic transmission fluid) as a lubricant in my fuel?
Since October 1993, some diesel end-users have tried adding automatic transmission fluid (ATF) to diesel fuel to improve the fuel's lubricity. According to the U.S. Army's quarterly fuel and lubricant bulletin (March 1994), laboratory testing using the Ball-on-cylinder lubricity evaluation (BOCLE) had shown that the addition of ATF to a low sulfur fuel does not improve the fuel's lubricity rating. Moreover, the presence of ATF in fuel can adversely affect other performance properties of diesel fuel.


ATF (AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID)
"It is not a good practice and likely will cause far more problems than it could solve. Using ATF in this way is something of an "old truckers tale" and has been used on everything from Volkswagens to Class 8 trucks. Another erroneous strategy is to add old or new engine oil for lubricity. The problem with these "additives" is they are specifically designed to resist high temperatures and burning. As a result, if they are added to diesel fuel they leave behind ash, heavy metals, and other deposits that can easily cause costly damage to fuel injectors and other sensitive engine components."


Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mike_belben

Quote from: Banjo picker on August 25, 2018, 09:59:17 PM
Just don't put ATF in a truck you are going to drive down the road.  DOT don't take kindly to red fuel.  Banjo
That is true but your chances of getting tanks dipped in a passenger truck is extremely small or id be in trouble.  Even class 8 trucks dont get dipped very often unless in a level 1 inspection which isnt terribly common.
Praise The Lord

Southside

If there are any filling stations around you that sell biodiesel in the B20-B99 range I would give it a try.  There is a station on I-80 in Missouri that sells B-99 and my truck has never run as good as it does on that stuff.  Reduced engine noise, improved fuel mileage, I am sold on that stuff.  Around here we have E-85 garbage at the pump but no bio-diesel that I am aware of.   
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Runningalucas

WMO, needs to be centrifuged to get the heavy metals, and particulates out.  I know a lot of guys swear by ATF for getting gummed up injectors, and other mechanical injection parts freed up; I've personally done this.  You can go read any mechanical injected diesel forum page, and the ATF is usually the first thing to get into a diesel engine that's sat for a long time; take the fuel filter off, fill it, crank the engine a little, and let it sit for 24 hours.

I'm thinking the 'don't use it, and it won't make a difference' is on the newer electronic/common rail engines.  These engines cost bookoo bucks when there's anything in the new low sulfur diesels; not a good thing for gas to be pumped into them.
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

barbender

The ball scar test I read had better results for biodiesel than any other additive, so it's great for lubricity. Our diesel in MN is all blended at least 5% bio, I don't worry about adding anything else at all except anti-gel additives in the winter. From what I understand, ULSD has lubricant reblended into it at the refinery. If they didn't, it would take the pump out of any diesel, whether new or old. I think all the concern about it is much ado about nothing, or even worse, folks get so concerned about a non existent problem that they create a real one by dumping junk in the fuel tank that doesn't belong there. My 02😊
Too many irons in the fire

petefrom bearswamp

Lots of quoting of empirical studies  and OMTs (old mechanics tales) on this thread
I use a commercial treatment only on the late fall and early spring as I dont saw in the winter.
Dont know the brand.
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Magicman

Yes barbender, I read some of the same thing last night.  Biodiesel is always at the top of the list, and I also read that early on with the ULSD there was a lubricity problem but now the  proper lube is being added at the refinery or wherever to protect today's engines.

So my concerns were for naught and once again the knowledge level of the FF surpasses hype.  Now I have a $33 jug of Stanadyne that I guess that I will go ahead and use and chalk it up to lesson learned.  :P
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Southside

Magicman - just asking - but when you say todays engines are protected, does that include the older technology like most are speaking of?  My understanding is that the metal in those older pumps and injectors is not as hard as the late model ones, thus the issues with wear given the lack of lubrication.   
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

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