Re: Think'n bout goin orange

[music_boy]

     All good advice and perspectives ya'll. :P  I'm not in a position to choose logs. One of the ideas behind getting into this was the access to downed logs no one wants. I can choose from them. Customers coming out of the woodwork :D :D, may or may not happen and I still have a full time job. Maybe custom sawing as a part time retirement subsidy :
     Anyway,  my lack of experience\knowlege and wanting to spend the least amount to get a mill has me where I am. If I go up, I don't want to make the same mistakes again. I may have to resign myself that the little mill is it. I could rig this mill to make things easier. (probably will) But that won't slove the larger log problem.
      I like the idea of a used Lt 30. Seem you could get that with some of the nicer packages for what a new Lt27 would go for. Bout the extent of my money capabilities too. It is an awful lot of money for a personal mill. Probably will never recoup my investment. Not looking to. Worst case scenario,(I have some health issues right now, bad shoulder and knee) I'll sell it and chalk the loss up to whatever lumber I have, I did something I wanted to do, had a blast, met some way cool people on this forum, and ,,,,,,,,I'll bet I don't loose too much on the resale value of a Woodmizer. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanks
Rick

[D._Frederick]

MusicBoy,
If I was going to up-date from my manul mill that I can now saw a 28inch X 27ft log, I would go for the biggest diameter sawing capacity. You will always have a swell-butted log that you cannot saw. Unless you are doing a lot of custom sawing, the extra length will not be used much. Go for the hydraulic log handling equipment over diesel engines and computor set-works, if you are short on $$. A $15 calculator will do what a $3000 computor will do on your mill.

[music_boy]

I'm finding out real fast that this 18" Hudson, ain't gonna do alot of what I want to do. My truck will soon be paid offf, and I don't think my wife will leave me till our 13 year old daughter is out on her own. So, that means I would have it paid off and could hide it prior to the D>I>V>O>R>C>E> :D :D :D :D :D
    I need a saw large enough to be able to come up with quartersawn bookmatched sets. Bout 8.5 wide oughta do. I do need some log handling capabilities as I work alone and I'm gettin up there. Got a little artheritis that gets aggrivated with picking up logs >:(
     An lt25 is a short 27. A lt 30 is a short 40. I see the different options available. I'm not doing 21' logs! Manuvering a bandmill down a n old trail is something that would serve me well. So, what would be the advantages of an lt 25 vs. the lt 30 other than an extra 4" on the log diameter? Simple setworks sounds worth while but not sure the added expense is worth it. Log turner sounds good too. Guess I outa price it out to see hugh? :'(
Just dreamin
Rick

[Wes]

Get one thats practical and you can afford not one that you can practly afford. :D

Once you go orange you wont go back. 8)

Wes

[Brian_Bailey]

Rick,  

Save yourself some money an skip the simple setworks, put it towards a mill with hydraulics. The scales on the mill are more than sufficient.

[Tom]

Brian's right unless you are planning on doing repetitive  production work.  Eight hours reading a scale and doing the math for the next board makes you awful tired.

Sawing only for yourself give you all kinds of price-break options that may be necessary if you you were sawing for the general public and concerned about Production per hour.

Board width is important when you are trying to get your stuff out of Urban wood.   Most of these trees are huge.  Once you get out of the "push mill" market most mills will produce a 20" board and take a 30" dia. log.

Length is important for two reasons. The first is that a customer will generally want 16' stuff but will invariably ask for 20' lengths and may go somewhere else to find it.  Sawing for yourself, you are in control and that makes it a lot easier.

The other reason is that it is easier to hit the mark loading a log on a longer mill.  Loading a 16 ft log on a 16ft mill or a 20 ft log on a 20 foot mill means that you have to pay very special attention to getting the log on just right.  It's a lot of work once the log is on the bed to find that the log is beneath the blade and the blade can't be brought back any farther.  It is also a pain in the neck to hit the end of your mill and find that the blade hasn't exited the log.

If one cuts 16 foot stuff regularly then it is very convenient to have a 20 foot mill.  It makes a good target.   If you are only cutting cabinet wood and your logs are 8 to 12 feet long, then a 16 foot mill is convenient.

The most important thing is the log handling. One should do away with as much physical labor as he can.  Hydraulics let you sleep a lot better at night.

The second most important thing is horsepower.  While most any engine will drive a band it takes some horses to do it efficiently.  I've run a 15 horse LT30 and a 24 horse LT40.  There is a good deal of difference in the ability of the mill to drive through wavy grain, knots, hard wood and still utilize the potential of the blade.  I saw with a 38 horse diesel now and it is, hands down, more efficient than the 24 horse.  I can wade through 20 inch logs with the same effort as I used to use to cut 12 inch logs.  You utilize more of your blades life because you don't have to baby it.  My 24 horse, many times, would bog before I had the blade doing all it could do.  Still, the 24 horse sent me home ready for supper.  I guess a factor to consider is "time per board".  :D    Do you need to  cut 2000 feet per day or will your needs be met with 800 or 1000 feet per day.    Why oversize the mill if you aren't going to cut for the public?

[J_T]

Don't know anything about band mills but I know it is easer to put a little log on a big mill than a large log on a small mill . From experance if you have a mill coustermers will come out of every where.I started mine to cut hobby wood so far I have cut none .I sawed lumber for my saw shed and sold it both times 8) Funney thing if I was trying to sell lumber I proubly couldn't.Love it. ;D

[austinworks]

Rick

I looked at the LT 15, 27 and 40 at the western Pa WM location last week - they were impressive, and once you've made the mental leap it seems easy to get scaled up. Hmmmm for 6K I get this, 10k lots more, maybe an LT40 will fit in the garage.

I think the question is how much sawing you will be doing for customers with different needs than yours. If the logs you have are solid you might get are solid you may be able to get 8.5 inch bookmatched out of 20" logs. If your primary business would be these sets than you can cut logs to 36" lengths and be happy. The mple logs they sawed for me at WM to demo had a significant amount of crappy heartwood (pith?). I'm not sure how to judge instrument wood in terms of sap and heartwood. If you have to do more to pay for the saw then you need to leave the logs at industry standard 16' lengths. The log handling requirements depends on how long you need the lumber.

I haven't looked at the videos yet, but the they had literature was pretty short on quarter sawing. Since the blade parrallels the bed, the quartered piece has to be jammed up against the side to cut each slice. My fear would be that it would push up and not yeild consistent pieces. People with actual saws should be able to comment on this, but quarter sawing is not an industry preffered technique because it does not maximize yield. Scott in Memphis could probably comment on this issue,

I'd really like to know what your decision is and what you've been able to do once you get settled.

good luck
austin

[music_boy]

Much food for thought.
      I agree, Tom, Money spent towards log handling is money well spent. The diesal engine is always the  way to go, (in my opinion.)
       J.T., your logic is unarguable.(if that is a word) M an!!!! what is this gonna cost me? : : : :
        I'm sure a wood mizer rep.will tell me.
Thanks for the insight.
I'll have to write a song for ya. :D :D :D :D :D
Ricki

[Brian_Bailey]

Tom,  

Using the standard scales on the WM don't require any math. Just adjust them for the thickness you want an start a cuttin  .

I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything about your post, you cover a lot of ground and provide excellent information.

But I feel, that there is too much emphasis from a lot of folks in trying to make these small band mills into something they're not. They're not a production mill. If production is your main concern, a circle mill or highstrain band headrig is the way to go.

These small mills should be meant for the pleasures of sawing ones own/others lumber and making a few bucks in the process and not worrying about "time in the board"  ;).  

[Tom]

Don't be afraid to consider a used mill.  Not a lot changes from year to year and they are just steel and an engine. :D

[ronwood]

Rick,

I would recommend a mill with hydraulics if one could afford it. Makes the handling of the logs much easier and safer.   I have a LT40HG25 and I saw part time. It keeps me pretty busy when I am working by myself. Tom is correct that bigger engine is better for bigger logs. Felt that if I had a select either the hydraulics or the bigger engine it would be the hydraulics.

On the length of the mill I prefer the LT40 verses the LT30. The extra length can come in handy. If you buy a Woodmizer the LT40HG that has the 2 plane clamp system works well for rotating square cants. I believe that clamp system came out in 1998. Not real sure of that.

Good luck on what ever mill you choose to buy.

Ron    ;)

[Bibbyman]

One of your questions was  

"So, what would be the advantages of an lt 25 vs. the lt 30 other than an extra 4" on the log diameter?"

In all good answers and advice I didn't see where anyone pointed out that sawhead on the LT25/27 series is manual feed Up/Down and Forward/Back vs. power Up/Down and Forward/Back on the LT30/40 series.  That and engine options are the major differences.

The LT25/27/30/40 series have adjustable scales that have inch marks on one side and some variation of 4/4 on the other.  This makes sawing many common board thicknesses relatively easy with practice.

We sawed for 7 years on a manual LT40.  Loading logs is a problem that can be overcome with something like the log deck package.  We chose to set the mill up where nature provided the answer – slope.  We set the mill up where we could use longer ramps and take advantage of the down hill slope to let us roll the log onto the mill at deck level.  Turning the log was still using the ARMSTRONG method.  Except on the very big or rough logs, this was not too bad with a good cant hook.

There are a lot of used LT30/40 HD mills out there.  Many are trading up to get the new clamp system or the new LT70 mills.  Wood-Mizer has always had a few used mills or could connect you with someone wanting to trade up and therefore had a mill for sale.  Wood-Mizer is now advertising some used mills on their web site.   I'd bet that's not all the mills they have in stock or can find somewhere.  Talk to one of the salesmen and they may have one on their back lot or coming in that they can refurbish and sell to you.

One added point on used Wood-Mizer mills – Unless you feel really qualified to judge the condition of a used Wood-Mizer mill or really know the person and history of the mill,  I'd suggest you have Wood-Mizer support go over the mill.  Many times people wanting to sell their mills have this service done before hand – it's kind of like having a state vehicle inspection done on a car/truck you wanting to sell.  Some people selling their mills may not even be aware of some of the problems they have on their mill.  The Wood-Mizer tech-support guy tell storied of people that have bought used Wood-Mizer mills assured (probably in good faith) that they are up and ready to saw good lumber but later find they are not.

For sure,  have the owner saw some logs on the mill and then saw a few yourself before buying.  Wood-Mizer mills can take a lot and I've seen some that have. But they can be brought back into good service with a little adjustment and a few replacement parts.  It's just hard to do when you're just starting out with one that may have problems.

[Kevin]

I can't see sinking that much moola into something that will primarily be used as a personal mill.
My LT15 serves me well and mills a good size log.
With the trailer package you can go just about anywhere.
The mill sits close to the ground and the logs roll easily up the the ramps.
A winch could be used to load the logs but I don't see the need for it.

[Minnesota_boy]

It appears that Kevin has different logs than I get.  I get a few that I can't even move with a cant hook to get them to the hydraulic loader.

As I get older, the logs keep getting heavier, too.  Sure is nice to use one finger to roll the log on the mill instead of jerking on the cant hook.

[Kevin]

That could be but having my own woodlot I can select what will be milled.
The biggies get carved smaller with the chainsaw mill but that's rare.