iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Tops sawed off (long ago), Cypress trees in lake

Started by livemusic, April 18, 2016, 11:18:20 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

livemusic

I fish a lake in north Louisiana that was impounded in the 1930s. I think it's maybe 3500 acres. They damned up a creek/bayou to form it. I am sure that the existing lake bottom (now) was a "bottoms" long ago, meaning it was underwater much of the year anyway. A bottoms like that is full of Cypress trees. The lake is now full of Cypress and Tupelo trees that thrive today. But there countless old stumps. Including hundreds (thousands?) of stumps that are 6-10 feet above normal pool stage. These stumps were cut off with a saw long ago, you can easily tell. They are all squared off at the top like a saw did it and on some, it seems I can see where they notched it to fell it. I can't figure it out. If the water depth in the current lake averages, say, 7' and the stumps are 6-10 feet tall, that means they were cut off 13-17 feet above the ground way back then? Anyone have a clue about this? These stumps are pretty scattered, maybe one every few acres, but there is one part of the lake where there are a lot of them, a much higher density. I don't know the diameter but they were large Cypress. At water level now, they are, say, 24-30 inches diameter. Why did they cut them so high above the ground? I hope someone can solve this mystery.
~~~
Bill

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Probably done to reduce the amount of "butt swell" included in the butt log. Cypress usually has quite a bit of butt swell in the first few feet off the ground. Much of the wood in the extreme butt section would not be commercially worth sawing in those days. On the other hand, if you could reasonably harvest them now you could probably make a bit of money with specialty slabs and such for high end makers of unusual furniture.

Herb

livemusic

Ok, we kind of surmised it might be something like that. Except... how did they get 17' up in the air to cut it? I guess they could climb it and do it.
~~~
Bill

elk42

Machinist Retired, Lt15 WM 25 HP, Stihl 044, Stihl 311, Kubota M2900w/FEL, KUBOTA L4800 w/FEL,
Lincoln Ranger 10,000, stihl 034,

Chuck White

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

livemusic

Quote from: elk42 on April 18, 2016, 03:01:27 PM
Is this lake bistineau.

No, it's called Black Bayou. (The old one, not the new one.)
~~~
Bill

WV Sawmiller

Live,

   I have seen old photos of men sawing big cypress and possibly redwoods and such out west where they were standing on a platform like a scaffold. I never thought of them having to build one that high to get above the swell. Not sure how they did it but I imagine they sawed a groove/flat spot in the "ribs" or wings of the tree roots/swell to create a level spot to place a wide board or two. I can't say I'd enjoy working in such conditions when the tree started to fall but they did what they had to do and no doubt had contingency plans for such.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

elk42

Live
  Forgot to welcome to FF  so WELCOME. The lakes in that area captures my attention because of the way they were created by trees uprooted by the Red River blocked the river with log jams at the peak it was about 150 miles long. If anyone likes things like this look [GOOGLE] Great Raft Red River,
Machinist Retired, Lt15 WM 25 HP, Stihl 044, Stihl 311, Kubota M2900w/FEL, KUBOTA L4800 w/FEL,
Lincoln Ranger 10,000, stihl 034,

wetdog

I've seen some like that near home on the Mississippi River. I always assumed they were cut when the river was high so the logs could be floated out. These were also some cypress and tupelo gum.

pineywoods

Welcome Livemusic. I'm sorta familiar with Black Bayou, I live just a few miles up the river...Them cypress trees were probably cut from a big flat bottom boat during a time of high water.  Two boats and a long cross-cut saw...Once was a thriving logging industry along the ouachita river that floated logs downriver to a mill in west monroe. Upstream, logs were cut during the summer and fall and waited till the river rose in the spring. My wife's grandad was one of the river rats that rafted the logs downriver..
Tell us about yourself and your interests...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, livemusic.  Adding your location to your profile always helps with questions.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

livemusic

Quote from: pineywoods on April 18, 2016, 08:24:06 PM
Welcome Livemusic. I'm sorta familiar with Black Bayou, I live just a few miles up the river...Them cypress trees were probably cut from a big flat bottom boat during a time of high water.  Two boats and a long cross-cut saw...Once was a thriving logging industry along the ouachita river that floated logs downriver to a mill in west monroe. Upstream, logs were cut during the summer and fall and waited till the river rose in the spring. My wife's grandad was one of the river rats that rafted the logs downriver..
Tell us about yourself and your interests...

This was suggested to me by someone else but I replied that it didn't make sense to me in this situation because... if it were high water that allowed this, it was awfully high water. Many of the tree cuts are 10' above water now, so the water level would have to be that high back then. How could it have been that high? They impounded the lake, building a dam in the 30's, so, that brought the water higher than ever? I could buy this from-the-water theory IF this were before the Great Raft on the Red River was cleared by Captain Henry Miller Shreve. But he cleared that in the 1800s. No telling what the water level was back then, because the Red River raft caused water levels to be mucho higher in the surrounding lakes and bayous.

Now, on the other hand... I also recall... on our old family farm is an oxbow lake off the river, and I recall stumps like this that rimmed the bank. The Red River can certainly get uber high, making sense that they were cut from the water. But I can't see how this particular lake level would have been that high. Ten feet above the modern spillway? Doesn't seem possible. But... I also note that the record pool stage for Caddo Lake, which is not too far away, is, like 10' higher than the big flood that we just had a few weeks ago. Which was a really bad flood! Like, 7' above pool stage?

I am also going to try to find a senior citizen that lives in the area. Somebody is bound to know. It's a puzzler, very interesting. Whatever happened, I am glad they did not cut the entire tree, as it made for crappie hangout at each stump. The stumps are still there, but starting to rot away. Many will last another 20 years or so, but many are getting thin. Cypress is an amazing tree. Those tall, dead stumps have to be, what... over 80 years old?

EDIT: As for info on myself, I updated my profile. I'm not a forester, just love trees, forests and wildlife.
~~~
Bill

Magicman

They sawed above the butt swell.  The amount of lumber would have been disproportionate to the amount of work required to saw those huge butts.  Kinda the same with the Redwoods.  They were not felled from ground level.  That plus what kind of sawmill could have sawed those huge butt swells?

As a note, some of those huge Redwood stumps are now being dug up and harvested.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Sixacresand

Welcome to the Forum, Livemusic.   Let us know what you find out.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

pineywoods

Bit of confusion here livemusic. We are talking two different black bayou's. Nother one just north of monroe. Same thing applies tho. River and lake stages 20 ft or more above pool stage were not that uncommon. I remember a couple of years when the ouachita got at least that high and maybe more...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

livemusic

Nope, not north of Monroe, north of Shreveport.

I suppose it's possible that a big flood occurred, and somebody said "Hey, we can go cut the tops out of a bazillion Cypress trees now!"

Knowing the lay of the land downstream of this lake's spillway, it's hard to fathom (the former) lake bottom level being ten feet higher than the present lake. I can't envision it but I guess it could've happened.

As for why cut the top out, I guess it may be what you guys are saying because Cypress trees have about as big a butt as any tree I know around these parts. I look at the butt of some Cypresses and it makes me wonder just how old IS that tree to have a butt that big! The trunk may not be exceptional but some butts are. The trees that they cut... all of those trees were pretty darn big.
~~~
Bill

Hiway40frank

Quote from: livemusic on April 19, 2016, 08:39:23 AM
Quote from: pineywoods on April 18, 2016, 08:24:06 PM
Welcome Livemusic. I'm sorta familiar with Black Bayou, I live just a few miles up the river...Them cypress trees were probably cut from a big flat bottom boat during a time of high water.  Two boats and a long cross-cut saw...Once was a thriving logging industry along the ouachita river that floated logs downriver to a mill in west monroe. Upstream, logs were cut during the summer and fall and waited till the river rose in the spring. My wife's grandad was one of the river rats that rafted the logs downriver..
Tell us about yourself and your interests...

This was suggested to me by someone else but I replied that it didn't make sense to me in this situation because... if it were high water that allowed this, it was awfully high water. Many of the tree cuts are 10' above water now, so the water level would have to be that high back then. How could it have been that high? They impounded the lake, building a dam in the 30's, so, that brought the water higher than ever? I could buy this from-the-water theory IF this were before the Great Raft on the Red River was cleared by Captain Henry Miller Shreve. But he cleared that in the 1800s. No telling what the water level was back then, because the Red River raft caused water levels to be mucho higher in the surrounding lakes and bayous.

Now, on the other hand... I also recall... on our old family farm is an oxbow lake off the river, and I recall stumps like this that rimmed the bank. The Red River can certainly get uber high, making sense that they were cut from the water. But I can't see how this particular lake level would have been that high. Ten feet above the modern spillway? Doesn't seem possible. But... I also note that the record pool stage for Caddo Lake, which is not too far away, is, like 10' higher than the big flood that we just had a few weeks ago. Which was a really bad flood! Like, 7' above pool stage?

I am also going to try to find a senior citizen that lives in the area. Somebody is bound to know. It's a puzzler, very interesting. Whatever happened, I am glad they did not cut the entire tree, as it made for crappie hangout at each stump. The stumps are still there, but starting to rot away. Many will last another 20 years or so, but many are getting thin. Cypress is an amazing tree. Those tall, dead stumps have to be, what... over 80 years old?

EDIT: As for info on myself, I updated my profile. I'm not a forester, just love trees, forests and wildlife.


Call me crazy but what if its just like you said? The crappie hang outs? Now 80 years ago was way before people started thiking like this, but now if someone makes a pond/lake they fill it with logs and stumps to create a natural habitat. Its a long shot tho being that like I said most people had no clue what conservation was back then.

Texas Ranger

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

LeeB

'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

starmac

This really has nothing to do with your stumps, as it was just a clearing job and way more modern.

I was task with clearing a highline right of way across a section of lake limestone back when the lake was fairly new. I had to leave the stumps a few feet above the normal water level so that boaters could see them.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Ljohnsaw

Great footage!  Be sure to watch part II.  Those stacks of lumber are just crazy leaning towers.  Wonder why they stacked that way.  Good thing their weren't sticker police back then...
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Magicman

Thanks TR for that look at early Cypress logging.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DFILER2


Thank You Sponsors!