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square saw chain

Started by Woodboogah, March 02, 2014, 11:00:56 AM

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Woodboogah

Anyone on the East coast using square chain.  I'm thinking about trying it.  I have heard it last longer in dirty wood.  I figure there will be a learning curve sharpening.  I know its used on the West coast and would like to hear from anyone who uses it and the pros and cons.  Thanks
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

thenorthman

it cuts fast, but I don't think it lasts long at all in dirty wood.  Knot bumper saw runs round file, while my falling and bucking saws run square.

The files are kinda spendy, and the grinders are overpriced, but it does make cutting very fast, and in clean wood they last way longer than round.  But dirt like I said is no good for em.
well that didn't work

CCC4

I have used several loop os square filed chain. I like it just fine. Have used it in pine and hardwood. Really really smooth cutting. In my opinion, they don't stay sharp as long as round filed flat top chains. The biggest issue for me is I don't pack in 10 chains...so I stump file several times a day. Sharpening square filed is just not something I want to do in the bush. If you want to try square filed you can start out with a regular round filed chain and re-cut it to suit your needs. I would suggest NOT buying Oregon square filed chain...just my opinion but Oregon doesn't give near enough lead for my taste.

If yu need any square filing videos just hollar, I know a bunch of guys that are VERY good at square filing. Good luck.

Dave Shepard

Square filed chain, the kind that uses a double bevel chisel bit file, hates dirt. As soon as that sharp corner is dull, it's all over. It is my preferred chain, but it is special order around here. I have no problem filing it in the woods, but I file differently than you are "supposed" to file it. I file the same direction as round chain, not into the chrome like most people do.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Nemologger

Yes it does cut good but won't stay sharp as long. Plus as the other guys mentioned its kinda hard to file, to do it right anyway. My preferred chain is full chisel sharpened with a round file.
Clean and Sober

BargeMonkey

 I tried it, found it wasnt worth the money. Files are expensive, and its a bit of a pain to get just right. A sharp new round file and knocking down the drags depending on wood species and saw size is the better choice. Square is really only meant for dropping, its not supposed to be an all purpose chain, thats what ive been told.

lumberjack48

Dirty wood, stay with semi chisel filed at 20 dergrees
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Ed_K

I run it on the big saw used for dropping big trees.Limbing and landing saws have rnd ground.I don't buy chain already sqr ground,I recut them with the double bevel file (goofy file @ Bailey's)I found it easier to file with the bar nose pionting at me and fileing down the front edge.
Like LJ48 said not good around dirt.
Ed K

colincb183

I agree with semi chisel for dirty wood. Never used square chain but i would think it would be easier to dull, always wanted to try it though

Farmer Todd

Square file chain cuts better all the way around. Cuts better when it's wood dull then round file. But it sucks if you smoke a rock.  Just a bigger learning curve but keep at it  and one day you will say this thing is cutting

CCC4

For my own personal gains and the OP's I would like to further this discussion. I would like to start out by saying that I am pretty much on the fence about the square filed. I honestly have not been blown away by the gains of a square filed chain. I have used out of the box Oregon square filed and was not impressed what so ever. I did nothing to the loop, just put it on, walked over to cut a tree and like to have stressed myself to death over wondering if I was going to get through my back cut quick enough. About 15 minutes with that chain...I pushed a round file through it and put some angle on the cutters.

I got a few loops from guys who I would consider very knowledgeable in square filing and they ground me some loops to try. The first loops I ran on a 30" bar with the 660, in fire charred pine. It cut great! The fire char was rough on them and I think I fell 8 good sized pine before it lost it's edge.

Next loops I got from a guy in the PNW, I ran the 30" on the 660 and cut a dead standing 4ft+ white oak. The old tree was a field grown tree and really tough grained hard as a rock tree. The cut went well, chain held up well. Seemed like it cut in a quick pace considering the tree.

So....from the loops I have run and the timber I have cut with a square filed chain....do I feel as if I would take the time and master hand filing square filed? My answer is no. I can put of videos with a timer of me using both style chains and I will promise you the round did as well or faster than the square filed I personally used.

Now I am not "selling" anything or am out to impress anyone with what chain I use but I just don't think that for me, there just isn't enough gain for me to bother with learning to square file.

Here, try and guess which chain is used in each video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=058n8v-B29Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxxXV_8BJdc


redprospector

Square chisel isn't for everyone, I've learned that. It is however noticeably faster than round chisel if set up right. It DOES NOT stand up well to dirt, or rock, or any of the other stuff that a saw chain shouldn't come in contact with.  :D
I do a little saw racing, and loggers rodeo's, and I'll tell you now that if you show up with any kind of round filed chain there you will get your hat handed to you.
A good square chain is impressive, but like I said, it's not for everyone.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Woodboogah

I appreciate everyone's replies.  I think I will shy away from it for now.  Maybe down the road I will try it out.  Thanks again
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

barbender

I hit enough stuff, dirty bark and all that, that I prefer semi-chisel. It just keeps a working edge so much longer.
Too many irons in the fire

tom h

i have ran square saw chain from oregon chain semi skip with 8 tooth sprocket for over 5 years mainly cutting oak and really like it . as has been said it does not  like dirt.

thenorthman

Out of the box square ground chains are duds, both Stihl and Oregon (mostly Oregon...)  However once you have the technique down, after the first filing the square is noticably faster then round.  The problem lies in that square is harder to file consistently, it takes some practice, which most of us don't really have time for.  But I've been running square for about a year now, filing time is about on par with round now, except every 3-4 filings ya gotta go back and clean out the gullets.  Pay attention to your angles, and where the corner of the file is hitting, it should be hitting the corner of the tooth.

Then I plan on having my own grinder in a few weeks... so it doesn't really matter anymore ;D  The ground chains, I had a guy do a few months/weeks ago (a day is a vistigial mode of time measurment...) where wicked awesome, but waiting a week or two to get some chains sharpened is not ideal...
well that didn't work

Big Rooster

I'm out west in Montana and use square ground on my falling saw and round on my deck saw.  To reiterate everyone else never use square ground in dirty wood.  In clean wood and high volume sawing it makes up a lot.  A square ground chain cuts like butter no grabbiness, 40-60 trees per tank (tree length), and cuts seem to match perfectly with the ease of cutting.  I hand file and it is a commitment to learn.  In 2006 I probably took a 30% pay cut on production sawing as i was learning to hand file.  If you rock a chain most of my time I just throw it away as it takes 2-3 files to get it back cutting great and uses up a $7 file plus 30-60 minutes of total file time, so I always throw a new chain on if rocked bad.  A wood dulled square chain is easy to file.  Straight out of the box they are dull, 4 strokes on the rakers and 3 light stokes on your corner, plus you have to deal with the gullets every 5 sharpenings.  Some of the guys use grinders but then you gotta grind every night or two after work and if it is just slightly wood dull do you want to throw a brand new sharpened chain on? 

But man oh man it does cut nice!!!!!!!!!!!

redprospector

 

 
Just incase there's someone who has never seen one up close.  ;D
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

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