Clean-up tools - development advice

[Quince]

I have about 550-600 yards along the river that I want to clean-up. About 150-200 yards is at a lower elevation (still 5+feet above the river) and has a lot of fallen trees to the point that you cannot even walk along the river without constantly climbing and jumping over them. They basically blocked the natural drainage and the entire area feels soft with wet spots. All I have to work with now is a 22" Husqvarna chainsaw, a shovel and my old bones. I need to buy something to drag trees out and eventually do some digging, move soil... maybe set up a French drain. This is not something I need to do in one month or year so I am not looking at professional companies, bulldozers, excavators or so. I am thinking a good ATV with some auxiliary tools or an old Ford tractor, something on that line. I will retire in 3-4 years and I will have the time to slowly do the work, enjoy the outdoors and stay in shape at the same time. I will appreciate any help that you could provide by recommending equipment, brands and any ideas or procedure that you had good or bad experience with. I am also very active planting and any recommendation on what may be beneficial to plant from herbs to trees is very welcomed. This property is in Central Lower Michigan, lots of sand and clean beautiful water. Thank you everybody. (PS: I tried to add a photo but I got an error message.Sorry)

[thecfarm]

Quince,welcome to the forum.
Sounds like a good project. Bigger equipment would do it quicker,but smaller euipment will be less costly. A 40 foot tree can be cut into small sections to be winched out. Even 4 foot sections work,just slower. Digging around a water way is frowned on in this area. But if no one can see what you are doing. If you clean up the river side,something will grow back. I myself would let Mother Nauture handle that part.

[samandothers]

Quince, welcome!  Sounds like you have some fun times ahead!

Though a different price point I would suggest a tractor over a 4 wheeler.  The 4 wheeler is just not heavy enough to winch or pull in my experience.  

I bought a 700cc unit and added a winch.  Depending on size of what you plan to winch and pull the 4 wheeler may be to light to over come the drag created by log or whatever.  After a year working with the 4 wheeler I bought a 40 hp tractor with 4 wheel drive.

Now I can pull the logs. With loader and grapple I can lift and move wood and brush.  After clearing I can bushhog.  I use an attachable backhoe to remove some smaller stumps and clear debris.  I also have an auger for post work.  I could till and plant.

Now if you want to move around your land more quickly and do light stuff an rtv/utv may be handy, but tractor is a working machine and my first choice, again IMHO.

[Quince]

What tractor did you buy samandothers? New, used, and how much did it cost? How did you pick this particular one from the other brands/models available? Did you buy the loader and backhoe separately or did they come as a package? I will try again to load a picture and if it works, I am pretty sure the tractor will get the vote. At this stage, when it comes to information, I am a big dry
sponge.

[Quince]

Just an answer to create an album

 

 

 

 

 

[Quince]

Thecfarm, generally I let Mother Nature do the planting-growing job but in this case I am trying to start some trees that I know my honey bees will love and some berries and other plants that I love. I am also considering chestnut trees since I understand that we finally have something resistant to the Chinese bug/bore, some Sea Buckthorn ... stuff that I can eat or drink... ;D

[thecfarm]

I have places in my woods that look like that,really acres of it. That is why I bought a OWB. I needed to burn that dead wood and cedar and soft wood,and get some heat out of it. I was burning it in a pile. But those piles would burn for almost a week.
And what state are you from?

[mike_belben]

Your cedars are all leaning over the water until they fall because they are seeking light in an otherwised closed canopy.  They cant help it, the sun hits that side, stimulates growth and adds mass that bends the trunk further and further until the saturated ground cant hold the root ball any longer and it gives out during some wind or flood event. 

Trees do this everywhere that a dense closed canopy exists. Over a powerline clearing or a pasture fence, pond or house in the woods.   

The cure to it for FUTURE growth is clearing a row of trees on THE OTHER SIDE of the edge trees so that they grow evenly upward or outward instead of bending over the clearing for light.

In the meantime youve got your work cut out for you.  The stuff thats down and beyond your interest in salvaging will rot faster if you cut it into short sections that lay flat on the ground.  Bugs and fungus will eat them up and convert them back to humus then top soil.  And you can do all that now with just a saw.  As you open up pathways just leave the stuff right where it is or barely out of the way.  Driving over it in the future is almost as good as a tiller putting manure in the field.  Work on what you can now to make the mechanized work to come later easier on you then.  

If you arent looking to remove long logs, a 4wd quad and small trailer can do a lot.  And unlike heavy equipment, getting them out when theyre sunk to the seat isnt all that bad.  Equipment and swamps have created plenty of jobs for the recovery industry.   What you need really depends on what you aim to do with the stuff.  And the economic feasibility is determined a lot by your budget.  If youve got the money and want your 4wd front end loader toy then go get it and enjoy.  If you dont have the money, pause and be sure you really NEED to fiddle with this land beyond your present means.  I see no logging fortune to be made in your current photos to pay for the equipment.  


But that is ofcoarse your business entirely.  You can go a long way with a saw and a desire to make a change out there.

[samandothers]

Quince,
I purchased a Kubota L4240 with loader and back hoe in HST model, also a bush hog. Was 30k in 2007.  It has been a great tool and glad I did it.  Have had 0 problems with it.  Recently saw a 275 hour 2015 L4600, I think, on Craigslist locally for a little more.

If I was looking today I'd check out Kubota, Kioti, Mihandra and others with local dealers.  I might try to go for a bit more power.  The grapple is a great tool but it's weight takes a bit of the lift capacity.  I have had some logs I could lift enough to drag but not enough to set on the Woodmizer.  This has only happened a few times with large and long poplar and a 36" SYP.

The loader control is located in a very comfortable position and I like the third function valve toggle for the grapple open/close on the loader knob.

Find dealers test them out and look for deals!

[Quince]

 

 
Presently I live close to Cleveland just because 5 years ago I got a job offer I couldn't refuse. However, the property is in "Pure Michigan" where I cannot wait to return when I retire. Bought it last October and I already planted 40-50 different trees, vines... By OWB you mean an outdoor wood burner? And what are you "cleaning up" with in terms of equipment?

[Quince]

Thank you Mike-belben. Your evaluation gives me a logical starting point to come up with a plan of action.
Also thank you Samandothers. Glad I joined the forum.

[DDW_OR]

.........my honey bees will love ...........

trees and bees, can it pay to plant cover crops in young forests? in Alternative methods and solutions

[DDW_OR]

my cleanup tool list.

Mahindra 5520 4x4 tractor. 51 Hp
pallet forks for the front end loader (FEL)
Farmi 501 PTO winch. 11,000# pull, and 7 choker chains

next time i will get one of these
Skidding Winches | Wallenstein Outdoor Power Equipment
It has a receiver hitch to tow a trailer

and a 8,000 pound excavator with thumb and 3 buckets
a frost tooth ripper, to remove stumps

and chainsaws and chainsaw chaps
Echo 310
Husqvarna 45
Homelite 120v electric chainsaw
cant-hook
electric chain sharpener


 

 

 

 

 

[thecfarm]

Correct on the OWB.
I a NH 40 hp with a norse 3 point winch on the back and a loader on the front is my clean up tool.
 I did this a few months back.

http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=102708.0

A 40 hp does good,could always use more hp,but money does tell a person to stop too.
A 30 hp could and can do a lot. BUT you're saying backhoe,digging. So I would think at least a 40hp. But I have no idea. Never been around a tractor/backhoe. Get 4 wheel drive,no matter what.From what you are saying,it's wet and slopes towards the river.
Not downgrading Kubota,but no dealer that I went too could get me parts in a timely fashion. I would have to wait 2 weeks for parts.  :      NH,if they don't have it,can get the part in 3 days.
Those cedar will not rot either. I have some in the woods that I haul out and use for firewood. Some will have moss growing on them,but they make heat. ;D
With a 3 pt winch and 150 feet of cable,you should be able to stay on dry ground. I did cut a bog off one year. I hooked about 100 feet onto the 150 feet on the winch. That was ALOT of walking. But I cut it.
I have dug out rocks 3 feet across with my tractor. Not a good idea to do this. It's not made to do it.

[DDW_OR]

and you could rent an Excavator for a week
$1,000 to $2,000, depending on size

[Clark]

You need to be careful doing work along waterways. There are set backs for the logging industry, sometimes voluntary and sometimes mandatory, that limit how close they can operate next to a body of water. It would be smart to keep your operations set back a little because the more you clear along the river, the more you change it and the more likely you are doing something illegal.

It's unlikely you will change the soft, wet nature of the ground next to the river. I would guess there is very little topographic change on your property and the wet areas are too close (vertically) to the water table. Not that you can't make a decent trail along the river but keep expectations in check. Land tends to hold water when there is little topographic relief and it's next to a body of water. Wet spots will likely continue to be wet spots and trying to change that is difficult and fraught with complications. Changing the trail is a better option.

I partially disagree with Mike. Cedar tend to blow over, as one of your pictures shows, and then start regrowing in the classic "cow horn" form. This is very common in wet areas. Sure, they grow heavier on the sunnier side but much of what I see is the result of trees being tipped over and continuing to grow.

Clark

[btulloh]

It's unlikely you will change the soft, wet nature of the ground next to the river

If you're not careful with machinery the wet ground will change you.  Trouble happens fast when you get a track or wheel on the soft stuff next to a pond or river.  Ground seems solid and then all of a sudden it's not.

[mike_belben]

No im totally in agreement with you clark, theres always variables and exceptions.  I used to live near a white cedar bog and the stems that werent jammed upright by others often laid down then sent shoots upright.  

Here tulip poplar does it very quickly.  I hinge them for structure a lot

[TimRB]

For what it's worth, I have one of these things:

Home page | Portable Winch

and love it.  Not cheap, but I think you would find it very handy for a project such as you have ahead of you.

Tim

[Quince]

Tim, that looks really good. I only found distributors in Canada and I didn't see a price. Not a real issue, but I very seldom buy what I cannot touch, feed and evaluate in detail. When in historical buildings, Cathedrals etc. where people are admiring paintings and statues, I see forces and stress lines running through the structural part of the building. On machinery or tools I follow edges to feel sharp corners and burrs so I evaluate quality. Professional handicap; here are some of the machines I designed before my present job.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjsB1eYm
I can improvise, use mechanical advantage and have fun with a Harbor Freight winch and one of my trucks or an ATV.
DDW_OR, thank you for the link to the bee subject post. I sent a message to that gentlemen but I see he did not post since Jan.2018. However, I got the idea and I am researching the seed market.
Clark and Btulloh, I will pay attention both to the legal issues and also safety; Michigan is all sand and saturated sand can feel like concrete under a certain load and it turns to a sinking hole as you add weight.