sharpening options

[symamania]

Gday guys

I`m sure this would have been asked a million times but I couldn't see a recent topic about it. What are the best options for sharpening your chainsaw currently I use one of these.

http://www.pferd.com/au-en/4695_ENA_HTML.htm

which is ok for use with my smaller saw but now I`ve purchased a stihl 076 to use in a CSM I figure id have to sharpener alot more frequently, but I was wondering if that's what you Pro`s use.I`ve been considering buying a cheap wall mounted electric sharpener but with conflicting reports I`m not sure.

let me know the score lads

cheers

[beenthere]

Different strokes for different folks (old saying) and no pun intended.

I want to see more of the tooth as I sharpen. I do use the Pferd Husqvarna roller jig that in my opinion controls the depth of the round file. Certainly doesn't take me as long as the person using the single round file as shown in the video.

Experience as often described here on the Forum varies, but if I recall correctly, the use of an electrical device to sharpen is often not the best solution for good filing, nor the fastest.

[HolmenTree]

Stihl sells that  all in one Pferd filing guide in their own orange and grey colors. It's  a great tool. I recommend  it for novice and advanced  chainsaw filers.

On a chainsaw  mill like an Alaskan its best to be able to touch up the chain in the field.
Using a filing guide without the trouble removing the saw from the mill every time, I file both left and right hand sides cutters from one side.
Having said that I mean the file goes into the right hand cutter's working corner....outside in.

[mad murdock]

Granberg's 12 vDC grinder with guide is a pretty slick setup for sharpening "on the mill". Easier than filing too.

[symamania]

is the grandberg 12v sharpener tricky to set up and get it right? watched a couple of vids on it

what about the timberline sharpener looks pretty good but I guess your restricted to what angle you can put on your chain

[mad murdock]

I have not used their electirc sharpener, but it looks like it is similar to the setup of the granberg file guide, which is almost the same as the oregon one, which i have, which is easy to setuo and use, best oart is you can select any angle to sharpen.

[symamania]

I think im leaning to ]wards getting this bad boy  http://granberg.com/product/g1012xt-precision-grinder

[HolmenTree]

12VoltDC grinders do the job if it has enough cord to reach the tailgate of your pickup so you can comfortably  sharpen your saw. Not sure if there's a cordless model available which would be alot more portable at the stump.........spare batteries ?

Once a chain is sharpened  with these grinders even  a new file won't  touch it as the cutters are hardened so much.......
Also the case hardening makes funky cutting edge durability  results too.

[foresterstan]

I can get new files for pretty cheap, and a sharp file makes quick work of a sharpening job, especially if you don't leave it too long.
I tried some more complicated set-ups but always reverted to a sharp file in my pocket and trying not to hit dirt...

[beenthere]

foresterstan
I think that is usually what most people eventually find out. In the end, the trusty file wins.

[celliott]

foresterstan
I think that is usually what most people eventually find out. In the end, the trusty file wins.

Indeed. Best to just do your best to learn hand filing. It can take awhile, but once you got it, you GOT it. And you'll be happy with the results.
Took me a little while to get the hang of it. The husky roller guide helps alot. I can freehand now, thanks to muscle memory from that guide, but I still use it every now and then. Always use it for the depth gauges.

[4x4American]

Same here.  I just use a regular file, works great.  I also file from the outside in, so that the burr is not on the working edge of the cutter.  There was a great article on sharpening that way in a past issue of Independant Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine.  All the time I get people telling me I'm doing it wrong.  Even today at coffee break I was sharpening my saw.  The truck driver said he's never seen anybody do it like that before.  I said well then you ain't never seen it done proper!

[lumberjack48]

  All you need is a round file, flat file, and a Carlton File-O-Plate. After using it for a week or two you'll be filing by hand.
Keeping a saw sharp in the field is one of the main things to learn, to get production. You can sharpen in the field with the file-o-plate.

  This cutter is dull, the edge is gone, see the shinny edge on the cutter, one stroke of the file and it should be gone, if not take another stroke. Long slow stroke, don't push to hard, nice and easy.

http://landscape-project.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/zatochka-benzopily4.jpg

  This is what the sharp cutter looks like.

http://arborist101.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/SharpTooth.jpg

      This is when i'd sharpen
http://arborist101.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Dull-Tooth.jpg

      This what i wanted it to look like
http://landscape-project.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/zatochka-benzopily3.jpg

Filing by hand is simple, but you have to watch what your doing. Filing the right hand side is easy, when filing the left hand side, with the file in your right hand, put your left arm over the end of the bar and take hold of the end of the file with your left hand. Now you can guide the file with your left hand while pushing the file with your right hand. It will take a few times to really get the feel for it. Once you know what your looking for or when the cutter sharp you got it.

[mad murdock]

You guys are correct, a file most times, is the best.  The OP was referring to milling and sharpening during that process.  Using a file to sharpen while the Alaska mill is bolted to the bar is a pain.  I have done it plenty.  It can be done, but the Granberg mini grinder is the way to go, if you are wanting to sharpen on the fly, and not take the mill off the bar every time you have to sharpen, or touch up. In all other scenarios, the file-o-plate, a flat and round file do fine.  The other aspect of sharpening a milling chain is the 0-10 deg angle, that is hard to get without a guide, and as you may already know, consistency is key to a smooth milling chainsaw setup, when it comes to keeping it cutting true and smooth.  FWIW, that is what I have come to know, having done it for a while now. 

[bandmiller2]

I go both ways, file and grind. Most of the time sharp file with an occasional grind to true things up. As most the guys say its worth wile to learn to file properly. Frank C.

[Dixon700]

I'm no professional, but this is what I use.
  http://granberg.com/product/g106b-file-n-joint           
I file at a 30* angle and a 5* angle which follows the factory angles of my stihl rs chain with a 13/32 file. Got a pack of 12 for $16.

[luvmexfood]

My process is pretty much as bandmiller2 described. Touchup in the field with a file. Rocked chains come-in to the grinder and after a few filings. Then I usually do the rakers while in the shop.

My grinder is a little HF. Does an ok job. Angles are a little tricky to set due to the big lines on the scale. Usually get close with them then check (keep a spare pair of cheap reading glasses nearby along with a desk lamp)  with the marking on the chain to check and adjust slightly if necessary.

[CTYank]

I'm no professional, but this is what I use.
  http://granberg.com/product/g106b-file-n-joint           
I file at a 30* angle and a 5* angle which follows the factory angles of my stihl rs chain with a 13/32 file. Got a pack of 12 for $16.

Been using one of those (the same one) since the late '70s. Still works great. Enables keeping cutters razor-sharp with minimal metal removal- chains last a looooong time. 30/0 deg and 1/5 file diameter above the tooth with 5/32" or 7/32" file a/r. Oregon/WoodlandPro chains, Oregon files, no probs.
Grinder works fine for rocked chains (only), mainly buds' chains. If you use a grinder with "quick hits" on the cutters, there's no problem IME affecting cutters with over-temps. $100-129 NT grinder does the job fine for my purposes.
I've tried a bud's cheapie HF grinder that he got with coupons or something for ~$20. IMO, isn't worth that, a complete POJ. Orders of magnitude inferior to the NT ~$100 grinder. Not really comparable, again IMO.

[NH-Murph]

Sometimes...when I'm feeling spendy, I'll spring for a nice wooden file handle.  I don't like guides or any gizmos that require electric power.  Round file and a flat file work just fine for me.  I file the left side teeth with my right hand and my right side teeth with my left hand.  I just pass the file back and fourth and hit all the teeth on one trip around the bar.  I have a couple buddies that are loggers that think I'm retarded or something when they see me file my saw, but it cuts fine when I'm done and it works well for me.

[symamania]

just got my chain back from the dealer for a quick touch up and what difference it makes shows how bad at sharpening I am hahah

[Dixon700]

I'm no professional, but this is what I use.
  http://granberg.com/product/g106b-file-n-joint           
I file at a 30* angle and a 5* angle which follows the factory angles of my stihl rs chain with a 13/32 file. Got a pack of 12 for $16.

30/0 deg and 1/5 file diameter above the tooth with 5/32" or 7/32" file a/r.

30* across and 0* horizontally?  Is that better than the factory 35* and 5* horizontally? Whats the 1/5 file diameter?   I'm open to suggestions for better filing.

I have a harbor freight cheapie grinder for rocked chains. If you pay  close attention to your settings you can get ok results.

[Bill]

Pretty much files are my choice . A couple gentle passes on the teeth on one side then flip the saw around and the same number of passes on the other side ( file passing same direction on the teeth ) .

I 've seen folks get their chains back from shops with not much left of the teeth - figure I 'd probably do better myself even if I had to redo it once or twice to get it right .

Just my $0.02

[grassfed]

I just watched a couple of youtube videos and I was surprised that they all seemed to show people filing from the side of the saw. Maybe that is why people like using the file guides. I stand behind the saw, a bit to the left hand side when I file with my right hand on the file handle and my left hand on the file end. I swap to do the left. I lean down close and rest my chest on the saw handle. This way I get a real clear view of the cutting corner and the witness mark. This makes it very easy to keep the angle correct and also see exactly when the corner is sharp. It is quick and it does not take long to get used to sharpening left handed. All of the good cutters I have known sharpen this way.

[UniversalFogger]

I bought the Stihl 2 in 1 Easy file version of the Pferd.  I really, really like it.

Paid 36 for it at my local dealer, and have found it to be the best filing tool I've used. I've owned grinders, 12v versions, and hand files, and have become proficient with the hand files over the years.

Nice thing about the Pferd/Stihl version is how ergonomic the thing is.  REAL easy to keep your angles and provide smooth push/pull action, better than a file handle.  The fact that it touches the rakers when needed is real nice too.  I'd highly recommend this file holder-sharpener. 

[antoine.rizzotti]

Did some research as I myself have no idea. This looks pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJm6UNMuik . Hope it helps.

[beenthere]

Didn't think a file was meant to push/pull.  Only push, IMO. I could be wrong. 

antoine
Welcome to the Forestry Forum

There have been a number of posts on the Timberline sharpener in the video. Looks great, but time consuming vs. just hand filing. But likely a higher precision job, and good for those who don't master the hand file.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=59946.0

[Dixon700]

The timberline looks like a lot more work than any other method...

[Grandedog]

     Howdy,
   Over the years I've found that customers who take the time to set up the handheld, and bar-mounted grinders have good luck with them. The biggest draw back that I've seen is that people keep using the stones over and over. Meanwhile they are losing diameter and creating new issues.
Regards
Gregg

[so il logger]

I just watched a couple of youtube videos and I was surprised that they all seemed to show people filing from the side of the saw. Maybe that is why people like using the file guides. I stand behind the saw, a bit to the left hand side when I file with my right hand on the file handle and my left hand on the file end. I swap to do the left. I lean down close and rest my chest on the saw handle. This way I get a real clear view of the cutting corner and the witness mark. This makes it very easy to keep the angle correct and also see exactly when the corner is sharp. It is quick and it does not take long to get used to sharpening left handed. All of the good cutters I have known sharpen this way.

I file the exact same way  I know a guy that files from in front of the saw.... Can't wrap my mind around that idea. My dad which logged all his life filed from the side of the saw and boy could he make it cut. To me filing from behind the saw and switching hands works best

[sablatnic]

I file from the side of the chain, that way my weight, and not my arms, does the hard work. (I am a skinny guy with thin arms).

[HolmenTree]

Here's  my 41 year proven method, sit right down on a stump or log and go to it.No vise needed.
But my stool in my shop is more comfortable.  ;D


  

 

[Rick Alger]

Years ago at a safety training,  Soren Eriksen demonstrated sharpening with the blade vertical so you could look into each gullet as you filed.

[HolmenTree]

Years ago at a safety training,  Soren Eriksen demonstrated sharpening with the blade vertical so you could look into each gullet as you filed.

That method would require the file to "go into" the cutter's  cutting edge which is the way to file chisel bit square ground chisel chain.
But like Soren and alot of other Swedes I have met they like to file round filed chain that way too.
With my sitting with the saw on the lap method the saw is held level,  firmly and total view of all the angles of the cutter to be filed.
Plus the rest during cutting is beneficial  too

[skipster]

I'm in a similar situation to the original poster, bit of a newcomer trying his hand at various sharpening methods.
After having several chains ruined by the apprentice with the electric grinder at the various chainsaw shops method,i figured that if anyone was going to ruin my chains,it may as well be me.
Freehand filing was beyond me when i started,too many angles and options to think about,and I didnt even know what a sharp chain looked like.
I started with a Granberg file n joint,and it really helped me to understand angles and file pressure,while keeping the file at a constant 30 degrees.
I messed up a few times,but after a couple of months,I have graduated to using the Husky roller guide, and I am messing around with using just a file.
The biggest breakthrough for me was to stop caring about doing a perfect job,and sacrificing some cutter size in order to take a few risks with filing.

Gradually I'm getting better!

[thecfarm]

skipster,welcome to the forum. Run the chain into the ground or a rock,that will give you some practice.  Took me a while to realize what I was doing wrong. Now it will pull itself into the wood.

[bandmiller2]

Whenever possible I file from the rear side with the bar clamped in a vice at a comfy hight. When one side is done I turn the saw around. I keep a felt tip marker to mark the top plate of the first tooth. Frank C.

[UniversalFogger]

Whenever possible I file from the rear side with the bar clamped in a vice at a comfy hight. When one side is done I turn the saw around. I keep a felt tip marker to mark the top plate of the first tooth. Frank C.

Same here.  I mounted a big vise on a portable hydraulic lift table.  Easy to work around, and I just spin the vise to do the other side.  Keeping 30* and a level file makes the difference.

[HolmenTree]

I have a bench vise in my shop with a magnifying lamp to get the best view  of my filing when I sharpen my fleet of work saws at the end of the day. Air compressor  is on hand to blow away the filings off the chain.
But I still take ths time during my work day to sit down on a stump and touch up my chain.......never cut with a half dull chain.
What time is lost touching up the chain is greatly gained with the extra production  using  the sharp chain :(

[sandsawmill14]

What time is lost touching up the chain is greatly gained with the extra production  using  the sharp chain :(

x2 

[skipster]

tried Holmentrees seated method out today,using the roller guide,and found that it worked well for me. Thanks for that!

[HolmenTree]

You're welcome . Like my last picture shows filing the right hand cutters make sure you got a glove or piece of wood cookie to protect your pant leg from your sharp cutters ;D

[yamaha605]

https://www.timberlinesharpener.com/
thinking about buying one of these guys  these things look awesome

[beenthere]

How are you sharpening your chains now? What do you use and your thoughts why you would want to go to the timberline sharpener?

I've nothing against them, and they look well made and should do a precision job.

But for me, would take painfully more time and don't think it would improve my sharpening by hand file.

[yamaha605]

I currently own several files I use a angle gauge with.  Even with an angle gauge you can still get angle off.  cut one chisel more then the other.  without meaning to.  I also have an Oregon 12v dremel grinder.  there is a chance with those though if you are not careful to overheat the metal and harden it.  making it weaker over several times.  With the timberline I don't know cause of never using one but looks like it will give you same angle no matter what.  Same chisel length.  and no heat on the chisel.  so imo this looks to be as good as you can get.  as far as taking a long time.  with the way this thing is set up I would say that I could beat someone with a file with that thing with some practice

[skipster]

So, I've now tried most of the file guides out (barring the Timberline) and here's my newbies perspective.
The Stihl file-in-the plate type was horrible for me,couldnt see what i was doing,and it was all guesswork.
The frame type guides such as the the Granberg and the Stihl FG 2 and 3 were really helpful in teaching me about angles, gullet depth etc
The Husky roller guide was good for pushing me towards freehand filing,enabling me to see what was going on without losing my angle.
I'm now freehand filing,and loving it, watching the tiny wave of swarf(is that the right word?) curl off the top plate leading edge is so rewarding.
My chains are sharper than they ever were using any of the guides, with good gullet(not too much) and really crisp leading edge.
Give yourself permission to ruin a chain,and with practice,freehand is the way to go IMHO

[trapper]

I use an old Oregon triangular file guide.  Wish I could find another one.

[bandmiller2]

A file like a hammer is a simple tool but requires skill and practice to be used well. A file should be pushed laser line straight no weaving or rocking only cutting on the push stroke and lifting on the return. If you can master this you got sharpening by the short hairs. Frank C.

[4x4American]

what he said ^^

Don't waste your money on the Timberline.  Friend of mine did, and wished he didn't lol

[John Mc]

Don't waste your money on the Timberline.  Friend of mine did, and wished he didn't lol

If I could get the use of one for free for a while, I'd love to try it out, just to see for myself how it works. Don't think I'd buy one without more evidence that it offers something better than I can do with a file. I've only heard a few people rave about them, and most seem to think it's just a gimmick that does not better than their hand file or grinder.

[symamania]

For sure id love to hear about the timberline sharpeners used on ripping chain if they can be used on them? Can ripping chain be sharpened at dealerships using their electric chain sharpeners or not?

Might sound like a dumb question but not sure if they require some special system

[John Mc]

The Timberline sharpeners are not able to sharpen at the 10˚ angle common for ripping chain. If I recall correctly, they are set for a fixed 30˚ angle, and you can get a different insert that lets you do either 25˚ or 35˚.

Rumor has it they are working on one that will do ripping chain angles.

[symamania]

I rest my case hopefully they do come out with one for 10 degree

[Ada Shaker]

12VoltDC grinders do the job if it has enough cord to reach the tailgate of your pickup so you can comfortably  sharpen your saw. Not sure if there's a cordless model available which would be alot more portable at the stump.........spare batteries ?

Once a chain is sharpened  with these grinders even  a new file won't  touch it as the cutters are hardened so much.......
Also the case hardening makes funky cutting edge durability  results too.

Hi i'm new to the forum and just have a general enquiry about the hardness of the cutters.
Can you explain how the case hardening occurs????? . I'm kinda stumped. Is the chain steel made of steel that can be air hardened, oil hardened or brine hardened???? I for one would love to know what kind of steel various chain manufactures use in their chainsaw chains, you might be onto something here i've never contemplated. Also could you please help shed some light on what you mean by "funky cutting edge durability", sounds like some fuzzy logic thing.

[Ada Shaker]

I'm beginning to like this forum, i've had some gr8 laughs.
Some of you blokes obviously haven't tried to sharpen a big chainsaw from behind?????. Don't get too exited, the exhaust does get hot.
I do agree with what someone said, time lost in keeping your chain sharp is gained in production.
I was taught was i was younger that a chain is easier kept sharp, than trying to sharpen your chain.
Depending on what wood your cutting (20 to 30 min), take a break, light up a smoke, and give that chain 3 or 4 light strokes just to keep it sharp. Only these days you'd probably dispense of the smoke. Eye sight alone, is probably a poor indicator of sharpness determination. The human fingertip (is most cases if your hands aren't shot), is an incredible machine that would cost industry $millions to replicate to form the same function. Most people can feel when a chain is sharp, surface textures and the like. You also get an indicator by the cutting speed and wood chips that fly out, but i've also known to have just sharpened my chain, dug into some wood, and all of sudden, all i get is saw dust. Something has just dulled the chain (a nail perhaps????). Bummer, but it does happen. I know of several blokes that carry several chains with them and prefer to replace chains because its quicker than to sit down and sharpen them, which they do later at home.

All in all, i have to confess, i've never used an electric sharpener or grinder, i have yet to find a tree with a power outlet,  :D
Sometimes i prefer old school, and i think if you have to use an electric grinder on site it's because you've left it too long, or the chain is too blunt, ie... I hit that blooming hidden nail or some stone or something.Bummer. Honestly, i really enjoy working with wood, and sometimes the only way to get close and personnel is to work with it by hand and use those finger tips and develop a feeling for it.
Hence i prefer to use a hand file but there are a few rules i follow through with, let me know what you think.

1. It doesn't matter what guide tool you use (if any), so long as your consistent with your strokes/angles and the like.
2. Use the correct sized file for the chain you use (if your eye sight is a little shot like mine, use coloured handles or a little paint)
3. Carry and use a file brush or at least a small fine wire brush to clean your file on sight.
4. Oil and files don't mix. Carry an oil displacement spray and clean/spray both the file and chain prior to sharpening. You'll get a better feel for what's going on. (and less slippage of the file = more consistent filing strokes)
5. Sharpen your chain regularly. A hot chain causes all shorts of problems, from overheating/stretching the chain limiting its lifespan, to possible personal injury if something fails.

Please feel free to comment or add if you think i've left something out or even disagree with something.
Cheers.

[beenthere]

Your summary works good for me..  8)

[JohnW]

Ada Shaker, I seldom grind, but it does seem to harden the cutters.  I asked some knife makers about what could cause this.  I guess it's the rest of the link that cools the cutter.  When you grind a cutter it gets hot in a small area then the rest of the link cools it about like quinching it in water.

I couldn't find any information about steel alloy, but the knife makers told me it's likely an L alloy.  L-6 has this type of content
Carbon 0.70% - 0.90%
Chromium 0.03%
Manganese 0.35% - 0.55%
Nickel 1.4% - 2.6%

and a couple other alloys.  I hope that slakes your curiosity, I've told you more than I know.

[Ada Shaker]

Ada Shaker, I seldom grind, but it does seem to harden the cutters.  I asked some knife makers about what could cause this.  I guess it's the rest of the link that cools the cutter.  When you grind a cutter it gets hot in a small area then the rest of the link cools it about like quinching it in water.

I couldn't find any information about steel alloy, but the knife makers told me it's likely an L alloy.  L-6 has this type of content
Carbon 0.70% - 0.90%
Chromium 0.03%
Manganese 0.35% - 0.55%
Nickel 1.4% - 2.6%

and a couple other alloys.  I hope that slakes your curiosity, I've told you more than I know.

Hi JohnW.
Yes it hard to fathom at times. It's very difficult finding specific information on the internet at times. I tried to find out what steel/alloy chain makers used for chainsaws chains and results can be varied. Anything from tungsten tipped to alloy/steel from what i can gather.
Each company tries to do it's own research i gather, another one of those intellectual property things i suppose. Just a quick search turned up a couple of steels but there are heaps and heaps out there. Chemical composition of steels are far and varied, just an example.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/steels.htm      (credit when credits due)

A-2 is an exceptional steel, with fine wear-resisting qualities plus excellent resistance to annealing and warping. Grinding is noticeably harder than 0-1 but not extremely difficult. Sawing is tougher and relates to the five percent of chrome in this steels chemical make up. Really nice to finish with the grinder and very little grain appearing in buffing. Excellent flexibility. Phil Hartsfield get incredible cutting ability out of this steel. Several other of the A series will also make fine blades.

D-2 offers another air hardening tool steel, but with 12% chrome and excellent, if not superb, wear resistance. The resistance also holds true in both sawing and grinding, even while the steel is fully annealed. While using belts up at a faster rate than  average, D-2 is not particularly hard to grind with fresh belts. Using old belts causes enough heat to work harden the steel. D-2 anneals at somewhat higher temperature than A-2 and will not take a true, mirror polish. Definitely a steel for the advanced craftsman.  It's major drawback is the orange peel appearance of the surface when finished to a high gloss. One knife maker is often quoted as saying that D-2 takes a lousy edge and holds it forever. Often found as surplus wood plainer blades. D-4 and D-7 are also good cutlery alloys, but darn hard to find in the right sizes. Air hardening steels can work harden while you're grinding them if you get the stock too hot. This doesn't mean much on the grinder, but when you try to file a guard notch, the file will just slide.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's important to remember that annealing is the opposite to hardening and both use a controlled heating and cooling process for optimum results, just general engineering thingamagiggy. Whats important to remember is that there are heaps of different alloys/steels out there with varying degrees of chemical and steel/elemental compositions. Spring copper to Bisalloy steel, different compositions of stainless even spring stainless steel, the mind just boggles. Many will harden at different rates but are generally quickly quenched in either oil>brine>or air. The only metal that i am aware of that generally or i've never seen hardened is mercury. I sometimes wonder if liquid nitrogen will do it or perhaps living in the Arctic. It'll be funny to see one of those Arctic chainsaws with a frozen mercury chain melt away when someone tried to use it, i think i read some mercury freezers around -38C so it is doable. Anyway, air cooling the cutters on a chainsaw chain to some extent is doable albeit a little variable if the correct alloy/steel is used in the first place, so pretty happy with that finding at the moment.
Now where did i put those old tungsten tooth saw blades and welder, i have some work to do..........

[SawyerBrown]

Not a real experienced chainsaw guy here ... I do mostly custom sawmilling, but I like to carry a chainsaw for trimming branches, sometimes cutting logs, etc.  I've got "fair" amount of experience with using them, but very minimal experience with sharpening, so apologize for the dumb questions and lack of the right terminology.

I've got a little Oregon sharpener that clamps to the bar and sets the 30-deg angle, with a round file.  I've also got a flat file and the depth gage.  Supposed to be "fool-proof" -- well, they didn't plan on me, I guess!   >:(

I've tried to follow the instructions, the cutters look sharp like shown in pictures previously in this post, and feel nice and sharp, when I'm done, and I've set the depth and rounded the leading edge of the depth teeth (probably not the right description).  But it still won't cut worth a DanG.  Won't pull nice big chips like you'd expect from a good sharp cutter.  The chain I'm trying to sharpen is an older green "safety" chain.  I put my new "yellow" chain on and the it really goes to town (love it!). 

Any suggestions?  I just don't even know what to try next.

[John Mc]

Are you just getting a bunch of fine sawdust? 

If your teeth are sharp, it sounds as though you may have a problem with the depth gauge (aka "raker") height. What kind of tool are you using to measure the height of your depth gauges? Are you sure it's the appropriate measuring device for the pitch of chain you are using? Also, I've heard some of the measuring tools will not work well with the green safety chain (I don't use that style of chain, so I can't tell you for sure).

[HolmenTree]

Haven't heard from Ada Shaker for a while now.....interesting post 3 up on this page about his hardening and compensition of chain theories.
I remember reading about Windsor sawchain back in the early 1970s first adding nickel to their cutter tooth  alloy.
I have an interest in nickel as the town I live in has one of the worlds largest nickel mines.
The town and mine came to be in the 1950s from a new market as the U.S.was stockpiling nickle during the Korean War.
The mine has been producing this metal ever since.

[Jhenderson]

The steel in the cutter is not very hard. If it was you couldn't file it. It would have to be ground. The hard chrome plate on the tooth helps keep the edge. If you look closely at a chain that has been rocked you'll see that the chrome is peeled off as far as the tooth has lost its shape. If you don't sharpen all the way back to good chrome the edge fails almost immediately.

[SawyerBrown]

Are you just getting a bunch of fine sawdust? 

If your teeth are sharp, it sounds as though you may have a problem with the depth gauge (aka "raker") height. What kind of tool are you using to measure the height of your depth gauges? Are you sure it's the appropriate measuring device for the pitch of chain you are using? Also, I've heard some of the measuring tools will not work well with the green safety chain (I don't use that style of chain, so I can't tell you for sure).

Yup, finer sawdust (more like the band mill) and it's really slow.  Doesn't "bite" like a good chain does.  The gauge is also made by Oregon, it's maybe 4-5 inches long, got a channel that sits on top of the cutters, and an indented slot that lets the raker (thanks for the right term!) stick through.  You're supposed to file off the raker even with the top of the slot, and then round the leading edge of the raker(s).  Good question on whether it's the right tool for the pitch of chain!  -- Didn't know there was a difference!  May have to see if they say anything about that.  Could get a picture if that would help.

Thanks for the advice!

[beenthere]

In the meantime, use the yellow chain.  ;D

I have the Oregon guide that clamps to the bar, and found it takes a trained eye and good know-how about chain sharpening to get all the combined angles adjusted just right to use the thing. I don't use it as it is too slow and takes too much tinkering to set it up.

The file guide that is hand held and clamps a file (make sure it is the correct diameter for the chain) in the holder is best, I think, for new filers to use.

I now use the Pferd Husqvarna jig to file my 3/8 chain.

[John Mc]

SawyerBrown - I'm not a fan of the raker filing tool you describe, since it doesn't really "customize" the raker for the tooth with which it's associated. It sort of "averages" that raker between a couple of teeth - which works if your teeth are all identical, but not so hot if some have been filed more than others. It also tends to not give you the right height as you get the teeth filed back a lot. (I doubt that the lack of "customization" is related to your problem, however.)

The one that you see hanging off the bottom of the blue jig that Beenthere showed works better IF it fits on a green safety chain (I've never tried it). Some folks here on the Forestry Forum (including me) refer to this as a "progressive" depth gauge tool, since it adjusts the height of the rakers differently as the tooth is filed back further.  I use another style of depth gauge tool which is also progressive (sold by Husqvarna):
   

Note that the progressive style tools MUST be matched to the pitch of the chain.

I'm not sure if your raker heights are the problem, but that is one of the things that can cause a chain to produce dust instead of chips. If your chain is the type with the large "bumper links" in between each tooth as in the photo below, is it possible those bumper links are interefering with how your depth gauge tool is supposed to work?