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Cutting hung up heavy leaning trees UPDATED 1/7/19

Started by Klunker, September 24, 2018, 02:16:31 AM

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Al_Smith

Those things are "widow makers " on the ground .If you start at the root ball,it will barber chair and the root ball will try to sit back up .All that wood under tension is very dangerous . I like the D8 remedy .

Southside

Quote from: HolmenTree on September 26, 2018, 07:06:16 AMa feller buncher on tracks if there's alot more then in pic


I would be concerned that a buncher would get the $10K disc wedged in some of those.  Then what do you do? 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

thecfarm

Not to give out any false information.
I have cut quite of few leaners. BUT I let mine age on the stump for at least a couple years. ;D  Or that what's one of my friends tell me. I have never had one try to stand up on me. But I have seen two pine "stumps" that are about 20 feet tall down the road. :o Looks odd to see them like that. We had a bad wind storm and they fell across the road. I have a few that are "ageing" now. But these are on the ground. Lucky this time. But I do respect them leaners. With all the leaves-needles gone.I can see what is holding the tree up too. Or not holding it up.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

HolmenTree

Quote from: Southside logger on September 26, 2018, 03:54:43 PM
Quote from: HolmenTree on September 26, 2018, 07:06:16 AMa feller buncher on tracks if there's alot more then in pic


I would be concerned that a buncher would get the $10K disc wedged in some of those.  Then what do you do?
Maybe I'm showing my age .....
1975 as a 17 year old kid I operated on day and night shifts a Drott 50 on tracks with a shear head and 2 other Drotts with auger heads.
I removed alot of blow down with both head styles and never broke one of them.
So I think your biggest concern would not be the head....but how good is your operator. :)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Actually they were Drott 40 with 50 undercarriages.
Cut alot of wood with them .
We had Clarke 667 grapples skidding to roadside and 3 man Forano cut to length slashers .
Even had experimental chain flails delimbers mounted on 330 TJ skidders.
We had a couple  delimber shear heads for the Drotts but never used them. Too slow and broke up too much wood.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Southside

Oh - not saying it can't be done, but I don't want to be sitting there when you hear the disc suddenly stall out as the stump shifts and she is stuck.  $10K for a what - $50 tree? Not me.  

I prefer the idea of a heavy piece of iron working at it from the bottom end, dig, pull, or push, 40,000+ lbs of iron will give a guy a lot of protection.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Skeans1

Quote from: Southside logger on September 26, 2018, 09:00:06 PM
Oh - not saying it can't be done, but I don't want to be sitting there when you hear the disc suddenly stall out as the stump shifts and she is stuck.  $10K for a what - $50 tree? Not me.  

I prefer the idea of a heavy piece of iron working at it from the bottom end, dig, pull, or push, 40,000+ lbs of iron will give a guy a lot of protection.  
I think we're all thinking different equipment, there's hot saws which are so so for blow down its do able, intermediate discs which is about like the bar saw, bar saw, and the fun old shears. Another thing is the size of equipment you guys see vs the wet coast and Canada you take most of the buncher out here they're 80k plus with 5 pumps one just for the saw, one for the boom, the swing, and two for each travel they don't stall the disc.

coalsmok

All I'm going to say is be careful and watch what you're doing and how the trees react. Most of my hurts and damages have been caused by cutting this kind of stuff. Last summer a blowdown mess on a fence came way to close for comfort on gutting me. Thank god the inertia/kickback brake worked as I landed on the saw when the tree threw me.

Klunker

Thanks for the responses.

My tractor has a grapple, But usually I wench the trees if something is stuck. I feel safer at a distance than right next a bunch of pickup sticks.

A couple of notes.

1) I have cut a few trees that had the trunk on the ground with a root ball or close to parallel to the ground with a root ball.

I mark of my logs sections starting at the bottom of the tree and work up. Then I start taking the top off so that I'm left with just the logs. Most of the trees have about 30-40 ft of logs in them. I can tell after the first or second log if the root ball is going to go back usually. If the tree starts to rise after each log is cut off, its going back. But sometimes it seems as if its a balancing act. Remove enough weight and it goes all at once. Not fast but within 1-2 seconds. Usually happens when I cut the 2nd to last log from the stump. So I'm careful when cutting these as I have seen it happen.

2) Red Oaks love to split. I have cut a few Red Oak leaners and they like to split. Just cutting in to test the waters and they split when the saw is in only 1-2 inches with a nice crack. Lots of tension in some of the leaners and Red Oak does not like tension. I usually notch the top and saw from underneath up as most of these fall down when cut.

3) I do some exploratory nibbling at times. In some cases it hard to tell if the tree wants to open up on the top or bottom as you cut. And the worse case is neither. I have had some that I ended up notching both top and bottom and working the saw in from both sides and there is no movement on the trunk.
Then you end up cutting the log all the way thru and it only moves together pinching the saw. Thats when I wench it apart from the side. A little tug is all it takes, once one of the sides get past the other they usually fall down.

Back to my trees in the picture. They are Bitternut Hickories, my experience is they love to split also.
The top tree is pretty much just held in place because of the root ball. There a couple of small branches on the top touching the tree that the lower one is well lodged against. I don't like the idea of cutting the top tree off as I'm concerned to where it goes when it falls down and hits the lower trunk. Will it fall towards me or away from me?

Cutting the bottom tree scares me cause of the weight on it, must be tremendous, I can see that splitting and the the whole mess coming down and rolling side ways cause the top tree looks like it has a relatively free path to the ground if the lower tree was not stopping it.

I guess that my biggest fear is there are 2 trees there and I'm worried that cutting one will make the 2nd one go someplace.

I have help coming with in a more experienced person. I'm going leave that beast till he is here.




mike_belben

Sounds like youll be fine.  Wear your gear and think safety.   Take pics so we can all armchair cowboy about your performance later. 
Praise The Lord

olcowhand

I started on this mess last weekend. My trail runs through a small ravine in this spot, and there are 6 Blowdowns and the Top of a 26" DBH Ash that broke off about twenty feet up. This pile is about 12'- 14' high, with the trees laying close to horizontal from the part of the slope they blew down from.
I employed Mike's trick once, walking out on the Maple to take the top of the largest Beech off the pile. The branches of the beech were wedged on both sides of the maple, and when I cut the one that was keeping the top hung up and the top rolled off, the whole pile lurched up about 5".
There has to be dozens of hidden spring poles in this mess, and I'm waiting for the first kick in the pills.
I have to get through this; it blocks access to over half of my wood.
Like C/L, if I'm still on this site, that means I haven't been finished off yet....

Olcowhand's Workshop, LLC

They say the mind is the first to go; I'm glad it's something I don't use!

Ezekiel 36:26-27

mike_belben

Yeah, thats a trainwreck alright.  Be safe.
Praise The Lord

Southside

Can you drop that ash so it does not come down on it's terms?  I have seen a lot of EAB killed ash break off just like you say, then break again lower.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Hilltop366

If I can get at the root ball of a tipped over tree with my tractor I will pushed the tree towards the top or rolled it sideways to dislodge the rest of the roots and then push on the roots in the other direction to lower the top down off the trees it is hung up on.

gspren

I use my pole saw attachment pretty often on tangled messes, just start where the branches are 4-5" and work my way bigger. I like the extra distance and reaching over some to get at others is nice.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Al_Smith

Quote from: gspren on September 30, 2018, 09:00:19 AM
I use my pole saw attachment pretty often on tangled messes, just start where the branches are 4-5" and work my way bigger. I like the extra distance and reaching over some to get at others is nice.
Actually last year I did the very same thing .Wind blown top of a huge bitternut ,around 24 inch where a straight line wind broke it 40 feet up in a 100 footer .The spar is still standing ,3.5 feet at the base .
After I "fence posted" the top until it was nearly straight up I broke it loose using snatch blocks with a 4 part line and a tractor .Could not  get to it with a bucket truck and it was too dangerous to climb .Around two cords of firewood with maybe 1500 bd ft of saw log still standing which may end up as firewood depending on what mood I'm in at the time .

Tramp Bushler

 If I was in your area I'de come by and get it all bucked down for you. As I'm not all I can do is hope and pray for you. If you can move the logs as you cut them off that will help.
.
If your not wearing your hard hat when you need it. Well.

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